I agree.Jabin said:
Well, there has been this thing called the "Delta variant" that's occurred since then, as well.
88planoAg said:I agree.Jabin said:
Well, there has been this thing called the "Delta variant" that's occurred since then, as well.
I'm not disputing that the message has changed.
But people are claiming that the message was never that the vaccine was a guarantee against hospitalization and death. That is not true.
I think they were and are. They love it that they can point to any amount of failure and blame that for not taking it. They're the worst about Fear Porn - the vaccine does nothing and might have LoNg TeRm SiDe EfFeCtS!Proposition Joe said:
If I didn't know any better I'd almost think some people were actively rooting for the vaccine to fail.
2 weeks to flatten the curvedouble aught said:
I think your memory is failing you. There were never any guarantees.
I am dumbfounded people don't understand the economics of this. Every time I bring it up it's completely ignored yet it's a huge cloud hanging over this country.traxter said:Romello said:
The unvaccinated affect the most influential lobbyists in DC, the insurance lobbyists. They don't want to continue to pay out huge medical bills. It's really that simple.
You do realize they're just going to turn around and increase our premiums. So it really affects all of us. Plus tax payers are on the hook for the uninsured.
88planoAg said:
I feel the need to type more slowly. Please read what I am saying.
I am not claiming we were lied to.
There are people in this discussion who are claiming that never was it said that the vaccine would prevent hospitalization and death.
I've provided evidence that, in fact, the above was stated. The media message early in 2021 was in fact that the vaccines will prevent hospitalizations and death.
I am not angry. I acknowledge that the variants changed the message.
However to say that the media NEVER said the vaccines would protect you is false. The media and the CDC said that the vaccines would prevent hospitalizations and death. They said it over and over again.
One more time:
1. People here on this thread have denied that the message in the early days of the vaccine was that it would protect you from hospitalization and death.
2. I provided evidence that the message in the early days WAS that the vaccines would protect you from hospitalization and death.
3. now people are saying that I misinterpreted something, that the early messages didn't imply anything about the variants, that I am mad that I was lied to....
4. my memory is accurate. The early reporting was that the vaccines would protect you.
SoupNazi2001 said:Proposition Joe said:88planoAg said:I agree.Jabin said:
Well, there has been this thing called the "Delta variant" that's occurred since then, as well.
I'm not disputing that the message has changed.
But people are claiming that the message was never that the vaccine was a guarantee against hospitalization and death. That is not true.
The message was that in COVID's current form when the vaccines were developed, it was highly effective against death.
If you want to revise history and say the message was it would prevent any and all deaths of any variant or mutation of COVID that occurred, well then that's a failure on your part to understand.
Wait a minute. We know viruses mutate and variants are created. It happens to the flu every year which is why the flu vaccine isn't that effective. None of this is new yet the messaging for some reason didn't predict this even though many smart people knew it would happen. The messaging was get your vaccine and things will return to normal. The vaccine is 95% effective yet many knew this wouldn't prove true in the real world when mutations happen. Meanwhile now they are trying to blame unvaccinated people for mutations and variants which would have happened anyway. Some people are blind I guess.
I don't think anyone is rooting for the vaccine to fail...most of our loved ones have taken it and I am hoping it has lasting efficacy for them. Even my few buddies who think the vaccine sucks and that we are being lied to to some extent about it's efficacy, have many friends and loved ones who have taken it and who they do not want to lose or suffer ill effects.GeographyAg said:I think they were and are. They love it that they can point to any amount of failure and blame that for not taking it. They're the worst about Fear Porn - the vaccine does nothing and might have LoNg TeRm SiDe EfFeCtS!Proposition Joe said:
If I didn't know any better I'd almost think some people were actively rooting for the vaccine to fail.
Everything I read and heard said they were highly effective at lowering the chances of serious illness... but I never read opinion pieces. We all know what opinions are like.
It just amazes me how many people truly don't understand vaccines.
Even the Polio vaccine isn't 100%, especially after one dose. It takes 3 doses to get close to that, which is why we give four doses over the early years. We've only eradicated it because of herd immunity protecting the few it doesn't work well for.
The Smallpox vaccine, likewise, allowed breakthrough cases, but the results were still so much better than a full-blown case. In this meme you can see that the child on the right has a few spots. I guess that vaccine failed, too, and isn't a real "vaccine" because it didn't provide "immunity" to the disease.
Odd that you know basically the opposite cross section of people then those predominantly non vaxxed and hospitalized.SB 43rd STREET OG said:Where do you live? Not doubting you, this is just such a different experience from me. Everyone I know who seems to be struggling in recent weeks seems to be vaccinated, which has blown me away as it is the opposite of everything I am hearing. I don't know a single unvaxxed person who has even had a "rough flu" type case in recent months. I'm in Houston.Gunny456 said:
I believed in natural immunity if you had Covid till the last three weeks. In that time I have had two family members and two neighbors get Covid for the 2nd time. None were vaxxed. One neighbor was a radiologist at a small local hospital. 42 and healthy. He died this week. Both family members in their late 40's and they are both in the hospital this time. Thankfully not on vents yet.
On top of that three of my church friends have also caught it again and they are all 40-60 and really sick compared to the first time they had it. Non vaxxed as well.
So I don't hold anymore faith in being naturally immune than I do the vaccine. Hell of a deal.
Very odd. Trust me, I have had the same thought as my experience flies in the face of the data. But not as odd as someone knowing a handful of 40-something y/o healthy people who have recently had extremely difficult times with the virus...one of which died. That poster is in RARE company. Like the mother of Private Ryan. I believe it...it's just not at all the norm. AT ALL.bay fan said:Odd that you know basically the opposite cross section of people then those predominantly non vaxxed and hospitalized.SB 43rd STREET OG said:Where do you live? Not doubting you, this is just such a different experience from me. Everyone I know who seems to be struggling in recent weeks seems to be vaccinated, which has blown me away as it is the opposite of everything I am hearing. I don't know a single unvaxxed person who has even had a "rough flu" type case in recent months. I'm in Houston.Gunny456 said:
I believed in natural immunity if you had Covid till the last three weeks. In that time I have had two family members and two neighbors get Covid for the 2nd time. None were vaxxed. One neighbor was a radiologist at a small local hospital. 42 and healthy. He died this week. Both family members in their late 40's and they are both in the hospital this time. Thankfully not on vents yet.
On top of that three of my church friends have also caught it again and they are all 40-60 and really sick compared to the first time they had it. Non vaxxed as well.
So I don't hold anymore faith in being naturally immune than I do the vaccine. Hell of a deal.
SB 43rd STREET OG said:I don't think anyone is rooting for the vaccine to fail...most of our loved ones have taken it and I am hoping it has lasting efficacy for them. Even my few buddies who think the vaccine sucks and that we are being lied to to some extent about it's efficacy, have many friends and loved ones who have taken it and who they do not want to lose or suffer ill effects.GeographyAg said:I think they were and are. They love it that they can point to any amount of failure and blame that for not taking it. They're the worst about Fear Porn - the vaccine does nothing and might have LoNg TeRm SiDe EfFeCtS!Proposition Joe said:
If I didn't know any better I'd almost think some people were actively rooting for the vaccine to fail.
Everything I read and heard said they were highly effective at lowering the chances of serious illness... but I never read opinion pieces. We all know what opinions are like.
It just amazes me how many people truly don't understand vaccines.
Even the Polio vaccine isn't 100%, especially after one dose. It takes 3 doses to get close to that, which is why we give four doses over the early years. We've only eradicated it because of herd immunity protecting the few it doesn't work well for.
The Smallpox vaccine, likewise, allowed breakthrough cases, but the results were still so much better than a full-blown case. In this meme you can see that the child on the right has a few spots. I guess that vaccine failed, too, and isn't a real "vaccine" because it didn't provide "immunity" to the disease.
i think we are tired of being called stupid or crazy for making personal medical decisions that differ from the rest. I have recovered from Covid in the past and am choosing not to get vaccinated and so many peers at work think I am really being inconsiderate (lol) and putting myself at risk.
But most of all, it is the introduction of all of these mandates. Now I am in the "F no, I am never taking it" camp. People are pissed. Rightly so. They are starting to try to impact our ability to provide for our families/children with this BS.
SoupNazi2001 said:Proposition Joe said:SoupNazi2001 said:Proposition Joe said:88planoAg said:I agree.Jabin said:
Well, there has been this thing called the "Delta variant" that's occurred since then, as well.
I'm not disputing that the message has changed.
But people are claiming that the message was never that the vaccine was a guarantee against hospitalization and death. That is not true.
The message was that in COVID's current form when the vaccines were developed, it was highly effective against death.
If you want to revise history and say the message was it would prevent any and all deaths of any variant or mutation of COVID that occurred, well then that's a failure on your part to understand.
Wait a minute. We know viruses mutate and variants are created. It happens to the flu every year which is why the flu vaccine isn't that effective. None of this is new yet the messaging for some reason didn't predict this even though many smart people knew it would happen. The messaging was get your vaccine and things will return to normal. The vaccine is 95% effective yet many knew this wouldn't prove true in the real world when mutations happen. Meanwhile now they are trying to blame unvaccinated people for mutations and variants which would have happened anyway. Some people are blind I guess.
That's not the argument being discussed. There' a dozen threads to discuss the restrictions and if they are justified and for you to let everyone know for the millionth time that you had covid and it wasn't that bad. Or buy a diary.
It is actually what's being discussed. People including the medical community who thought the vaccines effectiveness would stay in the 90%+ range despite mutations and variants that were guaranteed to happen.
Quote:
Odd that you know basically the opposite cross section of people then those predominantly non vaxxed and hospitalized.
I don't believe in the mandates. (I also don't believe in masks and mandates for those either, btw)SB 43rd STREET OG said:I don't think anyone is rooting for the vaccine to fail...most of our loved ones have taken it and I am hoping it has lasting efficacy for them. Even my few buddies who think the vaccine sucks and that we are being lied to to some extent about it's efficacy, have many friends and loved ones who have taken it and who they do not want to lose or suffer ill effects.GeographyAg said:I think they were and are. They love it that they can point to any amount of failure and blame that for not taking it. They're the worst about Fear Porn - the vaccine does nothing and might have LoNg TeRm SiDe EfFeCtS!Proposition Joe said:
If I didn't know any better I'd almost think some people were actively rooting for the vaccine to fail.
Everything I read and heard said they were highly effective at lowering the chances of serious illness... but I never read opinion pieces. We all know what opinions are like.
It just amazes me how many people truly don't understand vaccines.
Even the Polio vaccine isn't 100%, especially after one dose. It takes 3 doses to get close to that, which is why we give four doses over the early years. We've only eradicated it because of herd immunity protecting the few it doesn't work well for.
The Smallpox vaccine, likewise, allowed breakthrough cases, but the results were still so much better than a full-blown case. In this meme you can see that the child on the right has a few spots. I guess that vaccine failed, too, and isn't a real "vaccine" because it didn't provide "immunity" to the disease.
i think we are tired of being called stupid or crazy for making personal medical decisions that differ from the rest. I have recovered from Covid in the past and am choosing not to get vaccinated and so many peers at work think I am really being inconsiderate (lol) and putting myself at risk.
But most of all, it is the introduction of all of these mandates. Now I am in the "F no, I am never taking it" camp. People are pissed. Rightly so. They are starting to try to impact our ability to provide for our families/children with this BS.
Do you think the posters Rex, Curry and Jbob who detailed their lengthy hospitalizations on a recent thread and all wished they gotten the vaccine are not the norm? I mean it's three men in their 40's and early 50's, all basically healthy and all mowed down by Covid but thankfully not deceased. You should read the pages of that thread.SB 43rd STREET OG said:Very odd. Trust me, I have had the same thought as my experience flies in the face of the data. But not as odd as someone knowing a handful of 40-something y/o healthy people who have recently had extremely difficult times with the virus...one of which died. That poster is in RARE company. Like the mother of Private Ryan. I believe it...it's just not at all the norm. AT ALL.bay fan said:Odd that you know basically the opposite cross section of people then those predominantly non vaxxed and hospitalized.SB 43rd STREET OG said:Where do you live? Not doubting you, this is just such a different experience from me. Everyone I know who seems to be struggling in recent weeks seems to be vaccinated, which has blown me away as it is the opposite of everything I am hearing. I don't know a single unvaxxed person who has even had a "rough flu" type case in recent months. I'm in Houston.Gunny456 said:
I believed in natural immunity if you had Covid till the last three weeks. In that time I have had two family members and two neighbors get Covid for the 2nd time. None were vaxxed. One neighbor was a radiologist at a small local hospital. 42 and healthy. He died this week. Both family members in their late 40's and they are both in the hospital this time. Thankfully not on vents yet.
On top of that three of my church friends have also caught it again and they are all 40-60 and really sick compared to the first time they had it. Non vaxxed as well.
So I don't hold anymore faith in being naturally immune than I do the vaccine. Hell of a deal.
Genuine condolences to Gunny...that would be very tough, and frightening.
If Trump was in office, imo, you'd be seeing a similar response. We'd still be at 25-35% un-vaxxed but the population making the noise would be different.Quote:
I agree that the mandates, particularly coming from Biden and the democrats, are making many people bow up their backs and refuse just out of spite/disrespect/anger or whatever you want to call it. I see it in my own friends, too. Mostly young males who think they're invulnerable.
....
My big issue comes when those who don't want mandates spout anti-vaccine propaganda I've heard for years. It's just been repackaged for this new vaccine, but it's the same song, different verse…
I'll admit that after nearly 30 years of hearing the same anti-vaccine arguments I've gotten really sick of it.
Biden, Kamala and countless dem politicians were openly advising people not to trust any vaccine developed under him. I have never seen anything like it.tysker said:If Trump was in office, imo, you'd be seeing a similar response. We'd still be at 25-35% un-vaxxed but the population making the noise would be different.Quote:
I agree that the mandates, particularly coming from Biden and the democrats, are making many people bow up their backs and refuse just out of spite/disrespect/anger or whatever you want to call it. I see it in my own friends, too. Mostly young males who think they're invulnerable.
....
My big issue comes when those who don't want mandates spout anti-vaccine propaganda I've heard for years. It's just been repackaged for this new vaccine, but it's the same song, different verse…
I'll admit that after nearly 30 years of hearing the same anti-vaccine arguments I've gotten really sick of it.
Quote:
We showed that there was an 85% efficacy against severe disease and a complete protection against hospitalization and complete protection against death. And that's across all the regions, including in South Africa," he says.
No, you've provided evidence that in the clinical trials nobody who was vaccinated was hospitalized or died.Quote:
I've provided evidence that, in fact, the above was stated. The media message early in 2021 was in fact that the vaccines will prevent hospitalizations and death.
The vaccines do protect you against hospitalizations and death. Just not 100%.Quote:
4. my memory is accurate. The early reporting was that the vaccines would protect you.
