I had a glimmer of hope at the end for Richard for about a second. I really wanted him to make it.

Poor Richard. We as the audience love him and know he has a good heart. However, when you really think about all of the wrong he has done, it could not have ended any other way. At least he saved the boy.

I wonder if there is a deleted scene out there showing the end of Chalky & Nucky's conversation. Maybe something they considered using as a flashback but scrapped. Not sure Chalky even fully realizes what happened at the club, though I suspect he knows his daughter was just caught in the cross-fire.

Jack Huston said it himself: "Tragic characters have to die tragically. And that's how you keep them in your heart forever."

Per http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/latest-boardwalk-empire-casualty-speaks-about-season-4-finale

Jimmy, Owen, Richard - this show is tough on likeable tough-guys.

Was anyone watching with close-captioning to hear what Dr. Narcisse said to Hoover before turning and saying "yes, sir"?

I guess Nucky telling Willie to meet him back at the Albatross means he's not moving to Cuba with Sally Fangs. And next season, he should be in good with Massaria, Lucky, Meyer and the Tampa guy since he presumably tipped them off about the bust that Eli set up.

The Eli / Nucky scene was one of the most intense in the whole series, but overall the episode seemed a little lacking for a season finale.

Are we to assume that Eli is being exiled or killed?

I was never a fan of Owen but losing Richard really sucks.

Owen's sappy love story with Margaret aside, he was a stone-cold bad arse.

I think Eli is being exiled to Chicago, and being provided to Capone as muscle as repayment for his help in the Gyp war.

His WTF face upon seeing Van Alden was awesome.

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but overall the episode seemed a little lacking for a season finale.

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some people will just never be satisfied

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but overall the episode seemed a little lacking for a season finale.

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[This message has been edited by Sex Panther (edited 11/25/2013 11:52a).]

Explanation - the majority of the episode dealt with the closure of the life of Richard. While he is no doubt one of the most interesting and beloved characters in the series, he is still a bit player in the overall story. That's not season finale material.

Further - the Narcisse / Chalky battle, which is the stuff of finales, ended without resolution.


That's why I said it was lacking in some respects. Still enjoyed it, just wish it could have been two hours to finish more things up.

HTown, I get what you are saying, but perhaps you are thinking that the "resolution" you are seeking on a show such as this always ends with one of the guys dead.

The Chalky/Narcisse storyline has legs. I can't wait to see where they take it next season. I am happy they chose not to finish it with this season's new bad guy being taken down in the finale (like Gyp).

I loved this episode and this season as a whole.

Thoughts:

1. Eli - His only real flaw is that he isn't as smart as Nucky. But, who is? So happy to see him live on. I've never really understood his obsession with Nucky, especially listening to him tell Knox about growing up in a house with no food and newspaper for sheets. Eli now has a nice house, loving family, etc, and just can't enjoy it because he isn't the people reader/manipulator/genius that Nucky is.

2. Richard - Accidentally killing Chalky's daughter took the last of his humanity. Remember a hunting scene in the woods in season 1 when he nearly took his own life? He came from "The War" mostly dead inside, and all of his dirty work over the course of the show killed what was left. I took his last scene with a full face to mean that he was finally at peace (or even in heaven).

3. Knox - An overrated replacement for Van Alden (in my mind). He was in somewhat over his head dealing with Eli, let alone Nucky. Loved watching him die.

4. Narcisse - I don't that the writers have decided what to do with him. Presumably, him ratting for the FBI would necessitate spending most of his time in NYC?

5. Chalky - I loved this character. He was such a stone cold gangster. Remember him cutting off the klansman's finger in season one as part of an interrogation? I think that a big piece of him died with his daughter. I hope to see him back, maybe even fighting Narcisse for him club, but I think that he is going to spend his remaining days lamenting his losses.

6. Capone/Van Alden/Chicago - I've avoided reading mob history as this has played out. I was disappointed in the lack of development/screen time for Van Alden this season. His double-murder scene was one of the best scenes of the season. I can't say anything about Capone that hasn't been said 20 times in this thread. Stephen Graham might be the best actor in this series.

I am convinced that this is being setup for next season to be the final one, thus the loose ends left at the end of this season.

Finally caught up so I can get on this thread.

Question - who the heck is the couple that has temporary custody of Tommy??? I feel like I should know who they are, but it seems like they just came out of nowhere a few episodes back.
I really didn't pay attention to them, thinking they were just background character foster parents or something. Then suddenly Richard marries the lady out of the blue and I realized I guess I need to figure them out.

Who are they??

for real?

@AgKJ

I'm not really sure exactly who they are. I'm sure someone will fill you in.

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Knox - An overrated replacement for Van Alden (in my mind). He was in somewhat over his head dealing with Eli, let alone Nucky. Loved watching him die.

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I definitely liked seeing him die, although geez it was brutal. But I didn't think he was overrated at all. I thought that guy killed the role, he was phenomenal.


Johnny Torrio... so I guess he didn't set up Capone? I know I definitely thought he did. So who shot him? And if he really did survive that, then that is one tough old gangster.


Richard Harrow... damn. Just damn.

I think that Johnny Torrio is the one who tried to take out Capone. When he was gunned down, he knew that Capone was on to him and decided to retire and give everything to Capone rather than get into a gangland war... that he would likely lose.

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I definitely liked seeing him die, although geez it was brutal. But I didn't think he was overrated at all. I thought that guy killed the role, he was phenomenal.


Johnny Torrio... so I guess he didn't set up Capone? I know I definitely thought he did. So who shot him? And if he really did survive that, then that is one tough old gangster.


Richard Harrow... damn. Just damn.

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The handling of Torio and Capone was consistent with history. Torio was Capone's mentor. He lives on in retirement.

I think Torrio was the target of the machine gunning of the brothel, not Capone, even though Capone (and the audience) wondered about the timing of Torrio's departure. Then the same crew hit Torrio at home when they were unsuccessful. They discussed who it was at the table (a Catholic who shortened his name to appear to be a Jew).

Eli will always have something over Van Alden since he knows who he is/was. It will be interesting to see how that will play out, and whether Eli is smart enough to use that leverage in a meaningful way. In any event, Al, VA and Eli working together to take over Chicago should be great.

Seems that the next move from the Narcisse-Hoover teaming will be to pin Chalky with Knox's murder. Hoover said he wanted someone to blame, didn't really care who. Eli isn't interesting enough for Hoover.

[This message has been edited by Deadwood (edited 11/25/2013 4:18p).]

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Question - who the heck is the couple that has temporary custody of Tommy??? I feel like I should know who they are, but it seems like they just came out of nowhere a few episodes back.
I really didn't pay attention to them, thinking they were just background character foster parents or something. Then suddenly Richard marries the lady out of the blue and I realized I guess I need to figure them out.

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The couple is Richard's wife and father-in-law. He met the FIL at a VFW event and later fell in love with his daughter. She is who he brought Tommy to at the end of last year after he rescued him from the brothel. She's been fighting Gillian for custody all year long.

AgKJ, lolwut???

Anyone notice that Knox was basically a synonym for Melvin Purvis (who Hoover drummed out of the FBI)?

I loved Knox too. Great acting as we watched him slowly lose it all over a case where he was right he just couldnt prove it.

Chalky is honestly boring me. The whole story line with Daughter is a complete powerdown. The Doctor is a pretty good character but not anything special. I do like that he is in bed with the FBI.

The more Capone and Van Alden the better. Those two (along with Knox and Harrow) were the best things going in that season.

I like Shea Willingham but that dude just cant wear a hat. Its hard for me to take him seriously when his lid is way too big for his head.

Thanks, now I remember Richard meeting the f-in-law at the VFW thing and all the rest. Just completely forgot - this is why I'm better at watching shows on Netflix marathons with multiple seasons in a row. Take 6 months off and I don't remember a lot of crap.

While the storyline with Chalky is not my favorite, I think the actor playing him has done an outstanding job this season.

F***.......

Rest well, Richard

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I loved Knox too. Great acting as we watched him slowly lose it all over a case where he was right he just couldnt prove it.

Chalky is honestly boring me. The whole story line with Daughter is a complete powerdown. The Doctor is a pretty good character but not anything special. I do like that he is in bed with the FBI.

The more Capone and Van Alden the better. Those two (along with Knox and Harrow) were the best things going in that season.

I like Shea Willingham but that dude just cant wear a hat. Its hard for me to take him seriously when his lid is way too big for his head.

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Who is Shea Willingham?

He plays Eli

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I loved Knox too. Great acting as we watched him slowly lose it all over a case where he was right he just couldnt prove it.

Chalky is honestly boring me. The whole story line with Daughter is a complete powerdown. The Doctor is a pretty good character but not anything special. I do like that he is in bed with the FBI.

The more Capone and Van Alden the better. Those two (along with Knox and Harrow) were the best things going in that season.

I like Shea Willingham but that dude just cant wear a hat. Its hard for me to take him seriously when his lid is way too big for his head.

Who is Shea Willingham?

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Actor playing Know was the kid from The Sopranos episode who is shot in the foot in the Bakery for being rude to Christopher.

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I like Shea Willingham but that dude just cant wear a hat.

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I have no opinion on this, but the wardrobe in this series has consistently been incredible. I might actually wear a suit every now and then if they looked that great today.

Oh, and the sets. They're every bit the equal of the wardrobe. I miss Babette's though.



Can you imagine how much fun it would have been to go to one of those clubs and get loaded during prohibition?!?

well for the non-mob history readers...that whole "godfather" prediction was never going to happen.

And no, torrio didn't set up Al. They definitely used the "idea" of that being possible for the sake of tension leading to the next week and for those who don't know the history but the original hit that he "walked away" from just prior to was for him, and the assassination attempt in the finale from Obanions crew were meant for him. Actually, I've been extremely impressed with how they've stayed true to history in regards to the major parts of the side characters that are playing characters based on completely real gangsters from the past.

I loved the finale.

Oh, and looking back at early posts...

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posted 9:32a, 09/23/13this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



Eli's son is going to slowly become a badass smooth gangster youth, much like a young Nucky. It will serve as the ultimate foil between Nucky and Eli, and the son will work for Nuck in the future.

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that was my post, which still looks completely on schedule as far as the arc of Will

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Wonder where they're going with the Eli's son storyline...Maybe something to do with the FBI guy using the kid to get into the family?

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And Stive posted this at almost the same exact time.

Blended and good calls by us there.

[This message has been edited by Bunk Moreland (edited 11/25/2013 11:21p).]

HBO needs a spin off, Chicago Empire just to follow Al, VA and Eli. I would watch the crap out of that.

Man this show has a habit of killing off my favorite characters.

gonna miss this sniper


[This message has been edited by Aggie Infantry (edited 11/26/2013 8:59a).]

[This message has been edited by Aggie Infantry (edited 11/26/2013 8:59a).]

Interview with Winter about the finale:

http://www.vulture.com/m/2013/11/boardwalk-empire-terence-winter-season-four-finale-interview.html