I'd say just a single rock.

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don't know why they are all so afraid of her.

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I don't know if it was that they're afraid of her, so much as there's little benefit to standing up to her. I'm sure a lot of them wanted to take her to the finals, knowing nobody would vote for her. in addition, getting into a blow up with her probably only puts more of a target on your back, so why take that chance? there'll be plenty of time to tell her off, if you need to do so. they may all be *******, but even if they weren't, it'd still not be very smart to tell her off, unless you knew it would curry favor with others.

Naonka said on her Rob has a podcast postgame interview that she had recently decided that her final three was her, Fabio and Dan. I wouldn't have been surprised if she would have stuck around if a) they could have pulled it off, b) it would have made for a fairly interesting final three. Those are maybe the only two that Dan could beat, Naonka could beat and probably Fabio could beat. By working from within two different alliances they could have probably manipulated it to even get themselves there.

Could've been interesting.

fabio would have won that one in a landslide.

Of the players left, Fabio is playing as good a game as anybody. Jane's playing a step above (which has the biggest target on her back), Dan's playing a step below, but Fabio, Holly, Benry, Chase, and Sash are playing equal games right there in the middle. Don't know why he's collecting so much hate. He doesn't seem so much complately dumb as he is unable to articulate very eloquently.

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fabio would have won that one in a landslide.

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I agree, but it was probably a best case scenario for both Nay and Dan.

Na is this season's weak attempt at being Russell. Only she wasn't as smart, devious or physical. She was just an a-hole like Russ, which means she would have been a great goat to take to final tribal. She was no threat to anyone to actually win any votes.

I don't think the two have anything in common.

Russell, as much as he misunderstood the game, at least kind of got parts of it.

She's given no indication she understands this game in any way.

the 2 are completely different.

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Na is this season's weak attempt at being Russell

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I couldn't disagree more. The only thing these two had in common is by the end of the game they had made everyone mad.

He was great at MOST of the gameplay aspects. She sucked at the "game".

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He was great at MOST of the gameplay aspects, except for the part that mattered the MOST.

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Haven't had this fun discussion in awhile.

Also, after this craptastic season, I am warming up more and more to the alleged Rob vs. Russell gimmick.

[This message has been edited by 20ag07 (edited 12/8/2010 11:22a).]

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He was great at MOST of the gameplay aspects, except for the part that mattered the MOST.

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Russell not winning his season shows the flaw in letting other contestants vote for the winner. any person with integrity would have voted russell to win.

honestly, if the final 2 this year had ended up naokana and dan, would any one really think dan was a good player because people hated naonka?

not sure there is a better method for determining the winner though.

[This message has been edited by BMX Bandit (edited 12/8/2010 12:42p).]

I think a better mechanism is to include everybody who was on the show, not just the last half. They'd tend to be less emotional about it.

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Russell not winning his season shows the flaw in letting other contestants vote for the winner. any person with integrity would have voted russell to win.

honestly, if the final 2 this year had ended up naokana and dan, would any one really think dan was a good player because people hated naonka?

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OH NO.....NOT THIS AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I think a better mechanism is to include everybody who was on the show, not just the last half. They'd tend to be less emotional about it.

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Players before the merge haven't played with all the players though- there are some at the other camp that they never interacted with. What are they supposed to do- vote based on the same edited crap we see that doesn't tell 1/10th of the story?

There's nothing wrong with the so-called "emotional voting". Part of the genius of the game is that you must evict people while still leaving them wanting to award you $1M. The only effect of letting scorned players decide the verdict is that you can't evict people while being an ahole about it. I'm just fine with aholes who can't even manage to fake not being an ahole not becoming millionaires.

[This message has been edited by 20ag07 (edited 12/8/2010 2:39p).]

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Players before the merge haven't played with all the players though- there are some at the other camp that they never interacted with.

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Didn't last season have players on the jury who didn't make the merge? Or the season before?

1 or 2 slip through since they move the merge around just depending on when it makes the most sense for production, storywise. Never more than 2 players, which really isn't enough to have any impact. If you were going to let all 20 players vote, you'd be letting someone who was there for 3 days potentially vote for a winner on the other tribe. The first few people voted out don't know anything more about these players than we do as viewers.

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Didn't last season have players on the jury who didn't make the merge? Or the season before?

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This might have happened before, but I don't remember it. What HAS happened multiple times is people that made the merge didn't make it on to the jury. But I'm not sure it's ever happended where people made the jury before the merge.

Pretty sure Coach and someone else made the jury pre-merge.

It's happened on 5 of the 20 seasons (Coach and Courney in All Stars). All on later seasons after they got better at using the merger to drive the storylines. They were a lot more honest in the early seasons before reality TV really exploded.

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There's nothing wrong with the so-called "emotional voting". Part of the genius of the game is that you must evict people while still leaving them wanting to award you $1M. The only effect of letting scorned players decide the verdict is that you can't evict people while being an ahole about it.

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This isn't genius. It's a flaw that makes the final a disappointment far too often. It causes people, who don't do a damn thing all game long, to go way farther in the game than they deserve.

It's only a flaw if you think a player like Russell, who ignores the most important part of the game, should win because he was pretty funny and did a bunch of crazy ****.

It's a social game. I'm not watching to see who can live off rice the best or who can orchestrate the most ousters while being non-threatening enough to remain to the end.

i love it when aTm ag confuses his opinion with fact.
tell us again how russell is the greatest ever.

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It's only a flaw if you think a player like Russell, who ignores the most important part of the game, should win because he was pretty funny and did a bunch of crazy ****.

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It's a flaw because Popularity contests are boring as hell. Compare this season to last season. This thread is full of people talking about how boring this season is. Last season, that thread was full of people saying how it was the best season ever. People want to see people win rather than people not lose.

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It's a social game. I'm not watching to see who can live off rice the best or who can orchestrate the most ousters while being non-threatening enough to remain to the end.

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Apparently you are watching who can just hide in the shadows and do nothing until the very end. Yeah that's real fun there.

Even though I didn't like the idea, I can see why the show is considering bringing back Russell and Rob back for a 3rd round. At least that is fun to watch.

I don't like a popularity contest- I like seeing the person who understands the game the best play it and win it. The most popular player always has a target on their back. The game is about assessing the playing field and putting yourself in the best position to win in that playing field. Making sure there is always someone ahead of you who is perceived as a bigger threat. After every elimination, the playing field changes and you have to react again. Survivor is a game about luck and reacting to the luck you're dealt. This season is boring because most of the interesting players (Jimmy Johnson, Brenda) folded when they were dealt a bad situation. Because they folded, they got the boot.

The best player may be one who hides in the shadows in the group (because they can), but is completely interesting in the confessionals. Even if the rest of the cast thinks you're dumb, show us you aren't in confessionals. And make sure that at the time is right you show enough of the jury that you aren't dumb and passive. It's a very nuanced game, and that's what makes it fascinating.

There's no template for the "winner". The winner is what the people playing the game determine it is. And that's what ultimately makes the show interesting.

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Compare this season to last season. This thread is full of people talking about how boring this season is.

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last season was great because there were a number of captivating personalities and a lot of game play. of course, people like game play...nobody's saying otherwise...but as other's have said, *******s generally don't win. so don't be an *******. if you're an *******, then you better hope the jury values that (or values other qualities you have more than that). but it's up to each player to read the jury and figure out how to best play the game. if you can't read a room, you deserve to lose.

For next weeks preview did Jeff say "The losers will be taken...and executed" ??

So much stupidity on tonight's episode. Chase's reward decision and benry jumping ship like a rat. I thought it was hilarious when Benry got voted out.

chase's reward decision seemed stupid when made, but how did it turn out? pretty good for him.

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For next weeks preview did Jeff say "The losers will be taken...and executed" ??

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yes.

so beginning speculation, which players are going to get executed? I'm guessing it'll probably be Fabio, Jane and Dan. Has anyone seen these people since the season was shot? Too bad for their families that they died on a reality show, but the show is called "Survivor"...

Probst gets it better than some people around here...

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I think Sash is doing one thing very well and it’s a key to his success: Sash is doing a good job of consistently making his best move based on the assumption that everybody else is going to make their best move. It’s a simple concept but a very good way to play Survivor.

It doesn’t always work. Many times players are too stupid to make their best move, so instead they just…oh, quit for example or make an otherwise ridiculous move. When they do that it screws up the game for somebody who is playing with a decent strategy. But it’s still the best way to play the game. In fact, it’s the only way to play the game. You have to assume that everybody is going to make their best move and then you have to make your move based on that assumed move. Did I just repeat myself? Then it must be important.

My biggest surprise at this point in the game is that nobody is trying to flush the idol from Sash. It’s such a powerful weapon and he’s had it for so long. Then again, even with all this going for him, Sash will have a hard time winning the game because at the end of the day it’s about likability and as discussed earlier, I’m not yet convinced Sash has earned enough good will to pull it out.

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http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/12/09/jeff-probst-blogs-survivornicaragua-episode-13/

weird that Probst would defend a flaw in a game he has a financial stake in. you would think he would be pointing out any and all problems.

It's not a flaw. The game is about voting people out and still getting them to vote for you to win.