agsalaska said:

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yukmonkey said:

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Some people will decide one way and some people will decide another way.

Why does each side care so much about convincing or influencing the other?

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Because one side sees it as a community issue and the other a personal issue.

It is a community issue because while you may not get sick and die you can spread it to others that will get sick and die. That seems to be true.

It is a personal decision because it the community does not own your body, at least not in the USA. And it is your right to do what you want with your body. That also tends to be true.

Neither side is really wrong. What is frustrating to watch is when people ignore the obvious realities. That is where the fight is.

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cone said:

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Quote:

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We spent a year counting on masks - mandating masks - to suggest masks don't prevent the spread of the virus means all the public health professionals were dead ass wrong for an entire year.

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masks might help

but it's comparing a 1% solution to a 99% solution

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agsalaska said:

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wbt5845 said:

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agsalaska said:

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yukmonkey said:

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Some people will decide one way and some people will decide another way.

Why does each side care so much about convincing or influencing the other?

---

Because one side sees it as a community issue and the other a personal issue.

It is a community issue because while you may not get sick and die you can spread it to others that will get sick and die. That seems to be true.

It is a personal decision because it the community does not own your body, at least not in the USA. And it is your right to do what you want with your body. That also tends to be true.

Neither side is really wrong. What is frustrating to watch is when people ignore the obvious realities. That is where the fight is.

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But there is a remedy for those who view it as a community issue - masks. Wear a mask. Wear two - or more. Wear an N95. Stay home.

And now is not the time to start arguing masks don't work. We spent a year counting on masks - mandating masks - to suggest masks don't prevent the spread of the virus means all the public health professionals were dead ass wrong for an entire year.

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That's not true. Since I am not allowed to argue that masks don't work, they were never supposed to help you if others did not wear them and were sick. That was never the message as I am sure you remember.

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wbt5845 said:

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agsalaska said:

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wbt5845 said:

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agsalaska said:

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yukmonkey said:

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Some people will decide one way and some people will decide another way.

Why does each side care so much about convincing or influencing the other?

---

Because one side sees it as a community issue and the other a personal issue.

It is a community issue because while you may not get sick and die you can spread it to others that will get sick and die. That seems to be true.

It is a personal decision because it the community does not own your body, at least not in the USA. And it is your right to do what you want with your body. That also tends to be true.

Neither side is really wrong. What is frustrating to watch is when people ignore the obvious realities. That is where the fight is.

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But there is a remedy for those who view it as a community issue - masks. Wear a mask. Wear two - or more. Wear an N95. Stay home.

And now is not the time to start arguing masks don't work. We spent a year counting on masks - mandating masks - to suggest masks don't prevent the spread of the virus means all the public health professionals were dead ass wrong for an entire year.

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That's not true. Since I am not allowed to argue that masks don't work, they were never supposed to help you if others did not wear them and were sick. That was never the message as I am sure you remember.

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You used too many negatives in that sentence for it to make sense.

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agsalaska said:

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wbt5845 said:

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agsalaska said:

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wbt5845 said:

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agsalaska said:

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yukmonkey said:

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Some people will decide one way and some people will decide another way.

Why does each side care so much about convincing or influencing the other?

---

Because one side sees it as a community issue and the other a personal issue.

It is a community issue because while you may not get sick and die you can spread it to others that will get sick and die. That seems to be true.

It is a personal decision because it the community does not own your body, at least not in the USA. And it is your right to do what you want with your body. That also tends to be true.

Neither side is really wrong. What is frustrating to watch is when people ignore the obvious realities. That is where the fight is.

---

But there is a remedy for those who view it as a community issue - masks. Wear a mask. Wear two - or more. Wear an N95. Stay home.

And now is not the time to start arguing masks don't work. We spent a year counting on masks - mandating masks - to suggest masks don't prevent the spread of the virus means all the public health professionals were dead ass wrong for an entire year.

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That's not true. Since I am not allowed to argue that masks don't work, they were never supposed to help you if others did not wear them and were sick. That was never the message as I am sure you remember.

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You used too many negatives in that sentence for it to make sense.

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Masks were sold not to help the person wearing them but rather the people around them. That is why it is not a remedy like you said.

Is that better. I only used two.

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Quote:

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It absolutely is a single benefit issue. The rest of you MFers are on your own.

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Quote:

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In Springfield, vaccine doubters include Krauck's niece, Jennifer Davis. She hasn't had a shot and isn't inclined to get one. Four of her five children, all of whom are eligible, are also unvaccinated; she worries that a daughter who got the shots will suffer side effects.

She and her uncle are close and speak fondly of each other. But Davis, 41, believes the vaccines were developed too quickly and that a series of illnesses suffered by friends and their families are broadly linked to other vaccines. She wonders why people line up for shots, and trusts doctors less after a previous recommendation led to complications and a hysterectomy. Coronavirus doesn't seem that dangerous to her even given Krauck's experience.

"There hasn't been enough research done on it, and I'd rather take my chances with the virus than I would to get the vaccine. I trust my immune system," Davis said in an interview. "If I get it, and it's my time to die, then I get it and it's my time to die."

Davis supports Trump, but says not even the former president could change her mind. "It's silly that people think just because one man says 'go get it,' that we're going to line up and do it. Because it's not going to happen."

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Jbob04 said:

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If you or anybody has the vaccine and are "protected" why do you care if someone isn't vaccinated? Do you not have faith in the vaccine?

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Windy City Ag said:

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Quote:

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It absolutely is a single benefit issue. The rest of you MFers are on your own.

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Interesting read on the subject on Bloomberg.com this morning that reinforces this notion. It charts a former vaccine skeptic who got whacked with a near-death case and has tried to evangelize unsuccessfully for the vaccine. His neice, who probably would be eaten alive by COVID, had the below comments.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-07-07/where-is-delta-spreading-u-s-midwest-rockies-as-trump-country-rejects-vaccine?srnd=premium

Quote:

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In Springfield, vaccine doubters include Krauck's niece, Jennifer Davis. She hasn't had a shot and isn't inclined to get one. Four of her five children, all of whom are eligible, are also unvaccinated; she worries that a daughter who got the shots will suffer side effects.

She and her uncle are close and speak fondly of each other. But Davis, 41, believes the vaccines were developed too quickly and that a series of illnesses suffered by friends and their families are broadly linked to other vaccines. She wonders why people line up for shots, and trusts doctors less after a previous recommendation led to complications and a hysterectomy. Coronavirus doesn't seem that dangerous to her even given Krauck's experience.

"There hasn't been enough research done on it, and I'd rather take my chances with the virus than I would to get the vaccine. I trust my immune system," Davis said in an interview. "If I get it, and it's my time to die, then I get it and it's my time to die."

Davis supports Trump, but says not even the former president could change her mind. "It's silly that people think just because one man says 'go get it,' that we're going to line up and do it. Because it's not going to happen."

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GAC06 said:

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bay fan said:

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It seems likely that family of active COVID patients is getting on a plane and flying to Texas tonight. Their choice will have ramifications on many people across multiple states besides all those inconvenienced at the doctors office this afternoon and the fact that the doctor and nurse due to their profession will be quarantined and more people will be inconvenienced over that time.

Why is it so hard to acknowledge in this Covid situation, individual choices really don't exist. Every choice effects others, whether for community good or otherwise.

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Why would the doctor quarantine if he's been vaccinated? If he hasn't, that's a risk he took.

No matter how much you seem to want to enforce your will on others, you don't have that power. We can make our own decisions. If that scares you, you are free to stay home. We are not in this together and we never were.

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