And those death rates cut in about 1000ths for reinfections and vaccinated folks. So death rates moving forward will get lower and lower.

It's long past time to move the heck on. 100%

We can easily move on once 80+% are vaccinated.

The answer is right in front of us, and the people who say they "want" to move on just continue to ignore it and will build any false narrative they can grasp on to knock it down. All I can do is laugh at this point at the great efforts to deny something that will clearly answer the solution in less than 6 weeks time.

We don't need to wait until 80%. Not even close.

After all it's about not overwhelming the healthcare system. Tell me when people were doing basically whatever they wanted in Texas outside of wearing a mask in a useless setting such as a grocery store in the winter without a single vaccinated person and far less natural immunity to boot, all to still not overwhelm the healthcare system....

Where is the data that we will overwhelm the healthcare system now if we moved on?

We'll never get to 80%, FYI. So to laugh at others and then say 6 weeks can end it when we can't get to 80% at 6 weeks just makes me laugh at you

To say just 2 more weeks 56 weeks ago and to on may 1st say just 6 more is laughable

Here's a hint. Most of Texans moved on 10-11 months ago for all intents and purposes, again outside of wearing a mask in useless settings like well ventilated grocery stores for their 5-10 minute trips which wouldn't be enough realistic rime to spread disease anyways

But sure. You have all the data

Ranger222 said:

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We can easily move on once 80+% are vaccinated.

The answer is right in front of us, and the people who say they "want" to move on just continue to ignore it and will build any false narrative they can grasp on to knock it down. All I can do is laugh at this point at the great efforts to deny something that will clearly answer the solution in less than 6 weeks time.

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Ah yes, the old "15 days to flatten the curve to 80% must be vaccinated" play. Oldest trick in the book.

Ranger222 said:

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We can easily move on once 80+% are vaccinated.

The answer is right in front of us, and the people who say they "want" to move on just continue to ignore it and will build any false narrative they can grasp on to knock it down. All I can do is laugh at this point at the great efforts to deny something that will clearly answer the solution in less than 6 weeks time.

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Ranger222 said:

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We can easily move on once 80+% are vaccinated.

The answer is right in front of us, and the people who say they "want" to move on just continue to ignore it and will build any false narrative they can grasp on to knock it down. All I can do is laugh at this point at the great efforts to deny something that will clearly answer the solution in less than 6 weeks time.

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The answer is right in front of us. Go back to normal. Right now. Problem solved.

Ranger222 said:

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We can easily move on once 80+% are vaccinated.

The answer is right in front of us, and the people who say they "want" to move on just continue to ignore it and will build any false narrative they can grasp on to knock it down. All I can do is laugh at this point at the great efforts to deny something that will clearly answer the solution in less than 6 weeks time.

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FIFY

Old Buffalo said:

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Ranger222 said:

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We can easily move on once 80+% are vaccinated.

The answer is right in front of us, and the people who say they "want" to move on just continue to ignore it and will build any false narrative they can grasp on to knock it down. All I can do is laugh at this point at the great efforts to deny something that will clearly answer the solution in less than 6 weeks time.

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Ah yes, the old "15 days to flatten the curve to 80% must be vaccinated" play. Oldest trick in the book.

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If we hit 80%, nothing will change and we'll be told that we have to hit 90%. If we hit 90%, nothing will change and we'll be told that we have to hit 100%.

To quote W: " Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me... can't get fooled again."

I've been reading this thread and it makes my head hurt. It comes down to this for me, I am in my 30s, chunky, but not really what you think of as an obese individual, likely wouldn't die from this but why not get it so we can kill this thing for everyone? That's the part I don't get, I mean, most people on this site are patriotic republicans and with that comes the whole "freedom" thing but that also means we have a duty to protect our nation. That's how I see the vaccine, it's pretty damn safe since like a billion people have already taken it and if we all got it we would wipe this thing off the planet completely. I just don't get why anyone wouldn't take it, it's a little protein spike covered with a little fat, not that scary to me but to each their own I guess. Your chances of getting sick even as a healthy young person are worse than getting really sick from vaccine so even if you don't Care about others and just yourself I would still figure you would get it. So again, I'm just confused why anyone wouldn't take it for yourself and for the country and world as a whole. And yes I get the whole freedom to do what you want but this isn't just about you, it's you willing to sacrifice a sore arm for everyone, kind of like when you donate blood. I don't see it as a big deal but so many do, I just figured there would be more people willing to get it out of the kindness of their heart to end it for the few who can't get any vaccines and who will always be susceptible to catching it and dying from it. Both my relatively healthy uncle and aunt died from this thing 2 months back, so people do die and it's sad they had to die rather than live out the last 10-20 years of their life with their kids and grandkids due to this stupid virus that we can now eradicate.

If you want people to get the shot then let them go back to normal once they do.

Salute The Marines said:

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If you want people to get the shot then let them go back to normal once they do.

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No one hear is arguing against that. The common message here is how horrible the CDC and others have handled the messaging around.

I am totally for that. I think everyone who is fully vaccinated should be able to do whatever the **** they want.

ontherocks said:

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I am totally for that. I think everyone who is fully vaccinated should be able to do whatever the **** they want.

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See - I think you should do whatever the **** you want because this is America.

Salute The Marines said:

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If you want people to get the shot then let them go back to normal once they do.

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This is the problem. They are taking the incentive away.

And I agree with this too, but real Americans take care of their neighbors when they can. So although I think nobody should ever be forced to take a vaccine, those that can, should, for the rest of them and for those who are unborn yet to this great country. Small sacrifice for the greater good that is free and really doesn't affect your bank account.

ontherocks said:

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And I agree with this too, but real Americans take care of their neighbors when they can. So although I think nobody should ever be forced to take a vaccine, those that can, should, for the rest of them and for those who are unborn yet to this great country. Small sacrifice for the greater good that is free and really doesn't affect your bank account.

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I already did you one better. I went out like normal for the last year visiting small businesses, caught the actual rona, and shook it off like nothing.

You're welcome!

ontherocks said:

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I've been reading this thread and it makes my head hurt. It comes down to this for me, I am in my 30s, chunky, but not really what you think of as an obese individual, likely wouldn't die from this but why not get it so we can kill this thing for everyone? That's the part I don't get, I mean, most people on this site are patriotic republicans and with that comes the whole "freedom" thing but that also means we have a duty to protect our nation. That's how I see the vaccine, it's pretty damn safe since like a billion people have already taken it and if we all got it we would wipe this thing off the planet completely. I just don't get why anyone wouldn't take it, it's a little protein spike covered with a little fat, not that scary to me but to each their own I guess. Your chances of getting sick even as a healthy young person are worse than getting really sick from vaccine so even if you don't Care about others and just yourself I would still figure you would get it. So again, I'm just confused why anyone wouldn't take it for yourself and for the country and world as a whole. And yes I get the whole freedom to do what you want but this isn't just about you, it's you willing to sacrifice a sore arm for everyone, kind of like when you donate blood. I don't see it as a big deal but so many do, I just figured there would be more people willing to get it out of the kindness of their heart to end it for the few who can't get any vaccines and who will always be susceptible to catching it and dying from it. Both my relatively healthy uncle and aunt died from this thing 2 months back, so people do die and it's sad they had to die rather than live out the last 10-20 years of their life with their kids and grandkids due to this stupid virus that we can now eradicate.

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It's never going away. The Spanish Flu is still around. This vaccine will not eliminate the virus and it will be around forever.

People still die of the Spanish flu?

Did I say people were still dying from it? You stated we're going to eliminate it, which we will never do.

Uh, the Spanish Flu went extinct decades ago. Hell, a group of researchers took an expeditionary force to go dig up frozen bodies in the permafrost to try and recover a sample of the 1918 flu genome.

Are derivatives and evolved strains of it around? Sure. But "the" strain was essentially lost to time.

Quote:

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Do you know what drove the HCQ thing into what it was? The moment Trump mentioned it, the democrats and media began acting like this was some off the wall experimental drug that will kill you, when in reality it's been around for 50+ years and taken by people worldwide. Again, you need to be honest with what you're saying. The democrat's and media's melt and instant "do the opposite of Trump" mentality didn't help.

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Not going to get into the politics of it or the rest of your post, but one critical aspect gets missed with the whole HCQ thing.

It was mentioned by a non qualified person as a solution/cure, which is bad enough, but the real problem is that it caused a run on a drug that some people genuinely need for treatment.

HCQ is a primary treatment for Lupus among other conditions, and the presentation of it as a treatment without any vetting or preparation from manufacturers caused shortages and issues for people who actually needed it.

ontherocks said:

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I am totally for that. I think everyone who is fully vaccinated should be able to do whatever the **** they want.

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FIFY.

Why do people feel that they are entitled to make decisions for others? Take what precautions you choose. Leave others alone.

Old Buffalo said:

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ontherocks said:

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I am totally for that. I think everyone who is fully vaccinated should be able to do whatever the **** they want.

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See - I think you should do whatever the **** you want because this is America.

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This + obesity is why we lead the world in covid deaths. But I'd argue this attitude is the root of obesity too, so really it's just this.

Yes, you are free to do whatever you want - but should you? Or are there some things you don't want to do that you should do anyway?

Thanks for trying, ontherocks. Keep it up.

Sorry, sixth place per 100k population: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

I'm not saying the government should make vaccines mandatory, I'm saying people should choose to get them even if they don't want to. Just like people should choose to exercise even if they don't want to. Their freedom to do whatever they want is good, but doing whatever you want isn't always best for you or others. I think we agree.

tomtomdrumdrum said:

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Sorry, sixth place per 100k population: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

I'm not saying the government should make vaccines mandatory, I'm saying people should choose to get them even if they don't want to. Just like people should choose to exercise even if they don't want to. Their freedom to do whatever they want is good, but doing whatever you want isn't always best for you or others. I think we agree.

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We agree.

Which part is dumb? The previous poster compared it to driving a car? They're all dumb arguments is my point. But to each their own, whatever. I just don't understand the reluctance to get a vaccine for yourself, your family and everyone else around you for the rest of time. It used to be the hippies that we would make fun of for their anti-vax ways and keeping ancient illnesses around in our communities now it's the common conservative who is pushing the narrative. It's sad how much we have allowed ourselves to become irrational to either extreme. It's now cool to be a hippy and get vaccinated, and if you're on the other side of the political spectrum it's not cool. Like really? You don't think that is completely silly?

I think that people should do what they want. I haven't gotten it and have no plans to. I owe absolutely nothing to others in that regard.

The solution is simple. Get back to normal. Right now.

I get that, nobody owes anybody anything, but that's what separates us from the animals in this world. You should be able to do what you want, but why would you not want to try and help a problem that without your assistance can get others to include your friends and family killed either now or in the future by not taking this thing out right now? That is the argument I am fighting, not that you shouldn't be allowed to do what you want in general. Just because we're allowed to do whatever we want doesn't mean we should, we should be smart enough to discern the difference from government control of our freedoms and helping make the world a safer place. But I digress, we can agree to disagree with one another on this, so be it.

ontherocks said:

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Which part is dumb? The previous poster compared it to driving a car? They're all dumb arguments is my point. But to each their own, whatever. I just don't understand the reluctance to get a vaccine for yourself, your family and everyone else around you for the rest of time. It used to be the hippies that we would make fun of for their anti-vax ways and keeping ancient illnesses around in our communities now it's the common conservative who is pushing the narrative. It's sad how much we have allowed ourselves to become irrational to either extreme. It's now cool to be a hippy and get vaccinated, and if you're on the other side of the political spectrum it's not cool. Like really? You don't think that is completely silly?

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Some of us have already had the virus. We already are protected.

Oh and hit the treadmill and you won't have to worry about the next virus that targets the weak.

ontherocks said:

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I get that, nobody owes anybody anything, but that's what separates us from the animals in this world. You should be able to do what you want, but why would you not want to try and help a problem that without your assistance can get others to include your friends and family killed either now or in the future by not taking this thing out right now? That is the argument I am fighting, not that you shouldn't be allowed to do what you want in general. Just because we're allowed to do whatever we want doesn't mean we should, we should be smart enough to discern the difference from government control of our freedoms and helping make the world a safer place. But I digress, we can agree to disagree with one another on this, so be it.

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My friends and family can get vaccinated. The vaccines are basically 100% effective at preventing severe illness or death, and my friends are generally in the demographic where they face greater risk driving a car than from the virus.

I agree. Driving a car is generally more dangerous for some than covid but we can't get rid of transportation so it's a risk we have to take, covid is not a risk we have to take with a vaccine available. Reduction of risk for everyone is what this is about. When we can reduce it without much hassle, reduce it, when we can't, we'll F-it, we have to live with those things. Anything I can do that doesn't really mess up my daily life I will do to protect a life. But that's me, everyone as you say, has a right to do whatever the hell they want, your choice.