Please explain to me how other peoples' vaccine will work better if I am vaccinated? Also how vaccinated cannot spread it to others in general? And why natural immunity, which has been shown to be superior to vaccination, is NEVER mentioned and never offered as a way out of these government and corporate mandates.

Also the one person I know and went to a funeral for who died recently fully vaxxed do it wrong? Also, the guy who spent weeks in ICU and almost died from pneumonia and will likely never be the same...what did he do wrong...he got BOTH shots?

Seems like it is largely effective at muting the symptoms and bad effects of the disease, but is really about protecting yourself rather than others. And nothing wrong with that. It has helped countless people.

Are you genuinely curious and asking, or simply wanting to rant?

The unvaccinated affect the most influential lobbyists in DC, the insurance lobbyists. They don't want to continue to pay out huge medical bills. It's really that simple.

Romello said:

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The unvaccinated affect the most influential lobbyists in DC, the insurance lobbyists. They don't want to continue to pay out huge medical bills. It's really that simple.

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You do realize they're just going to turn around and increase our premiums. So it really affects all of us. Plus tax payers are on the hook for the uninsured.

Jabin said:

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Are you genuinely curious and asking, or simply wanting to rant?

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Romello said:

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The unvaccinated affect the most influential lobbyists in DC, the insurance lobbyists. They don't want to continue to pay out huge medical bills. It's really that simple.

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You are leaving out that most of the fortune 500 are self insured and only use the "insurance company" to process claims and managed policies.

But yeah, it is about a $6 shot vs the cost of someone going to the ICU. I.e. risk management...what all companies do and the sole reason insurance companies exist.

Jabin said:

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Are you genuinely curious and asking, or simply wanting to rant?

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Genuinely curious...but also pissed that my corporation is not forcing vaccinations and set out an email earlier FILLED with scientific holes and inconsistencies.

Duncan Idaho said:

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Romello said:

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The unvaccinated affect the most influential lobbyists in DC, the insurance lobbyists. They don't want to continue to pay out huge medical bills. It's really that simple.

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You are leaving out that most of the fortune 500 are self insured and only use the "insurance company" to process claims and managed policies.

But yeah, it is about a $6 shot vs the cost of someone going to the ICU. I.e. risk management...what all companies do and the sole reason insurance companies exist.

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The timing is revealing though...all of these companies are doing it as a direct result of federal mandates from the Biden admin. They simply would not have done this otherwise. The corporate blast stated as much.

They do that.

I get a discounts for not smoking, for being active, for attending nutrition counseling, and a few others.

Your first post and post immediately above sure sound like you're just trying to pick fights.

Duncan Idaho said:

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They do that.

I get a discounts for not smoking, for being active, for attending nutrition counseling, and a few others.

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And, on top of that, his fallacy is that we should not do anything good unless and until we've done everything good. Never let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Well, it will help protect your family from the pain of your death.

Quote:

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"Please explain to me how other peoples' vaccine will work better if I am vaccinated?"

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You being vaccinated will have no impact on anyone else vaccine efficacy.

Quote:

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"Also how vaccinated cannot spread it to others in general?"

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Vaccinated folks can spread the virus to others

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"And why natural immunity, which has been shown to be superior to vaccination, is NEVER mentioned and never offered as a way out of these government and corporate mandates."

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You would need to ask the government and corporations. They likely aren't here.

Quote:

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"Also the one person I know and went to a funeral for who died recently fully vaxxed do it wrong? Also, the guy who spent weeks in ICU and almost died from pneumonia and will likely never be the same...what did he do wrong...he got BOTH shots?"

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They did nothing wrong. The vaccine was never 100% effective and will never be.

Quote:

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"Seems like it is largely effective at muting the symptoms and bad effects of the disease, but is really about protecting yourself rather than others. And nothing wrong with that. It has helped countless people."

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Yes, by muting the bad effects of the disease less people need to be hospitalized which improves the quality, timeliness and ability of care for the rest of us who may or may not be vaccinated and might need care for something unrelated to covid.

SB 43rd STREET OG said:

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Please explain to me how other peoples' vaccine will work better if I am vaccinated? Also how vaccinated cannot spread it to others in general? And why natural immunity, which has been shown to be superior to vaccination, is NEVER mentioned and never offered as a way out of these government and corporate mandates.

Also the one person I know and went to a funeral for who died recently fully vaxxed do it wrong? Also, the guy who spent weeks in ICU and almost died from pneumonia and will likely never be the same...what did he do wrong...he got BOTH shots?

Seems like it is largely effective at muting the symptoms and bad effects of the disease, but is really about protecting yourself rather than others. And nothing wrong with that. It has helped countless people.

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At a base level, more people being vaccinated gives the virus less of an opportunity to spread and mutate.

Also, what's your source on the natural immunity being superior? I could see that being the case on the delta in the short term but everything I've seen to dare suggests the antibodies last longer post-vaccination than post-infection, and that natural immunity is half as effective against preventing infection than natural immunity + vaccination.

The mutations are wiping out gains made through mass vaccination and honestly if I'm an employer I wouldn't force folks to vaccinate yet - I'd wait until the vaccine is reworked to handle the dominant variants in the population.

wbt5845 said:

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Well, it will help protect your family from the pain of your death.

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I have recovered from Covid, science says my immunity is better than yours. Also, my buddy just lost his fully vaccinated mother in law...I went to her funeral here in Houston Sunday morning. It is clearly largely effective against Covid, but no guarantees it will protect you. But this is how it protects OTHERS.

SB 43rd STREET OG said:

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Please explain to me how other peoples' vaccine will work better if I am vaccinated? Also how vaccinated cannot spread it to others in general? And why natural immunity, which has been shown to be superior to vaccination, is NEVER mentioned and never offered as a way out of these government and corporate mandates.

Also the one person I know and went to a funeral for who died recently fully vaxxed do it wrong? Also, the guy who spent weeks in ICU and almost died from pneumonia and will likely never be the same...what did he do wrong...he got BOTH shots?

Seems like it is largely effective at muting the symptoms and bad effects of the disease, but is really about protecting yourself rather than others. And nothing wrong with that. It has helped countless people.

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The vaccinated protect the unvaccinated by not being very able to pass the virus to the unvaxed person.


Natural immunity is a thing. A great thing that has been purposefully not talked about b/c they are afraid, given the current environment regarding getting vaccinated, that too many will just forgo getting vaccinated in favor of getting the virus and immunity that way or who had the virus but have lost the antibodies over time. The later though is debatable and very individually specific. Many have full antibodies over a year after infections while some seem to lose them after only a few months. It's actually like this with most viruses. We just never cared before Covid. If natural immunity didn't work, neither would the vaccine itself.

The vaccine was never a guarantee of not dying or having a serious bout of Covid. Never was sold that way. But as you said it is largely effective against severe effects if not totally keeping you from getting the virus. Most fall into this bracket. It's very unfortunate that you had one friend die and another have very serious complications and likely lifelong side effects. May I ask what condition were they in prior to contracting Covid? Could they have had preexisting conditions? That very well may have played a factor here.

In the end, while protecting others is a huge benefit of the vaccine, we all know why we get the flu or other vaccines too. To protect ourselves potentially. And that is absolutely ok. And it's ok, to me, if you want to refrain from taking it. Just be cool with me not masking and mitigating as well. Just being honest. I agree that while you can effect others it is also your business. It's your body. But consider it. There really are not any major side effects that have been proven to be a big issue overall. But it's your decision....

TelcoAg said:

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SB 43rd STREET OG said:

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Please explain to me how other peoples' vaccine will work better if I am vaccinated? Also how vaccinated cannot spread it to others in general? And why natural immunity, which has been shown to be superior to vaccination, is NEVER mentioned and never offered as a way out of these government and corporate mandates.

Also the one person I know and went to a funeral for who died recently fully vaxxed do it wrong? Also, the guy who spent weeks in ICU and almost died from pneumonia and will likely never be the same...what did he do wrong...he got BOTH shots?

Seems like it is largely effective at muting the symptoms and bad effects of the disease, but is really about protecting yourself rather than others. And nothing wrong with that. It has helped countless people.

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At a base level, more people being vaccinated gives the virus less of an opportunity to spread and mutate.

Also, what's your source on the natural immunity being superior? I could see that being the case on the delta in the short term but everything I've seen to dare suggests the antibodies last longer post-vaccination than post-infection, and that natural immunity is half as effective against preventing infection than natural immunity + vaccination.

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From what I've seen, natural immunity may be more specific to the newest variant, but vaccination appears to create a stronger immunity. Also depends on how severe your infection was.

Also, apparently prior infection + vaccination appears to impart the greatest immunity.

TelcoAg said:

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SB 43rd STREET OG said:

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Please explain to me how other peoples' vaccine will work better if I am vaccinated? Also how vaccinated cannot spread it to others in general? And why natural immunity, which has been shown to be superior to vaccination, is NEVER mentioned and never offered as a way out of these government and corporate mandates.

Also the one person I know and went to a funeral for who died recently fully vaxxed do it wrong? Also, the guy who spent weeks in ICU and almost died from pneumonia and will likely never be the same...what did he do wrong...he got BOTH shots?

Seems like it is largely effective at muting the symptoms and bad effects of the disease, but is really about protecting yourself rather than others. And nothing wrong with that. It has helped countless people.

---

At a base level, more people being vaccinated gives the virus less of an opportunity to spread and mutate.

Also, what's your source on the natural immunity being superior? I could see that being the case on the delta in the short term but everything I've seen to dare suggests the antibodies last longer post-vaccination than post-infection, and that natural immunity is half as effective against preventing infection than natural immunity + vaccination.

The mutations are wiping out gains made through mass vaccination and honestly if I'm an employer I wouldn't force folks to vaccinate yet - I'd wait until the vaccine is reworked to handle the dominant variants in the population.

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Can you show me a study saying the antibodies last longer from the vaccine than natural imunity? I have seen almost exclusively the opposite. Also, you can have immunity after antibodies fade.

Yeah, I'd get it for variants in circulation, that a vaccine developed using the wild spike is less effective against the delta than a natural immunity formed from recovering from a delta spike infection, but I haven't seen data suggesting that naturally immunity lasts anywhere near as long as vaccination immunity.

You are roughly 5 times less likely to become infected in the first place. Less chance for passing it to others and less opportunities for mutation. Not proven but its likely viral clearance is quicker for the vaccinated even though initial viral loads can be similar.

You are roughly 25 times less likely to need hospitalization and or die from the disease. More beds freed up for regular things so that people won't die of gall bladder pancreatitis while waiting for an ICU transfer.

Not to mention all the previously mentioned insurance implications that go with being unvaccinated.

SB 43rd STREET OG said:

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TelcoAg said:

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SB 43rd STREET OG said:

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Please explain to me how other peoples' vaccine will work better if I am vaccinated? Also how vaccinated cannot spread it to others in general? And why natural immunity, which has been shown to be superior to vaccination, is NEVER mentioned and never offered as a way out of these government and corporate mandates.

Also the one person I know and went to a funeral for who died recently fully vaxxed do it wrong? Also, the guy who spent weeks in ICU and almost died from pneumonia and will likely never be the same...what did he do wrong...he got BOTH shots?

Seems like it is largely effective at muting the symptoms and bad effects of the disease, but is really about protecting yourself rather than others. And nothing wrong with that. It has helped countless people.

---

At a base level, more people being vaccinated gives the virus less of an opportunity to spread and mutate.

Also, what's your source on the natural immunity being superior? I could see that being the case on the delta in the short term but everything I've seen to dare suggests the antibodies last longer post-vaccination than post-infection, and that natural immunity is half as effective against preventing infection than natural immunity + vaccination.

The mutations are wiping out gains made through mass vaccination and honestly if I'm an employer I wouldn't force folks to vaccinate yet - I'd wait until the vaccine is reworked to handle the dominant variants in the population.

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Can you show me a study saying the antibodies last longer from the vaccine than natural imunity? I have seen almost exclusively the opposite. Also, you can have immunity after antibodies fade.

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https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm7032e1_w

https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/science.abj2258

But I don't think you're necessarily wrong. I think the question's framing is important here - were you infected with delta or the original virus? There are a lot of variables that could make one superior to the other, but what seems unquestionable is that having both is superior to natural immunity alone.

Care to post the text for that opinion article since it's behind a payway?

TelcoAg said:

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Yeah, I'd get it for variants in circulation, that a vaccine developed using the wild spike is less effective against the delta than a natural immunity formed from recovering from a delta spike infection, but I haven't seen data suggesting that naturally immunity lasts anywhere near as long as vaccination immunity.

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My FDA approved Pfizer vaccination I received months ago may only be 40% effective against Delta. My healthy 26yo son that recently recovered from Covid, likely Delta, is certainly more protected against Delta than I am. Yet, if the OSHA mandate goes through his work will force him to get a vaccination. That's dumb.

Right...so nothing new.

Thanks Telco