I think Ron Murkundy is on the right path with that one.

And Judge is right too.

***SPOILERS***





I just saw Inception for the second time and I think I may have figured it out. I want to preface my idea with the following: The catch to this is like the catch to Memento and The Prestige, both of which are Nolan's.

Of course, at the end of Inception we are left in the dark. The top is still spinning BUT if you notice it is beginning to wobble and is making a more coarse sound than originally when it first started spinning which could indicate that it was about to slow its spinning. That aside, we are still left in the dark. BUT, here is where my preface leads.

Many people assume Cobb was simply in limbo at the end, but that is not so. When he is with Saito when Saito is old they kill each other or it is a murder/suicide but it isn't shown, just assumed. I think this happen as the film leads us to believe and they are actually thrust back into reality. Remember, Cobb said to Ariadne that he had to stay to get Saito out, which means that he knew how to get out of limbo from being there with Mal before.

There has been much speculation as to whether or not Cobb's reality was actually a dream or not but this is my contention that it was actually reality: If it were a dream, Mal would have appeared like she did in nearly all of the other dreams, be they his or other people's dreams, because like he said earlier in the movie, no one can control their subconscious. If, in fact, what he believed was reality was actually a dream, Mal would have appeared there from his subconscious, which she did not. At the end of the film he is in his home and sees his children and Mal is NOT there.

I understand that the children are wearing the same clothes in the final scene as they are every time he sees them when they appear from his subconscious and this is a point of confusion. But you have to remember, the limbo he knew was eroding and he stayed there until it was destroyed and he was put into Saito's limbo where they killed themselves and went back into reality. This is the best explanation I can give, but I think Mal's lack of presence in reality proves that Cobb was not dreaming and it was, in fact, real.

Nolan, as we have seen in Memento and The Prestige likes to leave you wondering, but as he has said in interviews, the answer is the most obvious thing in the movie, but it is not what you have been conditioned to think it is when you begin to speculate as a result of the ambiguous endings. The obvious answer in Inception is that Mal is dead and is not, therefore, present in reality.









***END SPOILERS***

quote:

---

If the jolt/falling feeling wakes you up, then why did no one get woken up as the van was rolling off the embankment?

---

The strong sedative used to go three levels deep was so difficult to wake up from that all the kicks had to be synchronized.

SPOILER





Quick question:

When he spins the top while talking to his kids on the phone, does it stop spinning?

i believe so

that's when he gets back to his hotel room, and is sitting there with the gun.

[This message has been edited by schmendeler (edited 7/20/2010 12:03p).]

If it does stop spinning, then he wasnt dreaming the entire time IMO.

It doesn't matter if the top *stops* spinning (even at the end).

If Cobb wants the top to stop spinning (to prove to himself - whether true or not - that he is in reality), he can make it stop spinning.

The top only gives you a definitive answer if it *doesn't* stop spinning - as there's no way that could happen in reality.

So whether the top wobbles or not at the end of the movie really doesn't matter - the point is he walked away after spinning it... He doesn't care if it's truly reality or not, he's happy.

quote:

---

If it does stop spinning, then he wasnt dreaming the entire time IMO.

---

Didn't even click with me. I like this notion. If they top stopped spinning at least once during the movie, the logic of the film would dictate there is in fact a reality. And since the tone of the "reality" scenes matches the tone of the end scene (lack of "dreamy" physics, more sober Leo, clear motives, no Mal, etc.), in my opinion, then it wasn't all a dream.

I get the underlying theme of reality is what you make of it (even though I thought it was stronger in Shutter Island while not as hammered home in Inception except with Mal's character), I don't think it was the singular intention of Nolan. For the top to fall in earlier scenes only to have it not fall at the end scene throws of the logic of Inception's world.

Not sure if that makes sense to anyone else.

***SPOILER***

quote:

---

When he spins the top while talking to his kids on the phone, does it stop spinning?

---

Yes.

quote:

---

It doesn't matter if the top *stops* spinning (even at the end).

If Cobb wants the top to stop spinning (to prove to himself - whether true or not - that he is in reality), he can make it stop spinning.

The top only gives you a definitive answer if it *doesn't* stop spinning - as there's no way that could happen in reality.

So whether the top wobbles or not at the end of the movie really doesn't matter - the point is he walked away after spinning it... He doesn't care if it's truly reality or not, he's happy.

---

mhayden, you're assuming that he is willing the top to continue spinning or stop spinning. In actuality, you can't prove that he is actually doing that. If anything, b/c he even feels the need to spin the top, his subconscious surrenders control and does not affect its spin b/c it is so uncertain. Neither of us can really prove ourselves on this point, but I thought I would just let you know that your contention is just as fallible as the opposite contention.

As for the ending, I agree, in the end, he is truly happy and doesn't care. But, you see, that is not what WE are discussing. We want to know what was definitive and so we speculate. You failed to recall the entirety of what I said. There is a definitive answer to all of the mysterious endings Nolan my inject in his movies. He has said so himself. It is not the answer that seems so obvious, but your mind has been tricked, conditioned to think only on one line of thought.

****Spoiler****








I walked out of the theater thinking it was real, although chuckling at how mean the cliffhangar was. The more I read and think about it though, it's clear there's a ton of evidence for both the real/fake arguments, and I have no idea what I think now. I still loved the movie though.










****Spoiler****

***SPOILERS***

quote:

---

If, in fact, what he believed was reality was actually a dream, Mal would have appeared there from his subconscious, which she did not. At the end of the film he is in his home and sees his children and Mal is NOT there.

---

But Cobb had "let her go" in Limbo. So she wouldn't be there even if it was a dream. He didn't "need" her to be there anymore.

crud link is being blanked out.

Search inception dora the explorer on youtube.

[This message has been edited by Marsuvees (edited 7/21/2010 1:43a).]

not very funny

So why did they show us Cobbs washing up on shore and talking to the old Saito at the beginning of the movie. Was the rest of the movie just them recalling the past? Cause I think Saito says at the beginning that he had met him before and then they flashed to their earlier meeting

I thought the movie was just ok and that many of the scenes could have been shortened and still had the same effect.

Call me a sap but I thought the depth (pun intended) of love that Cobb showed for Mal was pretty touching. Must be nice to love someone that much.

Found this:

quote:

---

"In the opening moments you get a glimpse of Leo's hand. Specifically, he's wearing his wedding ring. Now, if you follow the rest of the movie keeping an eye out for this you will notice that he only has the ring on when he's in the dream world. At the end of the movie he isn't wearing the ring." If the ring only appears when he's in a dream and he's not wearing at the end of the film, that could be confirmation that in fact, the top does stop spinning after the credits and Cobb is at last in the real world.

---

Or it could be because he finally "moved on" from the hold his wife had over his subconscious. I agree with the others who say the point of the last scene is not the top but the fact that he walked away from it before he could see if it fell- he no longer cared if he was in reality or a dream, he was simply where he wanted to be. Besides, even if the top fell that doesnt mean he is in reality. It is his totem, he can make it fall in his own dream if he subconsciously wanted to be in reality

He was unable to dream his wife as richly as she actually was. What makes you think he would have been able to dream his kids as richly as they actually were? He had already had the chance to stay with both his wife and kids in a different level, but refused. Why would he accept being with just his kids?

He probably was tired of all the stuff he was doing and just wanted to be done with it. The fact that there are two actors for phillipa seem to suggest he did in fact end up in the dream.

quote:

---

He was unable to dream his wife as richly as she actually was. What makes you think he would have been able to dream his kids as richly as they actually were? He had already had the chance to stay with both his wife and kids in a different level, but refused. Why would he accept being with just his kids?

---

Good point.

Great movie - saw it last night at Gold Class cinema (which is awesome btw).

Did anyone else feel like Cobb's shared subconscious level w/ Mal was super boring? If I had 50 years to build a world with seeminly no limits, you would see way more Dr. Manhattan-esque creations, rather than a crappy looking New York that I plopped my first house in the middle of. Just sayin'....

Anyone notice DiCaprio's characters in Shutter Island and Inception were both similar. They each had wives that commited suicide and both struggled with handling and coming to the reality that their spouses were dead.

yes, three or four other posters commented on it.

***SHUTTER ISLAND SPOILERS***

quote:

---

They each had wives that commited suicide and both struggled with handling and coming to the reality that their spouses were dead.

---

Actually, he shot his wife in Shutter Island after she drowned her children.






















***END SPOILERS***

[This message has been edited by sharkenleo (edited 7/23/2010 7:09p).]

you know, some people might not have seen shutter island.

please edit that. That sucks.

I hope I forget what I just read sometimes between now and when I watch shutter island.

[This message has been edited by Whistling For Flies (edited 7/23/2010 6:27p).]

Taking the time to reply to it will certainly help you forget.

sorry about that guys

the other dude gave some spoilers as well... either way, doesn't bother me, i've seen both!

****SPOILERS****


I just saw it. It seems that the dream levels and limbo make for 2 dimensions. Traditionally, they were going up and down dream levels. But, previously Cobb had managed to go sideways into limbo with Mal.

We find out at one point that Cobb is the only one who's ever gone into limbo. So the only rules we know about limbo are the glimpses we get from what he and Mal had experienced. Presumably, they got back by killing themselves (heads on the train tracks). Or did they?

We really have no way of knowing that either of them ever really got back to reality. It might've sent them further sideways to a second level of limbo. Then Mal killed herself again, she could've gone a level further sideways, to a third level of limbo and ahead of Cobb. The entire movie is Cobb and Mal crossing paths as they descend further in dream levels and further sideways through limbo levels.

So, in the end, Cobb might be dozens of levels down and countless levels sideways... So far from reality and so exponentially expanded in time, that the whole movie might unfold in a fraction of a "reality" second. And, somewhere in reality Cobb and Mal have been unconscious for maybe 20 minutes or something while their subconsciouses have gone several levels down in dreams and several levels sideways in limbos, eventually becoming separated from each other when Mal jumps from the ledge.

[This message has been edited by F W ag 01 (edited 7/23/2010 11:35p).]

****Spoilers (if you javent figured that out by now, this thread is full of them)***




I think the inception worked as planned on all of you. The idea that the top matters was planted in your minds, so you think the question of whether it continues to spin after the screen goes black actually matters. It clearly doesn't, and here's why:

Remember what they said about the totems when they introduced the concept. They made a big deal out of saying it and then reinforcing it (first JGL, then Leo, then Ellen Page). You can never let anyone touch your totem. If you do, it loses it's power as an "anchor" to reality. It becomes a part of the holder's subconcious, so neither of you will ever know reality from dream after the two of you have touched it. Now, the important question:

Whose totem was the top?



*** End Spoilers ****

quote:

---

When he spins the top while talking to his kids on the phone, does it stop spinning?

---

I just got out of the movie, and I'm pretty sure he stops it with his hand after his mother hangs up. Could be wrong, but that's what I remember. Either way, my statements above still count.