just giving the spreadsheet nerds what they want

Gordo14, didnt CDUB tell you to shut up until you graduate and have experience?

But he's in upper level classes now, Rusty!

Can the name be changed to TXA&M-TF1? Or TAMU-TF1?

Thanks and Gig'em

Rusty, we own Texas again and are the first University people talk about when Texas comes up. No need for the further descriptor anymore. Leave your BAS at door with your coat.

SEC!SEC!SEC!

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Can the name be changed to TXA&M-TF1? Or TAMU-TF1?

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TTF1 and TTF2 (Dallas area) were both deployed.

Texas A&M Foresty Service also sent an IMT planning section.

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Gordo14, didnt CDUB tell you to shut up until you graduate and have experience?

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didn't read don't care. I'm not an idiot and i seeing as this is what I've studied in school i can have an opinion. some people on here just want to be ******* old people who decide to instantly insult anybody who is a student to be an internet badass.

it's cool though, you can join the club, or you can ignore my posts, or you can have a discussion. all i was saying was that given what happened somebody screwed up and that pressure can cause crazy **** too. but really, it's pathetic how some of you olds feel so threatened you have to be a ******bag to students who study this ****.

This happens on every thread about industry i post on. the funny thing is i actually know my **** and nobody can say I'm wrong and why. they can only say when you become employed then you can talk. i don't care if i ****ed up and say something wrong, but the only response i get is since stupid power trip to "put me in my place". ex. talking about USA becoming the leading producer of oil - get made fun of, cause there aren't enough drilling rigs. explain i was thinking more about the development of tertiary recovery, use government agency sources. then i get insulted for being a student even though i brought a legitimate point to the table.

[This message has been edited by gordo14 (edited 4/18/2013 12:01p).]

Students chiming in with regurgitated textbook material

I look forward to the continued discourse on this topic. Even though I believe this event to be a black swan, I am eagerly awaiting the posts from one or more posters who will use the benefit of hindsight to explain how we should have seen this coming.

[This message has been edited by jh0400 (edited 4/18/2013 11:58a).]

I wasn't trying to start a fight with SuperDave. No nerd CHEN fight with us.

I am just currently designing a NH3/Urea plant and this is HIGHLY pertinent to our design/discussions. Even though we aren't making AN.

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professional

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no (working on it, applying to take PE test in Oct), but it is my job being an engineer

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vessel

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process design, not mechanical

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chemical

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yes

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facility

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I assume you "Faculty" and not "facility" (aka a place that makes it), and yes, I used to be one at A&M.

~egon

What does Natalie Portman have to do with this?

Not to move away from the nerd debate, but one thing I wanted to point out that gave me a real sense of pride last night watching the news and now hearing about the efforts this morning – Texans as a whole are fairly composed people. Maybe residents last night were in shock, but the few that I saw on the news were not frantic or in a state of complete emotional disarray. It’s pretty amazing.

And, as a state, our emergency response and the ability of private and government entities to operate together is extremely comforting. I know we are always in a constant debate over the mix of public/private for relief, and I don’t know what’s perfect, but we seem to have a nice mix here in Texas and don’t appear to be screwing the pooch here.

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Students chiming in with regurgitated textbook material

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******bags chiming in because they are insecure

Egon is closer to the source on this. Most of my career has been in LNG.

TX-TF1 name can not be changed as they are one of the 28 FEMA US&R teams and their designation is set by FEMA. Others are the same such as CA-TF1 or FL-TF1.

We do always mention the sponsoring Agency as the Texas A&M Engineering Extension Service as do our friends and partners in response the Texas A&M Forrest Service. We are all part of the A&M family & system along with being a state agency.

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nobody can say I'm wrong and why

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You're wrong.

Your assumption that it was a pressure vessel is wrong. It is an atmospheric/low pressure API 521 (if we're lucky) tank.

But, please, continue.....

[This message has been edited by CDUB98 (edited 4/18/2013 12:06p).]

They just found what's believed to be my Uncle's best friend and fellow Dallas Fireman. He was a volunteer at West where he lived and was off work yesterday, but when in to volunteer.

So sad right now.

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They just found what's believed to be my Uncle's best friend and fellow Dallas Fireman. He was a volunteer at West where he lived and was off work yesterday, but when in to volunteer.

So sad right now.

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I'm so sorry.

do we even know definitively what chemical caused the explosion?

So sorry, Blue Eyes.

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Not to move away from the nerd debate, but one thing I wanted to point out that gave me a real sense of pride last night watching the news and now hearing about the efforts this morning – Texans as a whole are fairly composed people. Maybe residents last night were in shock, but the few that I saw on the news were not frantic or in a state of complete emotional disarray. It’s pretty amazing.

And, as a state, our emergency response and the ability of private and government entities to operate together is extremely comforting. I know we are always in a constant debate over the mix of public/private for relief, and I don’t know what’s perfect, but we seem to have a nice mix here in Texas and don’t appear to be screwing the pooch here.

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Thank you for saying what my heart is feeling.

he's been missing all morning. His son is also a Dallas Fireman. They thought they'd found him at a local hospital, but it wasn't him.

Now, they've found him.

My uncle is out there now and said it's worse than anything he's seen in a long time.

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do we even know definitively what chemical caused the explosion?

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Not definitive, but based on what I have gathered (and posted earlier in the thread), the fire (and subsequent explosion) was in the dry storage barn where the ammonium nitrate (in granular form) is housed. The anhydrous tanks are nearby, but aren't what exploded.

[This message has been edited by AgEng06 (edited 4/18/2013 12:13p).]

Blue eyes, how can people help best? Money? Supplies? Volunteer? Just wondering if he might be a good source to see what people need.

so pressure had nothing to do with anything

the "plastic explosives" detonated

My friend on the Veterinary Emergency Team at the vet school said they deployed early this morning for West/Waco. Lots of injured animals, so include them in your donations of pet food, supplies, etc.

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so pressure had nothing to do with anything

the "plastic explosives" detonated

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That's my understanding.

Volunteer and donation information:

http://www.texasvoad.org/member-directory-documents

http://www.volunteertx.org/

From our friends on the VET team:

"The Texas A&M Veterinary Emergency Team was activated at 3:30 am Thursday morning through a request from the Texas Division of Emergency Management and Texas Task Force 1 to deploy to West, Texas in response to the fertilizer plant explosion. As we head down the road, we know that we will be very busy as soon as we hit the ground in West."

Thanks for the links.

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didn't read don't care. I'm not an idiot and i seeing as this is what I've studied in school i can have an opinion. some people on here just want to be ******* old people who decide to instantly insult anybody who is a student to be an internet badass.

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Except you are spouting crap from google/wikipedia/etc and don't understand it. Some of us have advanced degrees and actually know wtf we are talking about already. A fertilizer plant exploded, which means that anhydrous ammonia was probably among the chemicals involved. Instead of copying a google search link that says the same thing I already said and saying I'm wrong, why don't you take a look at this:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ammonia-pressure-temperature-d_361.html

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Anhydrous ammonia NH3
•a colorless non-flammable liquefied gas
•vapor lighter than air - 0.6 compared to air 1.0
•ignition temperature 1204oF (vapor concentration between 15% and 28%)
•corrodes galvanized metals, cast iron, copper, brass or copper alloys
•weight of liquid ammonia 5.15 pounds per gallon (water weight 8.33 pounds per gallon)
•boiling point liquid ammonia at atmospheric pressure -28F
•liquid ammonia expands to 850 times its liquid volume at atmospheric pressure

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Compared to what you and I said earlier:

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This was tank was probably already under significant pressure because it probably contained the chemical in liquid form (probably a gas at room temp)... now imagine boiling it (would require a very high temp) but no room for the gas to escape.
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If a chemical required a ton of pressure to keep it in liquid form, it would require almost no heat to boil since it would be a gas at atmospheric pressures.

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[This message has been edited by Cromagnum (edited 4/18/2013 12:24p).]

The fertilizer makes the most sense.

Ammonium nitrate can be pretty deadly, but it needs an oxidizer and spark.

I think that is why diesel was used by farmers for homeade bombs, and for OKC bombing. The diesel also adds energy.

It was speculated by someone on another board that trying to fight the fire with water caused the fertilizer to start breaking down and producing NO2. Then you had your oxidizer.

And with a fire already going.......


boom


Not saying at that that is what happened, or if NO2 would even be a byproduct of water+ammonium nitrate.

Just saying it seems plausible if the chemistry works out.

The AA tank didn't explode.

They thought it might but it didn't.

Does that part of this fight matter?


edit: if/of

[This message has been edited by Poptartin (edited 4/18/2013 12:26p).]

Staff should merge the cars vs. trucks thread with this one.