Let's get something straight about COVID and kids

16,571 Views | 171 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Who?mikejones!
BusterAg
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1) COVID is not a significant threat to the health of your kids. To date, 354 kids under the age of 17 have died "from" COVID.[1] Of those kids, most are likely to have other major complications, including things like leukemia. In a study by the UK, they estimated that 25 out of 12 million kids without any major complications died from COVID.[2] They didn't control for obesity, however. COVID is less dangerous to your kids than:

a) RSV, which hospitalizes 60,000 people per year, and kills between 100 - 500 children under 5 every year.[3]

b) Regular influenza during a regular year - The CDC estimates that the 2019 - 2020 flu deaths in children were ~434. That's in one year, compared to 18 months[4]

c) Cancer - Cancer sucks. It kills twice as many kids per year than COVID. I know its not communicable (with some possible exceptions), but it's still a bigger killer of your kids than COVID.[5]

d) Suicide - kills about 2,000 kids per year. Contemplate that when you are thinking about these lockdowns and mental health.[6]

2) You know how many kids have died from the flu during the COVID time? One. [7] Something about COVID wiped out the flu, or at least that is what the data says. So, prior years, flu, but no COVID. COVID year, COVID but no flu. The difference in the dangers to your kids from flu compared to COVID are not statistically meaningful. This means that kids face no more danger from communicable diseases this year than they have in every other year since we wiped out polio.

3) Your kids wearing masks will do nothing to help anyone. They aren't going to use them properly. They aren't going to make themselves safer from a non-dangerous virus. They aren't going to prevent the spread of the disease, because they touch their mouths constantly.[8] Even if masks do help with the spread of COVID, it's not worth mandating kids wear masks during a normal flu year. The call for masks on kids is propaganda related to political power.

4) Anyone that makes a plea to protect our kids from COVID is either uninformed or lying to you. Educate them on the low mortality rate, based on CDC data, and then assume they have bad intentions if that doesn't shock them.

5) The damage that we are doing to our kids by robbing them of their education is FAR AND AWAY more damaging than the minute chance that some kids will get sick. Kids, by and large, aren't learning *****[8] If you have highschool age kids right now, keep them learning. Because, once they get to college, they are going to be the ones blowing the curve in every class they take.

6) While we don't have good data to support this, kids might be spreading COVID to parents / teachers. That's a valid point. That is worth discussion. There are pros / cons to each side, like the presence of a vaccine, for example. But that argument is separate and distinct from arguments that something is to "protect the children". No, it's not. It's destroying our kids lives for the sake of keeping adults safe. We have already pretty much destroyed their adulthoods with the crushing debts we are creating to make elites rich, why not at least let them have a few more years of innocense before they realize how ****ed they are.

Endnotes:

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge

[2] https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57766717

[3] https://emergency.cdc.gov/han/2021/han00443.asp#:~:text=Each%20year%20in%20the%20United,aged%2065%20years%20or%20older.

[4] https://www.cdc.gov/flu/spotlights/2020-2021/pediatric-flu-deaths-reach-new-high.htm#:~:text=June%204%2C%202021%20%E2%80%93%20CDC%20reported,for%20that%20season%20to%20199.

[5] https://www.americashealthrankings.org/explore/health-of-women-and-children/measure/child_mortality_a/state/U.S. (9% * 20,337 = 1,830)

[6] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK220806/table/ttt00010/?report=objectonly - Note, this data is dated, back from 1999. That is because, in recent years, suicide deaths by age included a big group of between 15 to 24. However, suicide rates have done nothing but increase since 1999. More discussion about pandemic and suicide here: https://healthfeedback.org/what-has-been-the-effect-of-the-pandemic-on-the-suicide-rate-of-the-u-s-population/

[7] CDC deaths, pediatric from flu

[8] Primary research, namely my high school teacher wife and high school kids.
Teslag
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This is good solid information. Thanks for sharing.
chet98
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"It's destroying our kids lives for the sake of keeping adults safe"

What is? Wearing masks to school is destroying kids' lives? Sounds like a stretch. My jr high son wore a mask to in-person school all last year and I can say that being in-person with a mask was a hell of a lot less destructive than trying to do virtual with an extreme extrovert.
BusterAg
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chet98 said:

"It's destroying our kids lives for the sake of keeping adults safe"

What is? Wearing masks to school is destroying kids' lives? Sounds like a stretch. My jr high son wore a mask to in-person school all last year and I can say that being in-person with a mask was a hell of a lot less destructive than trying to do virtual with an extreme extrovert.
Don't think for a second that the shutdowns and cancellation of extracurricular sports is right around the corner.

We might want to make kids wear masks to protect adults. Fine. But unless you believe that we should continue to wear masks in public forever, there is no intellectually honest argument that masks are more needed for children's safety this year than they were the year before COVID showed up, where 434 kids died from the flu.

We shouldn't give an inch on the idea that any of these precautions are there for the safety of our kids. They are not.
GAC06
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"School with masks is better than no school at all"

That's a false choice. There is no reason for kids to wear masks. It is harmful for their development and only bolsters the petty tyrants who will use fear and misinformation to still cancel school and activities.
GE
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The moral weakness in a society that handicaps its children to protect its elderly is alarming.
cisgenderedAggie
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BusterAg said:

chet98 said:

"It's destroying our kids lives for the sake of keeping adults safe"

What is? Wearing masks to school is destroying kids' lives? Sounds like a stretch. My jr high son wore a mask to in-person school all last year and I can say that being in-person with a mask was a hell of a lot less destructive than trying to do virtual with an extreme extrovert.
Don't think for a second that the shutdowns and cancellation of extracurricular sports is right around the corner.

We might want to make kids wear masks to protect adults. Fine. But unless you believe that we should continue to wear masks in public forever, there is no intellectually honest argument that masks are more needed for children's safety this year than they were the year before COVID showed up, where 434 kids died from the flu.

We shouldn't give an inch on the idea that any of these precautions are there for the safety of our kids. They are not.


Bolded for emphasis that I believe gets lost in the mask/anti-mask BS. The underlying basis for mask mandates, in absence of objective metrics for improvement/worsening, have no honest resolution. Covid will always be here. Vaccination and infection are the only paths forward and the risk to most children is negligible. Mask mandates, as they are currently justified, represent a commitment toward anti-social societal change. The pressure on them was only ever relaxed as a bribe to increase vaccination, and there was never data to support that change.
BadMoonRisin
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chet98 said:

"It's destroying our kids lives for the sake of keeping adults safe"

What is? Wearing masks to school is destroying kids' lives? Sounds like a stretch. My jr high son wore a mask to in-person school all last year and I can say that being in-person with a mask was a hell of a lot less destructive than trying to do virtual with an extreme extrovert.
My son is 6 and complained about it every single day. They made him wear it outside to recess in 95+ degree weather. There's nothing scientific about the mask or the mandates. Get over it. "My mask protects you, and your mask protects me". Complete horse*****

Your son is free to wear his mask. He is also free to wear his underwear on the outside of his pants.

My kid shouldnt have to.
Capitol Ag
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BusterAg said:

1) COVID is not a significant threat to the health of your kids. To date, 354 kids under the age of 17 have died "from" COVID.[1] Of those kids, most are likely to have other major complications, including things like leukemia. In a study by the UK, they estimated that 25 out of 12 million kids without any major complications died from COVID.[2] They didn't control for obesity, however. COVID is less dangerous to your kids than:

a) RSV, which hospitalizes 60,000 people per year, and kills between 100 - 500 children under 5 every year.[3]

b) Regular influenza during a regular year - The CDC estimates that the 2019 - 2020 flu deaths in children were ~434. That's in one year, compared to 18 months[4]

c) Cancer - Cancer sucks. It kills twice as many kids per year than COVID. I know its not communicable (with some possible exceptions), but it's still a bigger killer of your kids than COVID.[5]

d) Suicide - kills about 2,000 kids per year. Contemplate that when you are thinking about these lockdowns and mental health.[6]

2) You know how many kids have died from the flu during the COVID time? One. [7] Something about COVID wiped out the flu, or at least that is what the data says. So, prior years, flu, but no COVID. COVID year, COVID but no flu. The difference in the dangers to your kids from flu compared to COVID are not statistically meaningful. This means that kids face no more danger from communicable diseases this year than they have in every other year since we wiped out polio.

3) Your kids wearing masks will do nothing to help anyone. They aren't going to use them properly. They aren't going to make themselves safer from a non-dangerous virus. They aren't going to prevent the spread of the disease, because they touch their mouths constantly.[8] Even if masks do help with the spread of COVID, it's not worth mandating kids wear masks during a normal flu year. The call for masks on kids is propaganda related to political power.

4) Anyone that makes a plea to protect our kids from COVID is either uninformed or lying to you. Educate them on the low mortality rate, based on CDC data, and then assume they have bad intentions if that doesn't shock them.

5) The damage that we are doing to our kids by robbing them of their education is FAR AND AWAY more damaging than the minute chance that some kids will get sick. Kids, by and large, aren't learning *****[8] If you have highschool age kids right now, keep them learning. Because, once they get to college, they are going to be the ones blowing the curve in every class they take.

6) While we don't have good data to support this, kids might be spreading COVID to parents / teachers. That's a valid point. That is worth discussion. There are pros / cons to each side, like the presence of a vaccine, for example. But that argument is separate and distinct from arguments that something is to "protect the children". No, it's not. It's destroying our kids lives for the sake of keeping adults safe. We have already pretty much destroyed their adulthoods with the crushing debts we are creating to make elites rich, why not at least let them have a few more years of innocense before they realize how ****ed they are.

Endnotes:

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge

[2] https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57766717

[3] https://emergency.cdc.gov/han/2021/han00443.asp#:~:text=Each%20year%20in%20the%20United,aged%2065%20years%20or%20older.

[4] https://www.cdc.gov/flu/spotlights/2020-2021/pediatric-flu-deaths-reach-new-high.htm#:~:text=June%204%2C%202021%20%E2%80%93%20CDC%20reported,for%20that%20season%20to%20199.

[5] https://www.americashealthrankings.org/explore/health-of-women-and-children/measure/child_mortality_a/state/U.S. (9% * 20,337 = 1,830)

[6] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK220806/table/ttt00010/?report=objectonly - Note, this data is dated, back from 1999. That is because, in recent years, suicide deaths by age included a big group of between 15 to 24. However, suicide rates have done nothing but increase since 1999. More discussion about pandemic and suicide here: https://healthfeedback.org/what-has-been-the-effect-of-the-pandemic-on-the-suicide-rate-of-the-u-s-population/

[7] CDC deaths, pediatric from flu

[8] Primary research, namely my high school teacher wife and high school kids.
This cannot be starred enough. So here's another blue star. This is all a political ploy capitalizing on people's hysteria and fear. Nothing more.
Drip99
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BadMoonRisin said:

chet98 said:

"It's destroying our kids lives for the sake of keeping adults safe"

What is? Wearing masks to school is destroying kids' lives? Sounds like a stretch. My jr high son wore a mask to in-person school all last year and I can say that being in-person with a mask was a hell of a lot less destructive than trying to do virtual with an extreme extrovert.
My son is 6 and complained about it every single day. They made him wear it outside to recess in 95+ degree weather. There's nothing scientific about the mask or the mandates. Get over it. "My mask protects you, and your mask protects me". Complete horse*****

Your son is free to wear his mask. He is also free to wear his underwear on the outside of his pants.

My kid shouldnt have to.
What ISD are you in that your kid has to wear a mask? There are plenty of ISD in Texas that don't require masking and treat covid as just another illness like the flu or any virus with fever. Perhaps it's time for folks that feel strongly about this to evaluate their district and make a change. Complaining about it on the internet won't accomplish anything.
BadMoonRisin
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JesusQuintana said:

BadMoonRisin said:

chet98 said:

"It's destroying our kids lives for the sake of keeping adults safe"

What is? Wearing masks to school is destroying kids' lives? Sounds like a stretch. My jr high son wore a mask to in-person school all last year and I can say that being in-person with a mask was a hell of a lot less destructive than trying to do virtual with an extreme extrovert.
My son is 6 and complained about it every single day. They made him wear it outside to recess in 95+ degree weather. There's nothing scientific about the mask or the mandates. Get over it. "My mask protects you, and your mask protects me". Complete horse*****

Your son is free to wear his mask. He is also free to wear his underwear on the outside of his pants.

My kid shouldnt have to.
What ISD are you in that your kid has to wear a mask? There are plenty of ISD in Texas that don't require masking and treat covid as just another illness like the flu or any virus with fever. Perhaps it's time for folks that feel strongly about this to evaluate their district and make a change. Complaining about it on the internet won't accomplish anything.
PISD in Travis. They were required all last year. This year is "cannot require, but strongly recommend" to the lament of Karen's in all corners of NextDoor.
texan12
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GE said:

The moral weakness in a society that handicaps its children to protect its elderly is alarming.


This is such a profound and depressing statement where you can add the protection of obese people, too. What's ironic is that a lot of those elderly people were from the hippie generation who are now calling healthy people selfish for making individual choices.
KidDoc
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Great OP I agree.

How about banning pools, lakes, rivers?

Facts & Stats About Drowning - Stop Drowning Now

Quote:

In the US, an average of 3,500 to 4,000 people drown per year. That is an average of 10 fatal drownings per day.

Drowning is the leading cause of unintentional injury-related death for children ages 1-4.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
gunan01
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Wearing masks to schools is "destroying kids lives"???

Lol
texan12
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Floaties for everyone?!?
BusterAg
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gunan01 said:

Wearing masks to schools is "destroying kids lives"???

Lol
Making them work from home and cancelling all of their extracurricular activities, proms, graduation ceremonies, and field trips is pretty disrupting and disappointing.

The point is, why weren't we forced to wear masks at school everyday when we were kids? The flu was around then, and it is just as dangerous to kids as COVID.

Maybe its to protect adults that live with kids. Fine. Don't say its to protect kids. Its not.
Atreides Ornithopter
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My 6th grader disliked wearing masks at school.

1. He refused to wear his glasses because of the fogging up of his mask. Thus reducing what he learned.

2. He couldn't hear certain teacher because their voice was muzzled. Thus reducing what he learned.

3. Girls couldn't see his face thus resulting in not getting friend zoned as much. Well that may be a benifit.....
https://i.postimg.cc/rpHKr9JQ/IMG-0770.jpg
planoaggie123
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Good post Op
Teslag
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gunan01 said:

Wearing masks to schools is "destroying kids lives"???

Lol


Do you feel it's good for them?
dodger02
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Both of my girls wore masks all last year and their lives were destroyed so badly that they had their best academic year ever - one scoring off the charts in every assessment conducted and the other making the largest year-to-year improvement in her academic performance to date.

I hope this year is just as devastating.
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gunan01
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dodger02 said:

Both of my girls wore masks all last year and their lives were destroyed so badly that they had their best academic year ever - one scoring off the charts in every assessment conducted and the other making the largest year-to-year improvement in her academic performance to date.

I hope this year is just as devastating.


Good post. Strong job by you as a parent to take a bad situation and help your kids turn it into a positive.
dubi
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Baron Von Flag Smasher said:

My 6th grader disliked wearing masks at school.

1. He refused to wear his glasses because of the fogging up of his mask. Thus reducing what he learned.

2. He couldn't hear certain teacher because their voice was muzzled. Thus reducing what he learned.

3. Girls couldn't see his face thus resulting in not getting friend zoned as much. Well that may be a benifit.....

I'm 50+ and fogged glasses made my life miserable!
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Marissa99
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I hear your points, Buster.

But something else to consider -- there is still a lot that we don't know about this particular coronavirus. I really hope that there are no lingering issues from Covid that will present themselves several years from now in kids and adults. Yes, long Covid does exist. I believe this. But there is still a lot that we don't know.

On a broader note, mankind is resilient and has navigated and adapted to many adverse situations over thousands of years. One way I look at this pandemic - as unfortunate as it is - is that it's another time that we have to adapt and weather through adversity. We need to adapt to some things such as wearing masks and other safety protocols for the time being. I think many people think that mask wearing and other measures are permanent. They're not. Change is the one constant in life....
cisgenderedAggie
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gunan01 said:

I would hope people's kids aren't so soft as to think that wearing a mask is "destroying" their life.


Well, kids under 5, especially those that aren't feral and starving, tend to be soft. It's kind of a nature thing.
planoaggie123
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gunan01 said:

I would hope people's kids aren't so soft as to think that wearing a mask is "destroying" their life.

If you can show the scientific benefit of masks we can have a conversation.

Why would I muzzle my kid w/o science....not talking about "it makes sense that masks would stop" or "part of a overall mitigating strategy".

There needs to be a direct and identifiable benefit.

Specifically regarding soft....do masks + isolation + sanitizer baths for 1 or 2 more years and lets talk "soft" when kids can't fight off a common cold anymore...



100% support you and your family choosing to wear a mask.
cisgenderedAggie
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Marissa99 said:

I hear your points, Buster.

But something else to consider -- there is still a lot that we don't know about this particular coronavirus. I really hope that there are no lingering issues from Covid that will present themselves several years from now in kids and adults. Yes, long Covid does exist. I believe this. But there is still a lot that we don't know.

On a broader note, mankind is resilient and has navigated and adapted to many adverse situations over thousands of years. One way I look at this pandemic - as unfortunate as it is - is that it's another time that we have to adapt and weather through adversity. We need to adapt to some things such as wearing masks and other safety protocols for the time being. I think many people think that mask wearing and other measures are permanent. They're not. Change is the one constant in life....


What is the basis for when the measures are resolved? Need to be specific on the endpoints here.
P.U.T.U
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Marissa99 said:

I hear your points, Buster.

But something else to consider -- there is still a lot that we don't know about this particular coronavirus. I really hope that there are no lingering issues from Covid that will present themselves several years from now in kids and adults. Yes, long Covid does exist. I believe this. But there is still a lot that we don't know.

On a broader note, mankind is resilient and has navigated and adapted to many adverse situations over thousands of years. One way I look at this pandemic - as unfortunate as it is - is that it's another time that we have to adapt and weather through adversity. We need to adapt to some things such as wearing masks and other safety protocols for the time being. I think many people think that mask wearing and other measures are permanent. They're not. Change is the one constant in life....
There is math and science behind the reason cloth does not work to filter out a small virus cell. We do know that, masking for the sake of "saving" others is a lie. Kids need to be maskless and so do their teachers to learn best. Mask do more harm than good
ttha_aggie_09
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Quote:

We need to adapt to some things such as wearing masks and other safety protocols for the time being

Why? Where have they worked? Why does the CDC and the government continue to change their stance and recommendations on masks that often contradict their previous recommendations? Why did my kids get Covid from school, surrounded by everyone in masks while wearing masks?

If you want to wear a mask, go for it... I will continue to make my own decisions based on facts and common sense instead of just getting in line with the rest of the plebes
Fitch
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GAC06 said:

"School with masks is better than no school at all"

That's a false choice. There is no reason for kids to wear masks. It is harmful for their development and only bolsters the petty tyrants who will use fear and misinformation to still cancel school and activities.


I have no dog in this hunt but have never understood the idea that masks harm kids development or psychological health. My nieces and nephews don't like wearing clothes period, so a mask is just another garment where mom says "put your _____ back on!"

Total separate discussion from the efficacy of the things.
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dodger02
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P.U.T.U said:

There is math and science behind the reason cloth does not work to filter out a small virus cell.
The math and science is that surgical masks and the like aren't designed to "filter out a small virus cell" that is approximately 100 nm in diameter (a cell that in and of itself won't make anyone sick). They're designed to filter droplets several times that size which contain hundreds of virus cells.

The "masks don't work" crew is letting perfection be the enemy of good.
ORAggieFan
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Fitch said:

GAC06 said:

"School with masks is better than no school at all"

That's a false choice. There is no reason for kids to wear masks. It is harmful for their development and only bolsters the petty tyrants who will use fear and misinformation to still cancel school and activities.


I have no dog in this hunt but have never understood the idea that masks harm kids development or psychological health. My nieces and nephews don't like wearing clothes period, so a mask is just another garment where mom says "put your _____ back on!"

Total separate discussion from the efficacy of the things.
Learn more about non verbal communications. Also, look into how kids learn to enunciate and read (by seeing lips). Or, research kids with speech issues and how speech therapy works.

There are many reasons to not mask children and this will have long term effects, especially on kids under 10.
ORAggieFan
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dodger02 said:

P.U.T.U said:

There is math and science behind the reason cloth does not work to filter out a small virus cell.
The math and science is that surgical masks and the like aren't designed to "filter out a small virus cell" that is approximately 100 nm in diameter (a cell that in and of itself won't make anyone sick). They're designed to filter droplets several times that size which contain hundreds of virus cells.

The "masks don't work" crew is letting perfection be the enemy of good.
No, the masks don't work crowd understands that outside of properly fitted N95 masks for all, you're buying minutes when you need to buy hours. It's not worth it at all.
 
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