Trump indicted over classified documents

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10:54p, 6/9/23
I'll go on record that we won't see a final resolution of this case for a minimum of 3-years. Minimum.

If the democrats retain power, .... which I think they will do,

66% chance Trump goes to jail for some amount of time.

33% percent chance the case is rendered moot by the course of nature.

1% chance that something crazy happens that we haven't even thought of yet.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 11:03p, 6/9/23
AG
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
I'll go on record that we won't see a final resolution of this case for a minimum of 3-years. Minimum.

If the democrats retain power, .... which I think they will do,

66% chance Trump goes to jail for some amount of time.

33% percent chance the case is rendered moot by the course of nature.

1% chance that something crazy happens that we haven't even thought of yet.
Depends on how Judge Cannon reads the PRA and the precedents under it.

Were I a judge in her shoes? I'd ask the prosecution a few questions about how and where they obtained the evidence they claimed in the indictment. Read like SIGINT. Which of course would be illegal.
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Fido04
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In reply to aggiehawg • 11:06p, 6/9/23
AG
What specific evidence did they obtain illegally?
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aggiehawg
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In reply to Fido04 • 11:10p, 6/9/23
AG
Fido04 said:
What specific evidence did they obtain illegally?
Gee, I don't know yet. But times, dates and duration of cell phone calls down to the seconds in length suggests something, right?

Ever heard of FISA?
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11:32p, 6/9/23
A lot of moving parts to this. This will be drug out for years.

We'll be hearing about Trump generally, and this case for a minimum of 3-more years. Non-stop.

At least 1/4 of the news media will be talking about Trump at any given time.

Sports
Weather
Local news
Trump

That's all you'll get out of the media for the next 3-years. Same as it's been for the last seven.

Trump drives ratings. Trump moves the needle. And ultimately Trump keeps the lights on for the MSM. A lot of people happy about this development.

So Trump getting indicted is Trump saving and creating jobs.

Some of these MSM folks owe their living to Trump. If it wasn't for Donald trump they wouldn't have. a job. They wouldn't have nothing to write about. they;'d have nothing original to comment on. They'd get stuck on trans people or abortion. So they love to have Donald trump. Hot takes on trump will make or break a person in 2023
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Fido04
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In reply to aggiehawg • 11:33p, 6/9/23
AG
I am not making claims to know what is in it. You are suggesting evidence was obtained illegally.
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11:40p, 6/9/23
How would we not assume that at least some evidence obtained against Trump was obtained illegally.

They wiretapped Trump tower during the 2015 campaign.

Nothing ever happened with it.

Why we assuming anythign to do with Trump is on the up-and-up.

Some of y'all are so out there I'm tired of telling you what to do all the time. It's exhausting.

A solid contingent of y'all are monkeys throwin' poop.

We get that. But just try and work with us here.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to Fido04 • 11:42p, 6/9/23
AG
Fido04 said:
I am not making claims to know what is in it. You are suggesting evidence was obtained illegally.
And you are saying you know it was all obtained legally. But you know that 13,000 items were taken from MAL, including attorney client communications, Execitive Privileged comms, and so forth.

DOJ swore they had "taint teams" but that indictment goes into detail of comminications between Trum and lawyers.

I know you only want Trump to go to jail because you are a partisan. I want Trump to go to jail, WHEN he actually does something worthy of a prison sentence.

In the meantime. Defend Biden getting 5 million to fire Shokin.
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TRADUCTOR
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11:52p, 6/9/23
HONK! HONK! the clown world goes.
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Foreverconservative
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11:55p, 6/9/23
Still curious about this

https://rumble.com/embed/v2qj1dw/?pub=4
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Fido04
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In reply to aggiehawg • 12:05a, 6/10/23
AG
aggiehawg said:
Fido04 said:
I am not making claims to know what is in it. You are suggesting evidence was obtained illegally.
And you are saying you know it was all obtained legally. But you know that 13,000 items were taken from MAL, including attorney client communications, Execitive Privileged comms, and so forth.

DOJ swore they had "taint teams" but that indictment goes into detail of comminications between Trum and lawyers.



How do you know the communications referenced in the indictment were obtained from the MAL search and not some other GJ authorized search warrant?
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pagerman @ work
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In reply to aggiehawg • 12:32a, 6/10/23
AG
aggiehawg said:
Fido04 said:
I am not making claims to know what is in it. You are suggesting evidence was obtained illegally.
And you are saying you know it was all obtained legally. But you know that 13,000 items were taken from MAL, including attorney client communications, Execitive Privileged comms, and so forth.

DOJ swore they had "taint teams" but that indictment goes into detail of comminications between Trum and lawyers.

I know you only want Trump to go to jail because you are a partisan. I want Trump to go to jail, WHEN he actually does something worthy of a prison sentence.

In the meantime. Defend Biden getting 5 million to fire Shokin.

I don't find it at all difficult to believe DOJ had "taint teams".

That said, I think the possessed of classified documents thing is a giant nothing, given that past presidents have done that exact thing in the past with zero consequences much less indictments.

To me, the exposure Trump has would seem to be communicating classified information to people that aren't authorized to know it, particularly if they have people providing transcripts or recordings of conversations where he admits to doing so and knows he is not allowed to do so but is doing so anyway.

That said, if that information was collected illegally then all bets are off.
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Bill Clinternet
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1:42a, 6/10/23
AG
If you take the time to read the indictment, any fair-minded observer will conclude the evidence is overwhelming. Donald Trump admits to committing nearly every crime that appears in the indictment.

Read the full indictment text from the classified document probe (nbcnews.com)
"I am neither an Athenian nor a Greek, but a citizen of the world"-Plato, attributed to Socrates, Theaetetus-
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LMCane
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In reply to Fido04 • 3:48a, 6/10/23
Fido04 said:
aggiehawg said:
Fido04 said:
I am not making claims to know what is in it. You are suggesting evidence was obtained illegally.
And you are saying you know it was all obtained legally. But you know that 13,000 items were taken from MAL, including attorney client communications, Execitive Privileged comms, and so forth.

DOJ swore they had "taint teams" but that indictment goes into detail of comminications between Trum and lawyers.



How do you know the communications referenced in the indictment were obtained from the MAL search and not some other GJ authorized search warrant?

He/She doesn't know anything more than the rest of us-

it's called "guessing" and pretending

that there is some secret trove of information that no one knows about other than the poster.
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LMCane
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In reply to Bill Clinternet • 4:00a, 6/10/23
Bill Clinternet said:
If you take the time to read the indictment, any fair-minded observer will conclude the evidence is overwhelming. Donald Trump admits to committing nearly every crime that appears in the indictment.

Read the full indictment text from the classified document probe (nbcnews.com)


From the actual indictment:

"Over the course of his presidency, Trump stored over 100 classified documents in boxes including:

information regarding defense and weapons capabilities of the United States and other countries;

United States Nuclear programs;

potential vulnerabilities of the United States and it's allies to enemy attack;

and plans for retaliation in the event of enemy attack."
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LMCane
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4:08a, 6/10/23
obviously many people around Trump have turned on him and are cooperating with the Federal investigation:

On two separate occassions, after he had been defeated by Joe Biden and was no longer the President-

Trump discussed Secret level attack plans with political cronies, writers of books, and others who had no security clearances.

At this time, Trump told them he could have declassified the documents when he was president, but that it was too late now so they had to "keep it secret."

On several other occassions, Trump told his personal attorneys to obstruct the DOJ and FBI investigation by telling the USG that they did not possess any of the documents in question.

Trump also instructed his aide Waltine Nauta to hide the boxes from his own attorneys and the government.

Hence, Nauta is also a criminal defendant- and likely is taking a plea deal to convict Trump with his own testimony.


[Make the arguments without insults. This goes for everyone posting on this thread. We are done trying to clean this thread up and keep the discussion on the topic going. We will just start deleting entire strings of discussion and giving timeouts to all users with even a hint of insults. Help us not lock this thread by sticking to arguing your points. No more insults - Staff]
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RoadkillBBQ
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In reply to Fido04 • 5:39a, 6/10/23
Fido04 said:
I am not making claims to know what is in it. You are suggesting evidence was obtained illegally.
It's the FBI and DOJ being controlled by God knows who through the Biden Administration.
Damn straight the evidence was likely obtained illegally or even completely fabricated.

That's the very root of the issue here. This isn't about Trump. He's just the figurehead here. This is political persecution by one political party against another using weaponized federal law enforcement assets.

This has similarities to the Soviet Union of the 1920s and 1930s Germany. We just haven't started the political assassinations yet.
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RoadkillBBQ
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In reply to Bill Clinternet • 5:52a, 6/10/23
Bill Clinternet said:
If you take the time to read the indictment, any fair-minded observer will conclude the evidence is overwhelming. Donald Trump admits to committing nearly every crime that appears in the indictment.

Read the full indictment text from the classified document probe (nbcnews.com)
Some of us might be a little more fair minded if this wasn't the umpteenth time a corrupt establishment has went after Trump in the last 7 years.
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fka ftc
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In reply to will25u • 7:13a, 6/10/23
will25u said:
Anyone see anything about this?



And CNN gets away with "supposed" transcript from a "source close to the investigation".

Whomever leaked to CNN the existence of any tape recordings committed a CRIME. Someone on Smith's team needs to go to jail.

And for the LM Canes of the world, this is why those who do not support Trump should not be gleeful on this crap.

One day, the Gustavo will come for you.
"The absence of the word accountability is not the same as wanting no accountability" -unknown

"You can never go wrong by staying silent if there is nothing apt to say" -Walter Isaacson
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Im Gipper
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8:05a, 6/10/23
[Interesting topic. Just not one that belongs on this thread. - Staff]
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Aggie Apotheosis
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8:20a, 6/10/23
Trump is the best witness for the prosecution.


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ThunderCougarFalconBird
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In reply to aggiehawg • 8:29a, 6/10/23
AG
aggiehawg said:
Fido04 said:
I am not making claims to know what is in it. You are suggesting evidence was obtained illegally.
And you are saying you know it was all obtained legally. But you know that 13,000 items were taken from MAL, including attorney client communications, Execitive Privileged comms, and so forth.

DOJ swore they had "taint teams" but that indictment goes into detail of comminications between Trum and lawyers.

I know you only want Trump to go to jail because you are a partisan. I want Trump to go to jail, WHEN he actually does something worthy of a prison sentence.

In the meantime. Defend Biden getting 5 million to fire Shokin.
the problem here isn't the crimes alleged. It's the optics of the whole thing.

The leftists are here screaming about some ticky tack crime because they don't want to acknowledge the truth: their hatred for Trump outstrips even their sense of basic civics.

For all of the classified secrets in these documents, they never seem to acknowledge that information exists in a place they can't control: trump's brain. Is it a crime if he talks about what he knows?
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Im Gipper
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8:29a, 6/10/23
Jokes aside, what's the defense for the allegation Trump instructed his valet to hide documents that were subpoenaed?

If that's true, don't see what Trump can claim to make that not a crime.

I'm Gipper
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Ag with kids
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In reply to ThunderCougarFalconBird • 8:42a, 6/10/23
AG
ThunderCougarFalconBird said:
aggiehawg said:
Fido04 said:
I am not making claims to know what is in it. You are suggesting evidence was obtained illegally.
And you are saying you know it was all obtained legally. But you know that 13,000 items were taken from MAL, including attorney client communications, Execitive Privileged comms, and so forth.

DOJ swore they had "taint teams" but that indictment goes into detail of comminications between Trum and lawyers.

I know you only want Trump to go to jail because you are a partisan. I want Trump to go to jail, WHEN he actually does something worthy of a prison sentence.

In the meantime. Defend Biden getting 5 million to fire Shokin.
the problem here isn't the crimes alleged. It's the optics of the whole thing.

The leftists are here screaming about some ticky tack crime because they don't want to acknowledge the truth: their hatred for Trump outstrips even their sense of basic civics.

For all of the classified secrets in these documents, they never seem to acknowledge that information exists in a place they can't control: trump's brain. Is it a crime if he talks about what he knows?
Technically, yeah...
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jrdaustin
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In reply to Im Gipper • 8:48a, 6/10/23
AG
Im Gipper said:
Jokes aside, what's the defense for the allegation Trump instructed his valet to hide documents that were subpoenaed?

If that's true, don't see what Trump can claim to make that not a crime.
And yet, Hillary instructed her aides to wipe hard drives, delete emails, and hammer cell phones to bits to hide - nay, DESTROY, documents that were under subpoena.

And she was given a complete pass.

Not condoning what Trump may have done, but the defense is that a president has been set with respect to high ranking public officials.

If you're going to give that kind of pass to a former Secretary of State, I'll expect the same deference to a former POTUS. Equal protections and the like - especially when PRA supercedes Espionage Act in Trump's case, but not Hillary's.
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solishu
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In reply to will25u • 8:49a, 6/10/23
AG
Nice cope.
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Im Gipper
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In reply to jrdaustin • 8:50a, 6/10/23
Hillary should be in jail. I think any honest person here wouid admit that.

Unfortunately, saying "Hillary did it too" isn't a legal basis for Trump to escape the charges.

I'm Gipper
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fka ftc
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In reply to Im Gipper • 8:52a, 6/10/23
Since our legal system is based on common law, then it most certainly is a valid legal argument.
"The absence of the word accountability is not the same as wanting no accountability" -unknown

"You can never go wrong by staying silent if there is nothing apt to say" -Walter Isaacson
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jrdaustin
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In reply to Im Gipper • 8:53a, 6/10/23
AG
Im Gipper said:
Hillary should be in jail. I think any honest person here wouid admit that.

Unfortunately, saying "Hillary did it too" isn't a legal basis for Trump to escape the charges.
But she isn't. And not because she was acquitted. It's because DOJ declined to prosecute.

I would argue that treatment - or non-treatment - of Hillary's situation by the same DOJ could have set legal precedent for high ranking public officials.
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Im Gipper
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In reply to jrdaustin • 8:56a, 6/10/23
"Someone else did not get prosecuted for something similar" is not a legal defense. Also, it was Trump's DoJt hat didn't prosecute.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38069585

It's been a while, did Hillary wipe the server after getting a subpoena?

I'm Gipper
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Funky Winkerbean
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In reply to Im Gipper • 8:56a, 6/10/23
AG
Im Gipper said:
Jokes aside, what's the defense for the allegation Trump instructed his valet to hide documents that were subpoenaed?

If that's true, don't see what Trump can claim to make that not a crime.


What can Joe and Hunter claim in regards to the allegations against them?
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Im Gipper
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In reply to Funky Winkerbean • 8:58a, 6/10/23
Funky Winkerbean said:
Im Gipper said:
Jokes aside, what's the defense for the allegation Trump instructed his valet to hide documents that were subpoenaed?

If that's true, don't see what Trump can claim to make that not a crime.


What can Joe and Hunter claim in regards to the allegations against them?


From what I've seen, they are guilty as hell.

I'm Gipper
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SA68AG
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9:10a, 6/10/23
AG
As the facts are uncovered , we will once again see that Trump is his own worst enemy.

For the good of the country, I wish that he would pull out of the race so the Republicans will be able to focus on issues and Biden rather than Trump. Trump should tell his supporters that he will endorse whoever wins the nomination and leave it at that.
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jrdaustin
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In reply to Im Gipper • 9:12a, 6/10/23
AG
Im Gipper said:
"Someone else did not get prosecuted for something similar" is not a legal defense. Also, it was Trump's DoJt hat didn't prosecute.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38069585

It's been a while, did Hillary wipe the server after getting a subpoena?
Here's where we disagree.

Your argument makes sense in common practice, such as a speeding ticket, but this is a massively different scenario.

This is a political prosecution relying on a novel legal theory that has never been applied to one of the top three or four government officials in the country.

There is precedent even before Hillary of not criminalizing handling of classified documents in what is not a true Espionage situation. Trump has been singled out, and any argument otherwise is an attempt to split hairs.
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GeorgiAg
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In reply to Funky Winkerbean • 9:16a, 6/10/23
AG
Funky Winkerbean said:
Im Gipper said:
Jokes aside, what's the defense for the allegation Trump instructed his valet to hide documents that were subpoenaed?

If that's true, don't see what Trump can claim to make that not a crime.


What can Joe and Hunter claim in regards to the allegations against them?


Throw them all in jail, enact term limits and prohibit individual stock investing by anyone in public office.
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