It's almost as if some people can't comprehend the fact that you can mismanage a roster while still producing acceptable results in the short term.

My fear is that we are crippling our long term prospects in favor a short term run that is not as close to the pinnacle as some people here believe it is.

People keep throwing these 100 loss clubs out like the rangers would be destined for 100 losses if they attempted a rebuild. No one is saying tank for 5 years to restock the farm system. It's about moving the pieces which won't be here much longer for pieces you can build around for the future while you still have control over them.

I'm not afraid of the window closing with the current management and ownership. People thought it was closed in 2013-2014, yet they retooled and made the playoffs twice, including best record in the league. And did so in spite of several moves that did not work out. It didn't take perfection or lightning striking to do it.

Kampfers said:

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It's almost as if some people can't comprehend the fact that you can mismanage a roster while still producing acceptable results in the short term.

My fear is that we are crippling our long term prospects in favor a short term run that is not as close to the pinnacle as some people here believe it is.

People keep throwing these 100 loss clubs out like the rangers would be destined for 100 losses if they attempted a rebuild. No one is saying tank for 5 years to restock the farm system. It's about moving the pieces which won't be here much longer for pieces you can build around for the future while you still have control over them.

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Except it hasn't been short-term. Texas has been one of the most consistently good teams in baseball the last 7 years. During that time, save for Elvis Andrus, they have completely turned over almost the entire roster.

What long-term prospects do you see as being crippled? Would you have been happier to miss the playoffs in 2015 and 2016 if it mean holding on to the prospects that we traded for Hamels/Lucroy/Diekman/Jeffress? Mind you none of those prospects have actually produced on the big league level yet.

Is it better to hold onto them? Profar and Gallo certainly haven't improved their value.

Now if you're talking rentals like Garza and Dempster -- yeah what we gave away hurt and we didn't get what we were looking for in return. But in 2012 we were on pace for 95 wins when we traded for Dempster... Adding what looked like a legit starter to a team on pace to win 95 games... Hard to fault that -- when you have a chance, you go for it.

2013 is the only year I felt like Daniels made a mistake, adding a good but not great starter like Garza to a team that was 4 games back... But even then, we made the playoffs. Mike Olt has turned into a bust. Justin Grimm was great in 2015, but mediocre last year and in 2014... Verdict still out on him. CJ Edwards hurt, no doubt.

I think we're all for moving pieces that won't be here much longer for future pieces -- but you do that when they are expendable, and when you're putting a 95 win team out on the field they aren't.

I think you are looking at what happened last year and using it as proof that the team wasn't built to win. In a 5 game series Cole Hamels went 3.1IP/6ER and Yu Darvish went 5.0IP/5ER. So unless you had visions of a team where Cole Hamels was a #3 starter and Yu Darvish was a #4 starter, then that outcome wasn't going to change. That's not roster mismanagement, that's just how a short series in playoff baseball go.

The goal is to win the World Series. You don't take a very good team and trade a piece of it away so that in future years you might be a very good team. If Texas was fielding a 0.500ish ballclub and holding onto their stars (like they did before the arrival of Daniels), then you'd have a point. But this is one of the most successful teams over the last 7 years -- it's been the polar opposite of roster mismanagement.

Cowlishaw brought up an interesting trade scenario between the Dodgers and Rangers.

Kershaw for Darvish, Odor/ Profar, and a reliever.

I'd be all for that, preferably for Profar and not Odor.

gigem1223 said:

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Cowlishaw brought up an interesting trade scenario between the Dodgers and Rangers.

Kershaw for Darvish, Odor/ Profar, and a reliever.

I'd be all for that, preferably for Profar and not Odor.

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So based on contracts:

1 year of Darvish, 3 years of Profar, a reliever and $55 million for 2 years of Kershaw.

Not sure that really helps either team.

And now we traded Luke Jackson to the Braves for prospects. WTF are we doing this off season? Did Jackson fall off that much in their eyes? I guess it doesn't really matter, this franchise develops pitchers like the browns develop QB's.

roginaustin said:

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And now we traded Luke Jackson to the Braves for prospects. WTF are we doing this off season? Did Jackson fall off that much in their eyes? I guess it doesn't really matter, this franchise develops pitchers like the browns develop QB's.

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From what I saw, the Jenkins kid from the Braves was one of their top 10 prospects last year. The other guy, based on looking at his stats, looks like he's battled injuries the past couple seasons. Is Luke Jackson really a better prospect than Jenkins? They both pitched in the bigs last year, with Jenkins performing much better. Looks like he had a better year in the minors as well.

On the surface, this looks like swapping relatively equal prospects and taking a flyer on an injury risk to add depth to their pitching prospects.

Luke Jackson: http://m.milb.com/milb/player/592426
Tyrell Jenkins: http://m.milb.com/milb/player/592433
Brady Feigl: http://m.milb.com/milb/player/621399

I like the Jenkins trade. We got the younger piece with a larger frame and very similar results to date. We also got a throw in bullpen piece. At this point they are all lottery tickets.

Yeah, hard to get upset if you're either team with a trade like that. Trading lottery tickets for lottery tickets.

IIRC, The radio was saying that since JD took over the Rangers... no other MLB team has won as many games as the Rangers.

We have traded premium talent and still won more games than anyone else.

We are not AS stocked as we could be... but we are still pretty stout with prospects. Plenty with high ceilings and high floors, just not as many as we've had.

If Gallo gets the nod at 1B, the Rangers will have (7) Gallo, Odor, Profar, Andrus, Mazara, Rua, Nicholas

Added (6): Lucroy, Chirinos, Beltre, Gomez*, DeShields*, Choo

The names on the backs of the jerseys are entirely different from 2011 and the team is still winning. At some point, you have to give the scouting dept credit to be able to restock those prospects as they did before vs. just assuming the well goes dry because you traded quite a few.

roginaustin said:

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And now we traded Luke Jackson to the Braves for prospects. WTF are we doing this off season? Did Jackson fall off that much in their eyes? I guess it doesn't really matter, this franchise develops pitchers like the browns develop QB's.

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There are several pitchers, like Eickhoff that runs contrary to your "develops" comment. He was traded July 31, 2015. He has a Career MLB record of 41 GS, 3.44 ERA, 1.136 WHIP with 197.1 IP and 167 SO. His debut was August 21... merely 3 weeks after the trade. He was drafted by the Rangers in 2011. Alexi Ogando was a Rule V OF whom the Rangers converted to a RP. Martin Perez.

SP is a really tough position to draft, develop and keep.

For players 18 or younger, you get 5 years before they are exposed to Rule V. 19 and oler are 4 years.

So, if you draft a 17/18 year old kid out of HS in the US, you are looking at having him until he is 22 or 23 years old before you have to ride him on the 40 Man roster. You have very few pitchers who ready to contribute at 23.

The Rangers have to manage players. When we had 10+/- guys on the DL... you have 25 Active, that leaves 5 spots to hide guys.

That leads to having to swap players. You get guys like AJG and lose players.

Regarding Luke Jackson. As a RP, he doesn't have a spot in 2017. We are loaded at RP

RHP (7): Barnette, Bush, Dyson, Jeffress, Kela, Leclerc, Scheppers
LHP (4): Alvarez, Claudio, Diekman, Faulkner

Jackson has 1 option left for 2017.

One option for JD would be to trade players nearing MLB who might not have a path forward, and trading him for younger higher ceiling talent. I don't know that is what was done here, but done a pretty good job balancing talent. I totally thought we'd lose several players in the Rule V.

RANGERS RE-SIGN FREE AGENT OUTFIELDER CARLOS GOMEZ TO ONE-YEAR CONTRACT
RHP Brady Dragmire designated for assignment

Arlington, Texas The Texas Rangers today announced that the club has re-signed free agent outfielder Carlos Gomez to a one-year contract for the 2017 season. Financial terms were not disclosed, per club policy.

To make room on the 40-man roster for Gomez, the Rangers have designated right-handed pitcher Brady Dragmire for assignment.

The 31-year-old Gomez batted .284 (33-116) with 8 home runs and 24 RBI over 33 games with Texas to finish the 2016 season. He signed a minor league contract with the Rangers on August 20 and had his contract purchased from Triple-A Round Rock on August 25, finishing the season as the team's primary leftfielder and leadoff batter with starts in left (24), right (5), and center (3).

During his time with the club, Gomez ranked among team leaders in walks (T1st, 13), stolen bases (2nd, 5), RBI (T2nd), home runs (3rd), OPS (3rd, .905), and on-base percentage (3rd, .362). Overall last season with the Astros and Rangers, he combined to bat .231 with 13 home runs and 53 RBI in 118 games.

Since the start of 2013, Gomez (72 HR/255 RBI/109 SB) is the only major league player with at least 70 home runs, 250 RBI, and 100 stolen bases. He was selected as a National League All-Star in both 2013 and 2014 with Milwaukee, winning a Gold Glove Award as a centerfielder in 2013.

Gomez has a career average of .257 with 116 homers, 453 RBI, and 239 stolen bases in 1204 major league games with the Mets (2007), Twins (2008-2009), Brewers (2010-15), Astros (2015-16), and Rangers (2016). He has recorded 30+ stolen bases in a season four times in his big league career. Of his 991 career outfield starts, 927 have been as a centerfielder.

Dragmire, 23, was received from the Pittsburgh Pirates in a December 2 waiver claim. The Rangers have 10 days to trade, release, or outright Dragmire to the minor leagues. He went 4-6 with a 4.38 ERA (35 ER/72.0 IP) over 45 relief appearances with New Hampshire in the Eastern League in 2016, his first career action at the Double-A level.

With today's moves, the Rangers' major league roster remains at the 40-man limit.

Some ramblings.

JD mentioned they are still in contact with Colby. It sounds like they are trying to figure out if he'll be a part of the team in 2017. Believes he is an option with ability. Not sure there will be a spot (I'm guessing Rangers looking at adding someone) balanced with what he is asking for ($$$).

Bannister was on the radio, yesterday. The context of the conversation was about how will the Rangers improve for 2017. He said he believes Lucroy is underestimated. That he had a brief window last season, and with an offseason, he'lll be a major role in 2017 with the Rangers SP and offensively knowing the AL pitchers better. He said in 2016, he was able to learn what the SP had in terms of ability and reportoire. For 2017, he expects Lucroy to be better aware of the mental and psychological ability to deal with the staff. He inidcated that Carlos Gomez has much to prove and that he things he is better than he showed. He said Rua has the ability to step up and with power and needs to show it in 2017. He said DeShields is slimming down to the weight he was in 2015, when he helped the team and that he should play a role. He expects Mazara to improve. He thought he was one of the 2 best rookies and that he needs to continue to improve. He didn't mention Choo and it sounded like the OF for 2017 is on the team. Lots of coach speak and sending messages to his players publicly.

The Nationals are funny to watch. See Rangers in '90s. They traded for Eaton in a bit of panic. In doing so, Danny Espinosa found himself moved from SS to Utility IF... to being a Halo.

The Halos are a terrible organization. They now have Simmons (SS) and Espinosa (2B) as MIFs.

Simmons (26) is a career .261, with no power (5HR/yr for the past 3 years) and limited speed on the bases (19SB/9CS in the past 3 years). He provides a .308 OBP.

Espinosa (29) is well, a Utility IF. His career .226 BA and .302 OBP, coupled with 45 HRs and 22 SBs with 5 CS over the past 3 years doesn't strike fear.

Their hope in their rotation is Nolasco (34) and Richards (28-DL60) combined for 17 GS in 2016. They really don't have help in their minors. They pay $52M split between Pujols (36) and Hamilton.

Rangers and SP: I think the Rangers will add a few flyers for SP. Thoughts about Greinke? What a terrible contract that appears to be. Arizona gave him 6yr/$206M. He has completed his 1st year (4.27 ERA) and still has 5 more years at ~ $34.5M per. He is such a mental case, but every time I write him off, he figures it out and turns it around. How much would you want Az to pay, in order to take Greinke? Tyson Ross' name is out there. He had Thoracic Outlet. Same as Matt Harrison. Speaking of Harrison, he was released by Philly.

So far not a good offseason for Texas -- Houston has improved, Seattle has improved... Texas hasn't done much of anything.

Still have faith in JD, but a little surprised by the lack of moves so far this offseason

I think JD was letting the high dollar free agents fall where they were going to fall, and now is eyeballing the remaining free agents as their prices begin to drop. He'll pull in a free agent or two (even if it's a one year rental like Desmond last year), and then possibly make a trade as well. The trade will depend on the free agents he pulls in. Basically he's value shopping right now, at least that is the way I see it.

It is kind of crazy how Encarnacion still isn't signed by anyone. If the price lowers enough he would be a pretty big time signing IMO

JD has tended to be the late shopper, and he's been fairly effective at it. Still quite a bit of dust to settle.

Dutch to White Sox
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/18277572/former-texas-rangers-pitcher-derek-holland-agrees-deal-chicago-white-sox

twilly said:

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Dutch to White Sox
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/18277572/former-texas-rangers-pitcher-derek-holland-agrees-deal-chicago-white-sox

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Can't say I'm going to miss him, though I'm sure his Harry Caray impression will go over really well with the Chi Sox fans

I'll never forget his game 4 in the 2011 WS. Unreal. That was his peak.

I drove bus said:

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I'll never forget his game 4 in the 2011 WS. Unreal. That was his peak.

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Agreed, he showed flashes of brilliance during his time here, unfortunately he's been injury prone and inconsistent the last few years

Yep. And I have no problem with him being gone. But that game, and even the two innings he pitched in game 6, he was great. The way he was rolling I've always contested had Wash left him in for the 9th rangers win WS.

I'd like to see Holland get it rolling and agree he is a change of scenery candidate.

JD was on the radio today. He seemed to imply they would really like to see some where some players are... like Profar and Rua. He also seemed to imply the OF will roll as is. When it came to 1B, that was where Profar and Rua were mentioned as options, along with Gallo (in the future) and mentioned Guzman (in the future). He didn't rule out acquisition and hinted it was a possibility. I suppose you are mixed between having 2 guys 1-2 years away vs signing a guy for 4 to 5 yrs, knowing you have future optiobs.

He also mentioned having moved Drew Robinson from MIF to OF. Indicated he was in RF, had plus arm and when they moved him to CF, all reports are he is a natural. He is curious to see what Robinson brings.

So, you need for OF and 1B, with a number of options. I need to look at Robinson, again as an OF. Philly took Odubel from our MIF depth via Rule V. I wonder if that is how Robinson may end up and if that was motivation to try him.

Holland at the $11m/year option? I could have gone either way (though it's not my money).

But 1 year at $6m that he just signed? I would have taken that in a heartbeat.

Looks like A) the market wasn't that strong for Holland and B) he decided he wanted a change of scenery.

Holland is a 30 year old who is sometimes healthy and sometimes pitches well when he's healthy. No one is really looking to sign that crap for $11 million---that's not nearly the kind of throw away money some folks think it is. Most starting pitchers aren't signing for $11 million a year.

Yovani Gallardo is fairly instructive for what gets you to that level: He came out of Texas and got $11 million/year---he was healthy and he performed reasonably well, both in 2015 and prior to that in Milwaukee.

At the one year contract, Hisashi Iwakuma is instructive. Got the hometown boost to a $12 million contract having had pretty terrific stats and just not-all-that-major lat and a finger injuries on his resume.

The market passed Holland over for guys who have been healthier and in, say, Bartolo Colon's case, performed better to boot.

Charlie Morton got 2 years at $7 million each...but his injury was lower body. Holland has had shoulder and elbow injuries the past two seasons. Holland maybe works his way into a similar contract if he had kept the upper body healthier.

Everyone is still confused as to how Andrew Cashner got $10 million---but he was healthy and the more I look at it, the more I think the Rangers kind of got pushed a bit into a corner there after a string of the more affordable, but decent free agents left the market (Hellickson, Colon, Dickey, and Morton all signed in the week prior). The options were thinning quickly, particularly if you didn't want to go for a bigger contract.

Considering Texas paid $1.5m just to get out of it, you're talking an extra $9.5m simply to have another option at the back end of the rotation. Texas just gave Cashner $10m for the same chance.

1-year deals don't really hamstring your club, which is why I would have been fine either way. Not saying it would be a good deal, but decent upside, and little downside.

Holland has lost 2-3mph off his fastball since 2013 and his hard slider has gotten closer to his fastball in speed. He's getting hit hard pretty consistently. For one year either way, I'd rather take a flyer on Cashner.

free_mhayden said:

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Considering Texas paid $1.5m just to get out of it, you're talking an extra $9.5m simply to have another option at the back end of the rotation. Texas just gave Cashner $10m for the same chance.

1-year deals don't really hamstring your club, which is why I would have been fine either way. Not saying it would be a good deal, but decent upside, and little downside.

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Its not so much about "hamstringing you"", but more about there being a number of guys that you can fill that roster spot (and that money on), and making a choice among those players. There's an opportunity cost that isn't unsubstantial if you at all expect to be in the playoff race.

Cashner at $10 million is a market outlier, which again, I think may have been helped along by the timing of events that week in November.

That's fair to set the bar at $9.5 million but the fact is a huge number of free agents will still be available for equal or less money. A guy who has struggled to stay healthy and has struggled to perform is going to get passed over by many clubs because they want to take their flyer on a guy who has been healthier and/or performed better.

I wish Holland all the best.