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It was speculated by someone on another board that trying to fight the fire with water caused the fertilizer to start breaking down and producing NO2. Then you had your oxidizer.

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from the MSDS for ammonium nitrate:

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Fire Fighting Media and Instructions:
Oxidizing material. Do not use water jet. Use flooding quantities of water. Avoid contact with organic materials.

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Staff should merge the cars vs. trucks thread with this one.

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Right, CDUB. Which is what I was trying to point out.

The pressure argument going on was entertaining, though...

Crap, not good, dave.

FYI.

Anybody wanting to donate blood. Here are locations of drives through next Sunday

4/19 GC services-- town lake center, copperas cove 11-4
4/21 Bartlett fire dept; 11a-3p
4/21 first umc waco; 9-1p
4/22 killeen walmart; 12-5p
4/23 windcrest nursing home, copperas cove; 10-2
4/24 temple va hospital 9-3
4/25 ctc nursing dept, 10-2
4/25 itt waco; 1-6
4/26 harker heights walmart 1-5p
4/27 American legion post Hewitt 11-1p
4/27 celebrate killeen fair; 830-1p
4/27 Masonic lodge Hillsboro; 8a-6p
4/28 killeen walmart; 12-5

If you can come out next week we need the help all week and through the summer

On a side note, I am enjoying the chemical engineering education from this thread as well.

Me too, BS.


And has Westboro tried to make the news out of this tragedy yet? I bet they're on their way

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chemical engineering education

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it's all just a bunch of copying and pasting from codes or textbooks

I'm still seeing 5-15...is that right?

USAToday says at least 15 deaths and 160 injuries, now.

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I'm still seeing 5-15...is that right?

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They haven't actually progressed to attempting to recover bodies yet. They're currently only looking for people who are still alive. They should probably be saying "Unknown" for the total. I hope it doesn't go to the 60-70 that the head of their EMS was saying, but after seeing pictures of the top floor of the apartment complex it wouldn't surprise me.

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Someone correct me if I'm wrong but anhydrous ammonia is not explosive!

ammonia nitrate which is a dry fertilizer when mixed with water is highly explosive

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high pressure can cause an explosion too. chemicals do not need to be explosive or flammable to cause a high pressure build up

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a high pressure type overpressure event does not cause the type of destruction we had yesterday. not even close.

T&P for those on here who lost friends and family

anyone know when they'll do another press conference?

So the nitrate barn (we'll call it that) was the baking soda and the water was the vinegar (on a much more complex level than that of course)?

BePrepared - or other folks who use IC - what's the difference between a Type I and Type III Task Force? I saw that in the site report from the last operational period, but couldn't find a definition.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/04/18/the-texas-fertilizer-plant-explosion-is-horrific-but-how-common-is-this/

From this link, this is not even a fertilizer plant. It is just a retail or wholesale distribution center.

It was ammonium nitrate - not anhydrous ammonia.

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From this link, this is not even a fertilizer plant. It is just a retail or wholesale distribution center.

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Right. I meant to add that earlier when I was talking about the nitrate dry barn being the location for the explosion. It's called a plant, but technically isn't.

Makes more sense.

I'm just going to go on record as having no idea what these enginerds are talking about. All I know was that there was a huge explosion.

Difference in Type 1 and Type 3 has to do with the number of personnel (70-80 type 1, 28 type 3) and the assets and specialties they deploy with. There is also a QRF (Quick Reaction Force) capability among some teams an water and swiftwater rescue among some as well.

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I'm still seeing 5-15...is that right?

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Fox news on 590 am just said "as many as, excuse me, at least 15"

ways to help (copied from an email):

Blood Donations:
• Carter Bloodcenter in Waco, a list of places to give blood is located at http://www.carterbloodcare.org
• Carter Bloodcare in Dallas will be taking blood donations for those in the DFW area. They are located at 4849 West Illinois Ave.
• Brazos Valley Blood Center in College Station from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m., located at 1701 Rock Prairie Road

Monetary Donations:
• Baylor University has set up a fund to accept gifts that will benefit the community of West. You can make a gift to the fund online at www.baylor.edu/relief/give or in person at Clifton Robinson Tower located at 700 S. University Parks Drive, outside of the Cashier’s Office.
• You can text REDCROSS to 90999 to donate $10 to American Red Cross Disaster Relief.

Events:
• The Waco Harley Davidson with hosting a Crawfish Boil Relief Fundraiser on Sat. 4/27 at 10:00am. Live band, blood drive, beverages, crawfish, etc.
• West Prayer Hour at the McGregor Bandstand Fri. 4/26 at noon. Donations will be accepted.

Physical Donations (the list is immense and growing):
• ESPN 1660 AM is taking donations at their Bagby Ave. location
• The Temple Dynaclean on 2102 West Avenue D will accept donations starting at 8 a.m.
• Berthas Bakery & Restaurant will be accepting donations at 7 a.m. They are located at 2418 Grim Ave in Waco. You can contact them at 254-755-7123
• Lil Monkey Boutique will be accepting donations. They are located at 2052 Valley Mills Dr. You can contact them at 254-717-7717.
• Lone Star Tavern and Steakhouse at 4713 Bellmead Dr. in Waco will be accepting gift card donations and bottle water donations starting at 8 a.m.
• T & M Contracting in Woodway is taking donations at 123 Topeka Dr. You can contact them at 254-224-6161.
• Smarty Pants in Waco will be accepting clothing donations at 8 a.m. They are located at 5301 Bosque Blvd. You can contact them at 254-751-0211.
• VFW in Hewitt is accepting donations. They are located at 725 Sun Valley Blvd.
• Connor Health Foods will be accepting donations. They are located on Waco Dr. and 27th Street.
• Canyon Springs is accepting all donations. They are located at 2301 Woodgate in Waco. You can contact them at 254-235-0602.
• Smith Quality Motors will be accepting donations. They are located at 431 North Lacy Dr. in Lacy Lakeview. You can contact Seth Posey at 254-297-9413.
• Richard Karr Motors in Waco is accepting all kinds of donations at 8 a.m. They are located at 1101 North Valley Mills. You can contact them at 254-776-1111
• Bosque County residents can bring food, drinks, toiletries, and baby care items to the Clifton Civic Center starting at 7 a.m. The center is located at 403 W. 3rd Street.
• Parkview Christian Childcare Center on 1100 E. Lakeshore Dr. is taking donations. They can be contacted at 254-753-0327.
• Belton fire station #2 is taking donations from 7 a.m. to 8 p.m. They will take food, water, and clothing. They are located at 420 Sparta Rd. in Belton.
• People in College Station can donate to the Aggie Outfitters.
• Daddy T Shirt Shop is accepting donations in McGregor starting Thursday morning.
• Farmers Insurance in Waco will be taking donations at 8 a.m. They are located at 1838 N. Valley Mills Dr.
• Woodway Christian School is accepting donations of water, non-perishable food items, toiletries, gift cards and money. They are located at 13000 Woodway Dr.
• Point West Bank - drop off or send to 200 West Oak Street, West 76691
• The Extraco Events Center will be setting up to take donations starting at 9 am on Thursday. For information, call (254) 776-1660
• Express is Richland Mall is taking donations of clothing/bedding/ can goods.. Anything beneficial to the ones in need! Stop by or call 254-772-7700, or the store manager 254-285-1246
• Texas AgriLife Extension Service, McLennan County will be accepting donations at our office today...Water, gatorade, etc at 420 North 6th Street. 254-757-5180 for directions or questions.
• Victorious Life Church off I-35 in the Hewitt/Robinson area is accepting bedding, clothes, water, hygiene....anything
• Blair Cove Apartments is in URGENT need of the following for displaced resident of the West explosion: Baby items, Toiletries, Water, Gatorade, Food, Blankets, Pillows, Clothing & Shoes for men, women, children, Towels, Washrags, Wet Wipes, Shower Curtains, Dishes: 2425 S 21st St Waco, TX 76706 (254) 756-5855

Be Prepared. Thanks. That's what I thought, but wasn't exactly sure.

Thank you for posting that. We are all sick at my house so I can't get out but I can definitely donate to the Red Cross.

Heartbreaking...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/slideshow/west-texas-fertilizer-plant-explodes-18984514

Thanks Aggiedagger. I was trying to get an email from my dad, but haven't gotten it yet.

When dealing with explosive/dangerous chemicals, lots of times the standard fire fighting techniques don't work. Essentially you get everyone out and watch it burn/blow up.

Thermite, AN(ANFO), some explosives fall into this category. You hope the engineer who designed/built everything gets it to the point that it won't catch fire barring the world ending (or the world catching fire).

To get enough water on AN would actually cause it to cool off and freeze (instant ice packs are a small amount of AN in a big bag of water). But that would be, with a SWAG, about a 10-1 ratio of water to AN. So if there are TONS of AN in the barn, you need to get 10x or more tons of water into the barn. Quickly.


But I could see the confusion that there is a fire at the fertilizer place, there are tanks of AA and we need to cool off the tanks to prevent a BLEVE. Probably what they were thinking. Maybe water got onto AN and that just made it worse.



But I know the CSB will find out and it will be an interesting report/presentation (assuming they get funding to do the report....)


~egon

damn it.

http://www.heavy.com/news/2013/04/westboro-baptist-church-west-texas-explosion-funerals/

What a lousy group of humans.

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But I could see the confusion that there is a fire at the fertilizer place, there are tanks of AA and we need to cool off the tanks to prevent a BLEVE. Probably what they were thinking. Maybe water got onto AN and that just made it worse.

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Question:

Had the fire not been attempted to be suppressed would have been any less devastation?

Would the explosion of the tanks caused any type of explosion or intense burn of the AN?

Is this merely an incident with no good possible outcome at all?

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What a lousy group of humans.

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I ****ing despise those people. "God's work" my ass.

in swimmer's link, the tweet image they posted doesn't say anything about planning on protesting in West?

Yeah it does??? Are we looking at the same thing?!

I would be very willing to drive a car full of people from Houston to West with some hymnals to sing from in order to help block if they do that.

This is the curse of twitter.

Stupidity is echoed exponentially