Trump indicted over classified documents

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will25u
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6:18a, 4/10/24
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BMX Bandit
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In reply to will25u • 6:24a, 4/10/24
That brief is from the DC case, not this Florida case.

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3390092/1#discussion
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Im Gipper
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12:11p, 4/11/24
So Smith will never be Bobby Knight.



Quote:
However, no matter how hard he tries, Deranged Jack Smith will never be Coach Bobby Knight, a Basketball Legend for all time, who led the last undefeated team in College Basketball. Coach Knight would always "play the refs," but not to change the last call, to change the next one….

I'm Gipper
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TXAggie2011
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12:18p, 4/11/24
AG
Does that mean it would be OK if the Government lawyers tossed a chair at Judge Cannon?
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aggiehawg
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3:31p, 4/11/24
AG
30 minute or so Gouveia stream on the latest dust up in the documents case. I am losing track of these "tranches" of sealed versus unsealed evidence. And all of this is because of the CIPA procedures frontloading these pretrial matters well before trial preparation. Not a delay by Trump but a delay due to the procedures invoked by Smith.

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Stat Monitor Repairman
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4:05p, 4/11/24
Let's not forget that the drafters of the US Constitution were heavily influenced by the abuses of the Star chamber where special prosecutors were appointed to go after politically prominent people, and prosecutions were also conducted on the basis of secreted evidence.

Point is that Trump and human nature has got people so sideways that we in 2024 and back using the same tactics people left England to get away from.

It really is unbelievable that we arguing over the process by which the a chief political rival will be convinced of a felony without the average person being able to look a the evidence for themselves.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 4:08p, 4/11/24
AG
Quote:
Let's not forget that the drafters of the US Constitution were heavily influenced by the abuses of the Star chamber where special prosecutors were appointed to go after politically prominent people, and prosecutions were also conducted on the basis of secreted evidence.
This. There was an abuse that the Founders wanted to address so it would not happen here.
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will25u
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7:48p, 4/11/24
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will25u
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7:45a, 4/12/24

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Ellis Wyatt
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8:03a, 4/12/24
Biden's (his admin) complete lack of integrity or ethical bounds is appalling.

They continually make general claims that they can't even prove, but just count on the fact that judges won't allow them to be challenged at all. Thankfully, Nauta's attorneys are pushing back. This is a huge prosecutorial overreach that serves only to interfere with the election. No other president has ever been challenged over documents in this way before.

Jack Smith should be disbarred and run out of this country.
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captkirk
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In reply to will25u • 10:42a, 4/12/24
AG
Mr. Nauta has good legal representation, it would seem.
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Opalka
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In reply to Ellis Wyatt • 12:28p, 4/12/24
AG
Ellis Wyatt said:
Biden's (his admin) complete lack of integrity or ethical bounds is appalling.

They continually make general claims that they can't even prove, but just count on the fact that judges won't allow them to be challenged at all. Thankfully, Nauta's attorneys are pushing back. This is a huge prosecutorial overreach that serves only to interfere with the election. No other president has ever been challenged over documents in this way before.

Jack Smith should be disbarred and run out of this country.
Can you name another president that REFUSED to hand over classified documents when asked? Or tried to hide them, or collude with his assistants to do so? Maybe that's why no other president has ever been challenged over documents in this way before.....because it hasn't happened this way before. Or a president claiming that he can declassify documents just by thinking about it, magically! Just a thought.
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Ellis Wyatt
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In reply to Opalka • 12:58p, 4/12/24
Opalka said:
Ellis Wyatt said:
Biden's (his admin) complete lack of integrity or ethical bounds is appalling.

They continually make general claims that they can't even prove, but just count on the fact that judges won't allow them to be challenged at all. Thankfully, Nauta's attorneys are pushing back. This is a huge prosecutorial overreach that serves only to interfere with the election. No other president has ever been challenged over documents in this way before.

Jack Smith should be disbarred and run out of this country.
Can you name another president that REFUSED to hand over classified documents when asked?
Smith keeps talking about "documents with classified markings." That is not the same thing as classified documents. Trump's team was in negotiations over what should/would be turned over. And now the government wants to prevent anyone from knowing what documents they're even referring to. This is fascism, and what our forefathers were vehemently against.

I know you think lawfare is good. May you become the victim of it.
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jt2hunt
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In reply to Opalka • 2:41p, 4/12/24
AG
Opalka said:
Ellis Wyatt said:
Biden's (his admin) complete lack of integrity or ethical bounds is appalling.

They continually make general claims that they can't even prove, but just count on the fact that judges won't allow them to be challenged at all. Thankfully, Nauta's attorneys are pushing back. This is a huge prosecutorial overreach that serves only to interfere with the election. No other president has ever been challenged over documents in this way before.

Jack Smith should be disbarred and run out of this country.
Can you name another president that REFUSED to hand over classified documents when asked? Or tried to hide them, or collude with his assistants to do so? Maybe that's why no other president has ever been challenged over documents in this way before.....because it hasn't happened this way before. Or a president claiming that he can declassify documents just by thinking about it, magically! Just a thought.
BS
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TXAggie2011
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In reply to Ellis Wyatt • 2:57p, 4/12/24
AG
Ellis Wyatt said:
Opalka said:
Ellis Wyatt said:
Biden's (his admin) complete lack of integrity or ethical bounds is appalling.

They continually make general claims that they can't even prove, but just count on the fact that judges won't allow them to be challenged at all. Thankfully, Nauta's attorneys are pushing back. This is a huge prosecutorial overreach that serves only to interfere with the election. No other president has ever been challenged over documents in this way before.

Jack Smith should be disbarred and run out of this country.
Can you name another president that REFUSED to hand over classified documents when asked?
Smith keeps talking about "documents with classified markings." That is not the same thing as classified documents.
This isn't really true. I pulled up one of the Government's recent filings and they call them "classified documents" or "classified national defense information" dozens of times.

Quote:
he took with him scores of boxes, including many containing classified documents
Quote:
Trump was personally put on notice that classified national defense information may be possessed only by authorized persons
Quote:
Trump was not authorized to possess or retain those classified documents.
Quote:
The classified documents that Trump put in boxes
Quote:
Trump did not create any of the charged classified documents;
Quote:
they highlight his willfulness in retaining a trove of classified documents at his residence
Quote:
those statements provide strong evidence that he knew after his Presidency that he possessed classified documents
Quote:
The Superseding Indictment charges Trump with Section 793(e) violations based on allegations that he possessed classified documents at Mar-a-Lago
Quote:
There is no evidence that Trump designated such records as "personal," and the nature of the classified documents at issue in this case
Quote:
By no stretch can classified records created by the USIC for the President's review be deemed documents "of a purely private or nonpublic character
Quote:
Trump was personally on notice concerning the importance of proper handling of classified national defense information
Quote:
Trump's own statements show that he was on notice about the consequences of mishandling classified information


Etc. Etc. Etc. (chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653.377.0.pdf))
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aggiehawg
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In reply to TXAggie2011 • 3:10p, 4/12/24
AG
Quote:
he took with him scores of boxes, including many containing classified documents
Where was this office? Why weren't they doing their jobs?

Quote:
Within the White House, the Office of Records Management supports the incumbent administration in identifying and transferring presidential records to the National Archives. The National Archives provides records management guidance and assistance with transferring presidential records based on its institutional knowledge and expertise to the incumbent administration. The National Archives has no authority to enforce records management within the White House.

Presidential records are defined as: "documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, created or received by the President, the President's immediate staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise and assist the President, in the course of conducting activities which relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President." [44 U.S.C. 2201(2)]. These records can be in any format, including textual, audiovisual, and electronic records. Presidential records are governed by the Presidential Records Act (PRA), which applies to records from the Reagan administration forward.
LINK
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gtaggie_08
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3:32p, 4/12/24
AG
How many "classified documents" did Obama take with him? The answer is they don't know because he digitized them for his "digital" presidential library. I can guarantee you that some of them document his spying on the Trump campaign.

It's been said on here many times but with almost any doubt you can bank in the documents Trump took were related to efforts the left took to spy/harass/investigate him that he took as insurance. That's why they are fighting so hard to get them back/keep them secret in court
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Ellis Wyatt
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In reply to TXAggie2011 • 4:38p, 4/12/24
TXAggie2011 said:


Quote:
those statements provide strong evidence that he knew after his Presidency that he possessed classified documents
Quote:
The Superseding Indictment charges Trump with Section 793(e) violations based on allegations that he possessed classified documents at Mar-a-Lago
Quote:
There is no evidence that Trump designated such records as "personal," and the nature of the classified documents at issue in this case
Quote:
By no stretch can classified records created by the USIC for the President's review be deemed documents "of a purely private or nonpublic character
Quote:
Trump was personally on notice concerning the importance of proper handling of classified national defense information
Quote:
Trump's own statements show that he was on notice about the consequences of mishandling classified information


Etc. Etc. Etc. (chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653.377.0.pdf))
Then let's see the proof. We don't do secret evidence in America. We have learned that the fascists in power say anything that is expedient for them. The truth is completely optional.
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Ellis Wyatt
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In reply to gtaggie_08 • 4:39p, 4/12/24
Quote:
It's been said on here many times but with almost any doubt you can bank in the documents Trump took were related to efforts the left took to spy/harass/investigate him that he took as insurance. That's why they are fighting so hard to get them back/keep them secret in court
And he 100% had the right to declassify and keep them. He does not have to follow any procedure. And the PRA has no criminal component to it.
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Ag with kids
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In reply to Ellis Wyatt • 9:25p, 4/12/24
AG
Ellis Wyatt said:
Opalka said:
Ellis Wyatt said:
Biden's (his admin) complete lack of integrity or ethical bounds is appalling.

They continually make general claims that they can't even prove, but just count on the fact that judges won't allow them to be challenged at all. Thankfully, Nauta's attorneys are pushing back. This is a huge prosecutorial overreach that serves only to interfere with the election. No other president has ever been challenged over documents in this way before.

Jack Smith should be disbarred and run out of this country.
Can you name another president that REFUSED to hand over classified documents when asked?
Smith keeps talking about "documents with classified markings." That is not the same thing as classified documents. Trump's team was in negotiations over what should/would be turned over. And now the government wants to prevent anyone from knowing what documents they're even referring to. This is fascism, and what our forefathers were vehemently against.

I know you think lawfare is good. May you become the victim of it.
This is a document with classified markings:



Oh noes...TexAgs is going to jail now.
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Ag with kids
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In reply to Opalka • 9:27p, 4/12/24
AG
Opalka said:
Ellis Wyatt said:
Biden's (his admin) complete lack of integrity or ethical bounds is appalling.

They continually make general claims that they can't even prove, but just count on the fact that judges won't allow them to be challenged at all. Thankfully, Nauta's attorneys are pushing back. This is a huge prosecutorial overreach that serves only to interfere with the election. No other president has ever been challenged over documents in this way before.

Jack Smith should be disbarred and run out of this country.
Can you name another president that REFUSED to hand over classified documents when asked? Or tried to hide them, or collude with his assistants to do so? Maybe that's why no other president has ever been challenged over documents in this way before.....because it hasn't happened this way before. Or a president claiming that he can declassify documents just by thinking about it, magically! Just a thought.
FWIW...

Since the POTUS has original classification authority, they CAN say "POOF! This document is now unclassified".

Then it's up to the agencies UNDER the POTUS to do all the documentation that records that declassification.
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RogerFurlong
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In reply to Opalka • 9:28p, 4/12/24
Opalka said:
Ellis Wyatt said:
Biden's (his admin) complete lack of integrity or ethical bounds is appalling.

They continually make general claims that they can't even prove, but just count on the fact that judges won't allow them to be challenged at all. Thankfully, Nauta's attorneys are pushing back. This is a huge prosecutorial overreach that serves only to interfere with the election. No other president has ever been challenged over documents in this way before.

Jack Smith should be disbarred and run out of this country.
Can you name another president that REFUSED to hand over classified documents when asked? Or tried to hide them, or collude with his assistants to do so? Maybe that's why no other president has ever been challenged over documents in this way before.....because it hasn't happened this way before. Or a president claiming that he can declassify documents just by thinking about it, magically! Just a thought.

How did Biden get his documents he shared with his ghost writer? He stole them. Why did he store them at his Penn center that was funded by china? Why didn't he get charged?
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Ag with kids
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In reply to RogerFurlong • 9:30p, 4/12/24
AG
RogerFurlong said:
Opalka said:
Ellis Wyatt said:
Biden's (his admin) complete lack of integrity or ethical bounds is appalling.

They continually make general claims that they can't even prove, but just count on the fact that judges won't allow them to be challenged at all. Thankfully, Nauta's attorneys are pushing back. This is a huge prosecutorial overreach that serves only to interfere with the election. No other president has ever been challenged over documents in this way before.

Jack Smith should be disbarred and run out of this country.
Can you name another president that REFUSED to hand over classified documents when asked? Or tried to hide them, or collude with his assistants to do so? Maybe that's why no other president has ever been challenged over documents in this way before.....because it hasn't happened this way before. Or a president claiming that he can declassify documents just by thinking about it, magically! Just a thought.

How did Biden get his documents he shared with his ghost writer? He stole them. Why did he store them at his Penn center that was funded by china? Why didn't he get charged?
The Special Counsel determined that he was mentally deficient to stand trial.
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will25u
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10:30p, 4/12/24

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Ellis Wyatt
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In reply to will25u • 10:40p, 4/12/24
will25u said:
Just as I sad. Show us the evidence.

They're trying to say "Just take our word for it." People who have lied to us repeatedly about everything great and small. People who have leaked and leaked and leaked lie after lie to sway public opinion. People who have tweeted misleading pictures. That's their play now. Just trust them while they don't actually show any evidence It's so blatantly unamerican. They did it with J6, also. These are fascists. They're evil.
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will25u
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11:06a, 4/13/24
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will25u
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4:53p, 4/22/24
Plasmic Echo!








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Ellis Wyatt
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5:21p, 4/22/24
Please, libs. Defend this.

Stalinist. Ghoulish.
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will25u
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9:44p, 4/22/24
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nortex97
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9:13a, 4/24/24
AG
Oh look, more shameless political thuggery to 'get Trump.'



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aggiehawg
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9:03a, 4/28/24
AG
Quote:
This week in Florida, Judge Aileen Cannon unsealed a trove of new documents that Jack Smith fought to keep hidden. And you'll soon find out why. Among the documents unsealed were extensive exhibits, motions, and other filings shedding light on the intricate web of communication between the Biden White House and the National Archives and Records Administration in the lead-up to Trump's indictment.
Quote:
Investigative journalist Julie Kelly found something interesting in the documents that could change everything. The first things is testimony from an FBI agent who testified that the General Services Association (GSA) had been in possession of Trump's boxes in Virginia before ordering Trump's team to come get them.


Quote:
"So an entire pallet full of boxes that had been held by GSA somewhere outside of DC is dumped at Mar-a-Lago," Kelly notes. "Apparently these are the boxes that ended up containing papers with 'classified markings.'"

"I will double check indictment but I don't recall this event in the timeline," she added.

So, it appears that the Biden administration may have been responsible for shipping classified information to Trump's Mar-a-Lago home in Florida. This development is significant because Trump has previously blamed the GSA for packing the boxes that contained the classified documents, only to later accuse Trump of essentially stealing them and using that as pretext for sending the FBI to raid his Mar-a-Lago home in August 2022.
Quote:
Even so, it still raises other legitimate questions. For example, if the GSA had been in possession of the boxes, why wasn't a review of the materials conducted before they instructed Trump's team to get them? When it comes to classified information, they wouldn't have expected Trump and his staff to be responsible for ensuring that classified documents weren't among the records. Perhaps they did review the contents of the boxes and knew classified documents were contained in them before they told Trump's people to come get them.
LINK

Hat tip to nortex from the hush money thread.

There have always been two major pieces of the puzzle, the GSA and the longstanding White House Documents office. It was their jobs to keep track of documents, classified and otherwise. It was NARA;s job to secure warehouse space near Mar A Lago fo Trump's ability to peruse them, just like they have done for every other former President. And it is NARA that works with the GSA for obtaining the archive material and knowing where it is located.
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aggiehawg
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2:45p, 4/28/24
AG




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Foreverconservative
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In reply to aggiehawg • 3:08p, 4/28/24
Direct evidence Wray has cleaned nothing up as he loves to say under oath to Congress every single time he's on the hill. The FBI is a bunch of corrupt clowns and they always will be.
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience" - Mark Twain
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aggiehawg
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In reply to Foreverconservative • 3:14p, 4/28/24
AG
Foreverconservative said:
Direct evidence Wray has cleaned nothing up as he loves to say under oath to Congress every single time he's on the hill. The FBI is a bunch of corrupt clowns and they always will be.
And Jack Smith should know better than to manufacture grounds for probable cause for that search warrant and then try to redact that out and hide it.

I remember going back and forth with some posters about whether the probable cause affidavit had ever been released in full or if only a redacted version had.
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Fightin_Aggie
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In reply to Opalka • 3:16p, 4/28/24
AG
Opalka said:
Ellis Wyatt said:
Biden's (his admin) complete lack of integrity or ethical bounds is appalling.

They continually make general claims that they can't even prove, but just count on the fact that judges won't allow them to be challenged at all. Thankfully, Nauta's attorneys are pushing back. This is a huge prosecutorial overreach that serves only to interfere with the election. No other president has ever been challenged over documents in this way before.

Jack Smith should be disbarred and run out of this country.
Can you name another president that REFUSED to hand over classified documents when asked? Or tried to hide them, or collude with his assistants to do so? Maybe that's why no other president has ever been challenged over documents in this way before.....because it hasn't happened this way before. Or a president claiming that he can declassify documents just by thinking about it, magically! Just a thought.
Clinton and his hack wife when she stole a bunch of files from the FBI

Or how bout when Mrs. Clinton bleached bit her emails

Those come to mind right away
The world needs mean tweets

My Pronouns Ultra and MAGA

Trump 2024
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