(1) Interplay between the Espionage Act and the Presidential Records Act

A lot of my friends have spoken insightfully about the scope of the Presidential Records Act. I’d direct you to Mike Davis’s (@mrddmia) commentary on the subject, and also Michael Bekesha of…

— Will Scharf (@willscharf) June 15, 2023

eric76 said:

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More importantly, can a President magically pardon himself just by thinking it in the same way that some say he can declassify documents just by thinking it?

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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eric76 said:

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More importantly, can a President magically pardon himself just by thinking it in the same way that some say he can declassify documents just by thinking it?

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I know this is REALLY difficult. The POTUS is THE Executive Branch. He can declassify anything. Laws passed by Congress regarding classification do not impact him. "Rules" put in place by employees of the Executive Branch do not apply to him. HE does not work under those people's authority.

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Manhattan said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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eric76 said:

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More importantly, can a President magically pardon himself just by thinking it in the same way that some say he can declassify documents just by thinking it?

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I know this is REALLY difficult. The POTUS is THE Executive Branch. He can declassify anything. Laws passed by Congress regarding classification do not impact him. "Rules" put in place by employees of the Executive Branch do not apply to him. HE does not work under those people's authority.

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Why are we still discussing this when the FBI had recorded audio that Trump didn't declassify?

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Manhattan said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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eric76 said:

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More importantly, can a President magically pardon himself just by thinking it in the same way that some say he can declassify documents just by thinking it?

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I know this is REALLY difficult. The POTUS is THE Executive Branch. He can declassify anything. Laws passed by Congress regarding classification do not impact him. "Rules" put in place by employees of the Executive Branch do not apply to him. HE does not work under those people's authority.

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Why are we still discussing this when the FBI had recorded audio that Trump didn't declassify?

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It doesn't even matter what he says. The act of him having them is declassification. He has no hoops to jump through. His authority is constitutional, not granted by some department.

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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It doesn't even matter what he says. The act of him having them is was declassification. He has had no hoops to jump through. His authority is was constitutional, not granted by some department.

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Manhattan said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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eric76 said:

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More importantly, can a President magically pardon himself just by thinking it in the same way that some say he can declassify documents just by thinking it?

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I know this is REALLY difficult. The POTUS is THE Executive Branch. He can declassify anything. Laws passed by Congress regarding classification do not impact him. "Rules" put in place by employees of the Executive Branch do not apply to him. HE does not work under those people's authority.

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Why are we still discussing this when the FBI had recorded audio that Trump didn't declassify?

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It doesn't even matter what he says. The act of him having them is declassification. He has no hoops to jump through. His authority is constitutional, not granted by some department.

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nortex97 said:

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Further to the point, EVEN IF he didn't declassify them, they have to prove all kinds of mens rhea about his mental awareness of the status, and his duty as to who he should give them to, and that he actually shared the classified info, instead of talking about it and pointing at a folder/paper that at one point had been classified (as though an op plan to invade Iran wouldn't change at some damn point within 18 months).

The recording…really is small potato's. I am sure on propaganda channels/outlets that is all not covered at all, though, for the TDS news aficionados.

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fc2112 said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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It doesn't even matter what he says. The act of him having them is was declassification. He has had no hoops to jump through. His authority is was constitutional, not granted by some department.

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Fixed your post for when he was president.

At the time of the incident he was criminally charged over, he was not president and not empowered to do any of those things.

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fc2112 said:

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At the time of the incident he was criminally charged over, he was not president and not empowered to do any of those things.

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ThunderCougarFalconBird said:

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Interesting tidbit about the lawyer being offered a judgeship if he could get his client to turn on Trump. The lawyer that made the allegation is legit (former circuit level clerk and Akin Gump (massive/high end firm) partner). Wouldn't make that sort of allegation if it wasn't true because it would completely destroy his reputation. That is going to cause some serious problems for the DOJ.

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Quote:

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Finally, it is a matter of public record now that at least 27 devices used in the Mueller probe were unlawfully wiped clean of records, often by senior prosecutors on that probe, including Andrew Weismann and Greg Andres, or by more junior staff, such as Kyle Freeny and Rush Atkinson. I am deeply concerned that such flagrantly illegal, and debarrable conduct, seeking to cover up prosecutorial misconduct, will be repeated by Special Counsel Jack Smith and his team.

As a result:
1) Please take care to comply with all applicable recordkeeping laws; and

2) Please provide my office with copies of all applicable notices and training provided to staff within the Office of Special Counsel Jack Smith, giving staff notice of their obligations under federal law and Department of Justice policy, by the date specified above.

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Quote:

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As you are undoubtedly aware, the work of Special Counsel Jack Smith is both highly irregular and of extraordinary public concern. Indeed, it is of such concern that the Department of Justice has fielded multiple requests of Congress, from individual member offices and full Committees. My office alone fields numerous calls of constituents asking about the Special Counsel, his authorities, and how his office is structured. It is beyond debate that this simple staff list cannot be withheld from Congress or the public on the basis of attenuated and entirely fantastic privacy concerns. This information is not only of public interest in the abstract but is highly critical to the ongoing oversight work of the federal Congress.

It is already public that one of Jack Smith's deputies, Karen Gilbert, resigned in 2009 from her position as head of the narcotics section of the United States Attorney's Office for the Southern District of Florida after misconduct which DOJ stated it "deeply regrets" and which cost the American taxpayer over $600,000 in a settlement.1 This misconduct was both referred to the DOJ Office of Professional Responsibility and the Florida Bar. Furthermore, Federal Election Commission records indicate that Ms. Gilbert has made thousands of dollars in donations to "Biden for President," "Obama for America," the "DNC Victory Fund," "Obama Victory Fund 2012," and associated partisan organizations.

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Manhattan said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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eric76 said:

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More importantly, can a President magically pardon himself just by thinking it in the same way that some say he can declassify documents just by thinking it?

---

I know this is REALLY difficult. The POTUS is THE Executive Branch. He can declassify anything. Laws passed by Congress regarding classification do not impact him. "Rules" put in place by employees of the Executive Branch do not apply to him. HE does not work under those people's authority.

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Why are we still discussing this when the FBI had recorded audio that Trump didn't declassify?

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It doesn't even matter what he says. The act of him having them is declassification. He has no hoops to jump through. His authority is constitutional, not granted by some department.

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Quote:

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The goalposts have moved quite far.

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Bryanisbest said:

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fc2112 said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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It doesn't even matter what he says. The act of him having them is was declassification. He has had no hoops to jump through. His authority is was constitutional, not granted by some department.

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Fixed your post for when he was president.

At the time of the incident he was criminally charged over, he was not president and not empowered to do any of those things.

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Except he was president when he took them out of White House to Mar a lago when he was still empowered. The crucial moment and act per the PRA occurred while he was still president.

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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fc2112 said:

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At the time of the incident he was criminally charged over, he was not president and not empowered to do any of those things.

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He was President when he acquired the documents, unlike the ****** you voted for.

Everything else is bull*****

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Quote:

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The goalposts have moved quite far.

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My goalposts have never moved. The President's constitutional authority does not hinge on some leftist bureaucrat with no authority.

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Manhattan said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Quote:

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The goalposts have moved quite far.

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My goalposts have never moved. The President's constitutional authority does not hinge on some leftist bureaucrat with no authority.

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He wasn't the president when he was admittedly waving around non declassified, classified national security information around his golf club, for clout.

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Maddow: Trump Can “Avoid Jail Time” by Dropping Out of 2024 Presidential Race https://t.co/uIwbVlMUjA

— 🇺🇸🇺🇸Josh Dunlap🇺🇲🇺🇲 ULTRA-MAGA (@JDunlap1974) June 15, 2023

the_batman26 said:

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The bureaucracy got its feelings hurt, clearly.

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Quote:

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When members of the White House Office of Records Management came for a tour of the archives near the end of his term, Ferriero had a special gift for longtime director Philip Droege.

"I presented Phil with a plunger with his name on it," he said.

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Rockdoc said:

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Annie, don't bother the liberals on here. They're having too much fun.

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TXAggie2011 said:

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That's a really bad take from Mr. Davis. The PRA does not say anywhere that documents not designated as Presidential or Personal default to Personal. That's a completely made up assertion.

And, by the way, if the Trump White House produced some sort of guidance or general rule stating as much, that would be subject to judicial review that the guidance is in accordance with the language of the PRA under the Armstrong cases (and the case he mentions in that tweet.)

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He's misreading and taking "available" out of the context. (1)The PRA also talks about making Presidential records "available" to the public and none of us have the right to go take documents from a Presidential Library home and keep them at our house. That's just not what "available" means. (2) That reading of "available" by Mr. Davis is completely at odds with the rest of the regulatory scheme under the PRA, which says the President doesn't own them, that the records are to go to a NARA facility, etc., etc., etc.

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