Star Wars Discussion Thread

3,177,313 Views | 30672 Replies | Last: 9 hrs ago by TCTTS
TCTTS
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Forgot about Cloverfield (though, he only produced, didn't direct).
redline248
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How's he going to work slusho into star wars?
TCTTS
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Best Supporting Actress winner Lupita Nyong'o looks to be up for a role. The Hollywood Reporter says it might that of a descendant of Obi-Wan, while Latino Review say they've heard it might be a Sith. Either one works for me, as she was phenomenal in 12 Years a Slave...

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/lupita-nyongo-meets-jj-abrams-688787

http://latino-review.com/2014/03/exclusive-oscar-winner-close-star-wars-episode-vii/
Brian Earl Spilner
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redline248
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AG
quote:
de·scend·ant
diˈsendənt/Submit
noun
1.
a person, plant, or animal that is descended from a particular ancestor


Not possible for anyone to be a descendant of Obi-Wan as he has no offspring. Long lost great nephew or something, ok, I guess. Although, I think there is enough nepotism in Star Wars already.
TCTTS
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quote:
Not possible for anyone to be a descendant of Obi-Wan as he has no offspring.


How is it not possible? There was an entire 25 or so year period between Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope where we have no record or account of what he did or didn't do. He could have had 13 illegitimate Tatooine children for all we know. The Jedi were essentially wiped out, their way of life destroyed. Thus, there was technically no longer a rule saying he had to remain celibate post-Episode III. Knowing that character, I seriously doubt he would have anyway.

I'm in 100% agreement about the nepotism thing, but, if anything, it would be a great reason to have to revisit Tatooine again, which I'm not against. In fact, I'd kind of love it if we got even a sentence or two expanding on Obi-Wan and his life just before Luke showed up again. Maybe he had some honey in town who never got the chance to give a proper goodbye. Maybe she never got to tell him she was pregnant. Any number of scenarios could have gone down.

If Luke can have a kid in Episode VII, then Obi-Wan most definitely could have had a kid, even if he didn't know about it, pre-A New Hope.
benMath08
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The Jedi being celibate was one of Lucas' dumber ideas, I hope they reverse that like they did in the EU.
redline248
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You said it yourself, Obi-Wan wouldn't have done it. If you want to be technical, though, yes it's possible, unless he had the snip snip.

As to Jedi celibacy being dumb...look what happened to Anakin.
TCTTS
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quote:
You said it yourself, Obi-Wan wouldn't have done it.


"Thus, there was technically no longer a rule saying he had to remain celibate post-Episode III. Knowing that character, I seriously doubt he would have anyway."

Meaning, I doubt he would have [remained celibate] anyway.
redline248
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Why? I think it was pretty clear that he was still rigid in the Jedi teachings he followed his entire life. Not to mention Yoda gave him a mission to watch over Luke and to train so he could come back as a force ghost. He didn't have time for no wimmens.

[This message has been edited by redline248 (edited 3/15/2014 1:14a).]
Aggie_Journalist
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A direct descendent of Obi-Wan seems pretty out of character to me, but a grand niece or a clone wouldn't shock me one bit.
MuckRaker96
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im going to be really disappointed if they make somebody Ben Kenobi's kid.
benMath08
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quote:
As to Jedi celibacy being dumb...look what happened to Anakin.

Bad writing?

Also, the reason jedi aren't celibate in the EU is because a lot of the storylines were begun before the prequels were released. There's nothing in the original trilogy that points to jedi being celibate. The only two jedi we met were old and forced into exile.

[This message has been edited by benMath08 (edited 3/15/2014 10:38a).]
AliasMan02
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Re: the use of relatives of classic characters...

One thing that I always thought Lucas fundamentally misunderstood about his world, and the appeal of Star Wars, is that he seems to think that people are all caught up in specific characters, particularly Luke, Leia, and Han.

I don't think that to be the case at all. If he (or now Disney) would focus on showcasing the setting and using it to tell great stories, that's all they need to do to be successful. Shoehorning in familiar characters only weakens the property.
redline248
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I agree to an extent. I do think that the story for these new movies can't be just random stories of people getting by in a galaxy far far away. They have to deal with the aftermath of the Empire's fall. They also have to deal with Luke passing on the Jedi way. New characters dealing with those major points is fine, though.
Ganondorf
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I believe it to be unlikely that Obi-Wan had children. If he decided he should have one or many he'd know they exist.

He states in the movies that Luke is their last hope (Yoda implies Leia as well) and Obi-Wan would know if his children were others who could save the Jedi way.

There's the possibility of him getting some random strange in Mos Eisley though it is unlikely because of Obi-Wan being a moral and honorable individual. He wouldn't be a dead beat dad and making him into one would be a huge slap in the face to the character.
BillOnCapitolHill
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Luke/Leia being there only hope does not mean there arent other Force sensitive people out there (including Obi-wan's offspring, if they exist). The Emp said himself "the son of Skywalker would be a powerful ally" why? Well there must be something unique about that bloodline.


You cant tell me in the hundreds of billions of sentient beings in the SW galaxy that the Force only resides in six people (5 of them human) between Ep4 & Ep6.

[This message has been edited by BillOnCapitolHill (edited 3/16/2014 12:57p).]
redline248
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Bill the discussion is not about if there are other force sensitive people, it's about whether it's likely obi-wan had children.
BillOnCapitolHill
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quote:
Bill the discussion is not about if there are other force sensitive people, it's about whether it's likely obi-wan had children.


I get that, but I'm saying one cannot use yoda/ben's discussion of Luke and leia being able to end Vader as an argument against the possibility of Ben having kids
benMath08
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It's also possible he could have non-force sensitive children, although I don't think that would make for a good Star Wars storyline. After all, if it were a dominant trait I think there would be quite a few more Jedi out there.
TCTTS
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Good, quick little article about everything we know so far...

http://badassdigest.com/2014/03/16/this-is-everything-we-officially-know-about-star-wars-episode-vii
Ganondorf
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I didn't see in that article where it states there are 250% more lens flares than the original movies. Not sure I can trust this source.
double aught
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I do hope he keeps the screen wipes.
MuckRaker96
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I just wish they'd announce ANYTHING official at this point.
Ulrich
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Obi-Wan Kenobi represents the last vestige of the dead Old Republic and Jedi Order, hanging on by his fingernails in a hostile, dead environment before eventually succumbing. As such, it does not make thematic sense to show him having kids, and his character was written to make that very clear in Ep IV and in the prequels. It's inconceivable (pun intended) that the lonely old man of Ep IV faithfully fulfilling a duty given to him decades ago would have taken time out to bonk a waitress without shielding his reactor, so to speak. It's equally hard to believe that the exceedingly principled, unbending young man of the prequels would have taken a day off from following the rules.

It's not literally impossible that he could have had a kid, but referring to a Kenobi kid would turn his whole character on its ear and knock the theme off. Star Wars was initially great because even when the plot was complicated, the motivations and characters were stark and easy to recognize. Why throw mud in the water?

Luke and Leia are the symbols of renewal and hope. If you're going to use children of characters in the previous movies, they should be Luke and/or Leia's children, although the Star Wars universe is already inbred enough that I'd rather see new characters take off.

Or we could just pull a Lucas and add a Star Trek by saying that Padme actually had triplets but the third one went through a worm hole at some point and is now conveniently 18.
TCTTS
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Wow, I had no idea people were THIS adamant about Obi-Wan not having a kid. I get where you guys are coming from, to an extent. Still, it seems like some of you are taking this oath more seriously than any fictional character ever did.

All I'm saying is, I doubt he just sat in his hut in the desert all damn day for 25 straight years. Obi-Wan "faithfully fulfilling his duty" of watching over Luke didn't require 24-hour surveillance. Nor was he an "old man" that entire span. Honestly, in my opinion, it'd be kind of sweet (as in "awww") if Obi-Wan actually had a little fling at some point. I feel bad the for the guy. After all the sh*t he went through, after the sacrifice he made to keep an eye on Luke from afar, I wouldn't begrudge him for actually having a relationship at some point. Even if for a night. Especially if there was an interesting little story surrounding it.

I totally agree about how inbred the SW universe already is. At this point, for the most part, all I want to see are new characters. But if some granddaughter of Obi-Wan happens to show up, and she's a cool character, and maybe even gives us a reason to revisit Tatooine again (if only briefly), I'm not going to freak out that a Jedi actually had sex forty five years ago, after his entire way of life was destroyed.

[This message has been edited by TCTTS (edited 3/17/2014 1:56a).]
TCTTS
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Also, why is it ok for Luke to have a kid and not Obi-Wan? I get that Obi-Wan represented the last of the Jedi Order and all that. But how is Luke's situation really any different? Granted, he was never part of the Order, but as the last remaining Jedi, was it not MORE important for him to have cling to their way of life in order to preserve it? As a Jedi, should he too not be honoring their rules?

Personally, when we meet him again, I'm kind of hoping Luke has left that part of his life in the past, for the most part, but that we then see him (maybe even begrudgingly) have to "resurrect" the Jedi at some point in the face of a new threat. In that scenario, I can totally see him having laxed and perhaps started a family. But if he's still a Jedi at the outset of Episode VII, and he has a kid, I hope everyone who's b*tching about Obi-Wan potentially having a kid (/grandkid) is equally up in arms.

[This message has been edited by TCTTS (edited 3/17/2014 2:22a).]
ChipFTAC01
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Something I never thought about, but Obi Wan sure does age a lot in the 20 years between III and IV. He goes from a young bearded Ewan McGregor to an old Alec Guiness.
el aggie
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Two suns will do that to a guy. Uncle Owen was 37 when he died.
redline248
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TCTTS, Obi-Wan and Luke are not the same kind of Jedi. As Ulrich said, Obi-Wan was part of the old order and was always rigid in the core beliefs. He couldn't even bend enough to help out Anakin when he needed it most. All he could do was say "trust the council," even though I think he knew Anakin needed more.

Luke comes along as a teen in the middle of the war and the only thing Obi-Wan or Yoda care about is teaching him how to use the force, beware the dark side and be able to defeat the emperor and pass on the Jedi knowledge. It's also possible Yoda realized forbidding family and romance could really drive Jedi in the wrong direction.
redline248
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I just read tctts's post about Luke again. It's like you don't understand star wars at all, or never paid attention. "Luke, when gone I am last of the Jedi you will be. Pass on what you have learned."

And you hope Luke just goes, "meh" and moves on to something else? At this point, debating with you is pointless.

[This message has been edited by redline248 (edited 3/17/2014 9:12a).]
Ulrich
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TCTTS, are you a Star Wars person? I'm having a hard time even understanding where you are coming from.

Luke is emblematic of the new Jedi. The old Jedi fell exactly because they were largely hidebound, rule-following mystics, philosophically cloistered in their temple. Obi-Wan embodies that mindset. The Jedi are reborn in Luke with nothing but the very basics. They are free to forge ahead in any way that seems best. Again, it's the theme of rebirth. That's why Star Wars people don't automatically reject the idea of a Skywalker child, but have a much more difficult time with the idea of Kenobi having a child.

Again, I'm not saying Obi-Wan literally never could have had a kid in the 20 years of exile (although I think it's fairly unlikely that he spent much time in town since he is introduced as an old hermit wizard), but for the sake of storytelling and specifically of maintaining what clarity and consistency is left, I would avoid muddying up his character. It's possible that it could be done well, but there are better ways to get back to Tatooine.

[This message has been edited by Ulrich (edited 3/17/2014 9:16a).]
Aggie_Journalist
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quote:
Also, why is it ok for Luke to have a kid and not Obi-Wan?


I don't know about the others, but I hope we don't get any children of Luke as part of the story.

Luke not having kids allows him to be a better "wise old man," because when you think about it, how many "wise old men" had kids of their own they were worried about? (Gandalf'? Dumbledore? Yoda? Obi-Wan? Merlin?) it's out of character because we all know parents aren't perfect, so the mere notion of providing him a child strips him of some of that reverent knowledge.

quote:
Personally, when we meet him again, I'm kind of hoping Luke has left that part of his life in the past, for the most part, but that we then see him (maybe even begrudgingly) have to "resurrect" the Jedi at some point in the face of a new threat.


I'm kind of hoping the story focuses on Han and Leia's kids getting sucked up into a big adventure, with references to how nobody's seen Uncle Luke since before they were born because he's off trying to learn all the Jedi stuff Yoda and Obi-Wan didn't get a chance to teach him. Then, at some pivotal moment when the kids seem toast, Luke shows up and saves them in a nod to Obi-Wan's mysterious arrival in the original flick, then takes them under his wing.

Of course, I'm also hoping EP VII climaxes with the bad guys launching a massive attack on Couroscant that cripples the republic and kills Han and Leia, throwing a huge moral dilemma into the Jedi development of their kids, who will be VERY tempted to turn to the dark side to avenge their parents (and provide an out for not having to constantly explain where Han and Leia are at).

[This message has been edited by Aggie_journalist (edited 3/17/2014 10:59a).]
Brian Earl Spilner
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quote:
Of course, I'm also hoping EP VII climaxes with the bad guys launching a massive attack on Couroscant that cripples the republic and kills Han and Leia


Sounds pretty badass.
YouBet
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AG
I bet Kenobi was tearing up female Jawas all across the Dune Sea. Maybe he has a half human-half Jawa offspring hidden away in Beggars Canyon with Force powers.
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