ORAggieFan said:

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aTm2004 said:

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ORAggieFan said:

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aTm2004 said:

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ORAggieFan said:

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aTm2004 said:

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What's the incentive to get the vaccine if nothing changes after you get it?

Also, the push by the government, media, and societal pressure to get a vaccine that did not exist a year ago, is not helping either. We have over a year's worth of data to know which groups are at greater risk, and someone who is of little risk shouldn't be pressured or required to get it. If they choose to, they should be able to. Likewise, if someone chooses not to because they reviewed the data and see they are a minimal risk, their decision should be respected as well.

No matter your views on COVID, the tribalism that has formed because of it is leading to a divide in this country that should never exist.

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Right or wrong, it's the same reason we push for vaccines of so much more. Not everyone can get a vaccine. Spoke to a guy who's last flu shot put him in the hospital for two days. Those who are able and unwilling put others at risk who aren't unwilling, just unable.

Pressure didn't exist last year because we didn't have a vaccine. Pressure has been there for years for other vaccines since the idiots that began to believe they caused autism.

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I don't recall there ever being any pressure to get a vaccine before. My company, like may, paid for our flu shots (had nurses come in for a couple of days) and they'd recommend it. They're not requiring the COVID vaccine, but they send out emails almost weekly strongly encouraging it.

Grade schools require vaccines but do grant exceptions. Never heard of a college or university requiring a certain vaccine to attend the way some are requiring a COVID vaccine.

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Because you've never lived in a pandemic before and with schools mostly requiring them before it's never been an issue.

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Have you ever wondered what other viruses/bacteria we have that would have the numbers we see with COVID if we tested like COVID?

Honestly, of all the people I know of who tested positive, only know 1 of them got tested because of symptoms. The rest was only because of contact tracing and they never had any symptoms.

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Look, we massively overreacted and butchered our handling of Covid. But, it is real. Many people did die. Others got sick (much worse than flu, no hospitalizations) and others barely got sick.

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Nobody is denying it's real. What's being questioned is if any of the damage done to the country actually prevented anything. Looking at state by state numbers, it doesn't look like it. It put my step-dad on his ass and he almost died. He ended up in the hospital because of it twice. The 2nd time was from him getting pneumonia, and they tried to push him out the next day. It took my mom having a literal stroke and ending up in the same hospital for them to actually start treating the pneumonia. Once they did, he magically got better. I asked my mom how many people just accepted the discharge and ended up dying from it because nobody advocated for them.

Also, he'll be the first one to tell you that we overreacted to COVID.

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My guess is if I got it, it likely would be mild. I really don't care about your small sample size that means nothing.

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That's just my small sample size. Start talking to others and that sample size grows. We all know people who have had it and most had no issues with it. If you want to ignore the majority to focus on the minority, that's fine. At least be honest about it.

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Deaths are up across the world. I do believe some of these deaths are due to the policies, which will continue for many years. But, I'm also smart enough to realize that many deaths happened due to Covid. And yes, most of those deaths were either in the elderly or the obese. But, I value those lives as well. I was never for lockdowns or masks. But, I'm happy to get a vaccine that is proving to help us get out of this.

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I don't think anyone is devaluing the lives lost. We're at a point with the vaccine that all of the vulnerable individuals have the opportunity to get the vaccine if they so choose to. It's time to set the date to return to 100% normalcy. Not everyone is going to get the vaccine, and you need to accept that. Life is full of risks and it seems like people are expecting a risk free world, which will never exist.

Forum Troll said:

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There's more to being vaccinated against COVID than preventing it from killing you if you got it (obviously low risk for most folks).

• not being sick as a dog for days and weeks on end (varies from person to person)
• not being hospitalized
• not spreading it to other non vaccinated people
• not developing one of these weird long haul type syndromes (this imo should be one of the biggest concerns of a young person getting COVID, sure you survive but chronic brain fog? chronic lung capacity issues? no thanks)

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All excellent points and I why I decided to get the shot. I'm 45 and in great health. Have exercised 4-6 days a week for over 25 years, run multiple marathons, lift weights, all that good stuff so I was never worried about dying but I don't want to be sick and possibly have this crap stay with me. One of the docs on here posted the mortality rate for Rona is very similar to regular flu but the morbidity rate is much higher and we still don't know everything about it. You do you but I saw no reason not to get the shot and am glad I did.

I completely agree we over reacted and have been saying that for months. Doesn't diminish the value of the vaccine and reasons for healthy to get it.

aTm2004 said:

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ORAggieFan said:

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aTm2004 said:

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What's the incentive to get the vaccine if nothing changes after you get it?

Also, the push by the government, media, and societal pressure to get a vaccine that did not exist a year ago, is not helping either. We have over a year's worth of data to know which groups are at greater risk, and someone who is of little risk shouldn't be pressured or required to get it. If they choose to, they should be able to. Likewise, if someone chooses not to because they reviewed the data and see they are a minimal risk, their decision should be respected as well.

No matter your views on COVID, the tribalism that has formed because of it is leading to a divide in this country that should never exist.

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Right or wrong, it's the same reason we push for vaccines of so much more. Not everyone can get a vaccine. Spoke to a guy who's last flu shot put him in the hospital for two days. Those who are able and unwilling put others at risk who aren't unwilling, just unable.

Pressure didn't exist last year because we didn't have a vaccine. Pressure has been there for years for other vaccines since the idiots that began to believe they caused autism.

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I don't recall there ever being any pressure to get a vaccine before. My company, like may, paid for our flu shots (had nurses come in for a couple of days) and they'd recommend it. They're not requiring the COVID vaccine, but they send out emails almost weekly strongly encouraging it.

Grade schools require vaccines but do grant exceptions. Never heard of a college or university requiring a certain vaccine to attend the way some are requiring a COVID vaccine.

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Just for info: I'm attending Mines for my Master's and I had to show proof of MM-R vaccine to enroll. Texas A&M also started to require bacterial meningitis vaccine just before I graduated.

I've got an Aunt who is a long hauler and an uncle had to have monoclonal antibody treatment. Lots of family friends who spent days sick and at least two that progressed to pneumonia and lost 10+ lbs while their kids shrugged it off in a few days with nothing but a runny nose.

Said this on another thread but a doctor friend / old lady from A&M days knows a dozen people dead, two in their 30's and a 23 y/o nurse. In no way is that the common outcome or even remotely likely, but the odds aren't zero either.

Another friend is a rheumatologist and acknowledged they're seeing "a ton of people every week" with post covid issues presenting in every flavor under the sun months after recovering.

All that to say, I'm glad that most people who got it came out the other side fine or just had a case of the sniffles, but at the end of the day it's a gamble given the variety of presentation this very strange bug has shown to be capable of -- whereas getting a vaccine has a very predictable outcome and yeah, you might be down for a day, but it sure as **** beats spinning the roulette wheel and maybe coming up sick as a dog for days or permanently disaffected or accidentally passing it on to someone who's odds aren't as good as yours.

Get the shot. Get the world back to normal faster.

SoupNazi2001 said:

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bigtruckguy3500 said:

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cone said:

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I've personally known multiple people in my age range who've gotten pneumonia from this bug

not all required hospitalization (one did and is still there) but I'm cool with avoiding pneumonia entirely

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I've seen multiple people in their 20's and 30's with persistent residual symptoms. Some are mild (5 months and barely getting back sense of smell/taste), and one went from running 3 miles in about 22-23 minutes to getting winded walking up a single flight of stairs.

I know I'm not going to die if I get this (short of snorting it like cocaine), but I still don't want it and all the potential long term side effects that come with it.

West Point Aggie said:

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These discussions are a little funny to me after receiving just about every possible shot while in the USAF. I still have my shot record and it is many many pages.

Of course my army doctor neighbor says military types have the right to opt out of this vaccineinsane.

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It's going to be mandatory soon. I'd say as soon as there's full FDA approval, you're going to see it mandatory within 2-3 weeks. So probably July timeframe. Maybe August.

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And I've known plenty like me who had mild allergy symptoms. Antecdotes are meaningless but the stats don't lie.

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What stats are you referring to? And what stats do you think my "anecdotes" compare to?

SoupNazi2001 said:

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bigtruckguy3500 said:

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SoupNazi2001 said:

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bigtruckguy3500 said:

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cone said:

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I've personally known multiple people in my age range who've gotten pneumonia from this bug

not all required hospitalization (one did and is still there) but I'm cool with avoiding pneumonia entirely

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I've seen multiple people in their 20's and 30's with persistent residual symptoms. Some are mild (5 months and barely getting back sense of smell/taste), and one went from running 3 miles in about 22-23 minutes to getting winded walking up a single flight of stairs.

I know I'm not going to die if I get this (short of snorting it like cocaine), but I still don't want it and all the potential long term side effects that come with it.

West Point Aggie said:

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These discussions are a little funny to me after receiving just about every possible shot while in the USAF. I still have my shot record and it is many many pages.

Of course my army doctor neighbor says military types have the right to opt out of this vaccineinsane.

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It's going to be mandatory soon. I'd say as soon as there's full FDA approval, you're going to see it mandatory within 2-3 weeks. So probably July timeframe. Maybe August.

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And I've known plenty like me who had mild allergy symptoms. Antecdotes are meaningless but the stats don't lie.

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What stats are you referring to? And what stats do you think my "anecdotes" compare to?

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Stats that show this virus is less dangerous to people in their 20s and 30s than the flu.

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How do you define dangerous? Death? What is an acceptable level of risk to you for a long term side effect that I described in my anecdotes? Were you just trying to be argumentative, or do you think my point that it's probably better to get the vaccine than risk a possibility of a long term effect from COVID has no merit?

The stats show most people who drink and drive don't get into accidents or die, I'd still rather not do that either since I've seen some bad drunk driving accidents.

bigtruckguy3500 said:

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SoupNazi2001 said:

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bigtruckguy3500 said:

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SoupNazi2001 said:

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bigtruckguy3500 said:

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cone said:

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I've personally known multiple people in my age range who've gotten pneumonia from this bug

not all required hospitalization (one did and is still there) but I'm cool with avoiding pneumonia entirely

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I've seen multiple people in their 20's and 30's with persistent residual symptoms. Some are mild (5 months and barely getting back sense of smell/taste), and one went from running 3 miles in about 22-23 minutes to getting winded walking up a single flight of stairs.

I know I'm not going to die if I get this (short of snorting it like cocaine), but I still don't want it and all the potential long term side effects that come with it.

West Point Aggie said:

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These discussions are a little funny to me after receiving just about every possible shot while in the USAF. I still have my shot record and it is many many pages.

Of course my army doctor neighbor says military types have the right to opt out of this vaccineinsane.

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It's going to be mandatory soon. I'd say as soon as there's full FDA approval, you're going to see it mandatory within 2-3 weeks. So probably July timeframe. Maybe August.

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And I've known plenty like me who had mild allergy symptoms. Antecdotes are meaningless but the stats don't lie.

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What stats are you referring to? And what stats do you think my "anecdotes" compare to?

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Stats that show this virus is less dangerous to people in their 20s and 30s than the flu.

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How do you define dangerous? Death? What is an acceptable level of risk to you for a long term side effect that I described in my anecdotes? Were you just trying to be argumentative, or do you think my point that it's probably better to get the vaccine than risk a possibility of a long term effect from COVID has no merit?

The stats show most people who drink and drive don't get into accidents or die, I'd still rather not do that either since I've seen some bad drunk driving accidents.

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You're focusing on the exceptions while ignoring the overwhelming majority who have minimal symptoms and no lasting side effects. I assure you, more people who have recovered from COVID are at risk from their diet than any effect from COVID.

here's the thing i don't get

so the risk is minimal

but you can effectively make it non-existent via two jabs, with at-worst side effects that last 24 hours and are completely manageable via OTC medicine with NO respiratory symptoms

how is that not an easy trade?

it's just baffling to me

Fitch said:

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I've got an Aunt who is a long hauler and an uncle had to have monoclonal antibody treatment. Lots of family friends who spent days sick and at least two that progressed to pneumonia and lost 10+ lbs while their kids shrugged it off in a few days with nothing but a runny nose.

Said this on another thread but a doctor friend / old lady from A&M days knows a dozen people dead, two in their 30's and a 23 y/o nurse. In no way is that the common outcome or even remotely likely, but the odds aren't zero either.

Another friend is a rheumatologist and acknowledged they're seeing "a ton of people every week" with post covid issues presenting in every flavor under the sun months after recovering.

All that to say, I'm glad that most people who got it came out the other side fine or just had a case of the sniffles, but at the end of the day it's a gamble given the variety of presentation this very strange bug has shown to be capable of -- whereas getting a vaccine has a very predictable outcome and yeah, you might be down for a day, but it sure as **** beats spinning the roulette wheel and maybe coming up sick as a dog for days or permanently disaffected or accidentally passing it on to someone who's odds aren't as good as yours.

Get the shot. Get the world back to normal faster.

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Your risk tolerance is waaaay off. You need to stop driving or riding in an automobile.

cone said:

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here's the thing i don't get

so the risk is minimal

but you can effectively make it non-existent via two jabs, with at-worst side effects that last 24 hours and are completely manageable via OTC medicine with NO respiratory symptoms

how is that not an easy trade?

it's just baffling to me

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Fine. Then pay for the time to get it and the possibility of having cold-like symptoms for a couple of days. I make about $2,500 a day. Pay me $5k and I'll take the time to get it this weekend.

Honestly, the chances of anything major happening from COVID or the vaccine are pretty minimal for a significant majority of people. All we do is choose whichever unknown we are more comfortable with. For me, and many others, we are taking our chances with COVID vs a non-FDA approved vaccine that is produced by companies given immunity through 2024 and protected by a program where you have 1 year from the date of vaccination to file a lawsuit if something happens.

That doesn't make us anti-vax or anything remotely similar to the anti-vax crowd out there. We are simply choosing one unknown rather than choosing another unknown to avoid the other unknown. Now, if I was a diabetic, a cancer survivor, or in my 60's, the choice would be much different as the numbers show which is a greater risk.

Fitch said:

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I've got an Aunt who is a long hauler and an uncle had to have monoclonal antibody treatment. Lots of family friends who spent days sick and at least two that progressed to pneumonia and lost 10+ lbs while their kids shrugged it off in a few days with nothing but a runny nose.

Said this on another thread but a doctor friend / old lady from A&M days knows a dozen people dead, two in their 30's and a 23 y/o nurse. In no way is that the common outcome or even remotely likely, but the odds aren't zero either.

Another friend is a rheumatologist and acknowledged they're seeing "a ton of people every week" with post covid issues presenting in every flavor under the sun months after recovering.

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You're taking to people with jaded views on it. They see the worse of it and assume it's that way for everyone, which it's not. They're not seeing or telling you about the countless others who had no or minimal issues and no long term effects. It reminds me of a conversation I had with a retired LEO who told me he had to learn early in his career to turn it off when he was off shift. When I asked him what he meant, he told me that he dealt with some of the worst people in the world, and he had to step out of his LEO mindset while he was off the job so he didn't see every guy as an alcoholic husband who abuses his wife and kids, didn't see every single mother as someone who allows their boyfriend to molest her daughter because he funds her drug habit, etc. He said he could remember in vivid detail the worst cases he was involved in but very few of the positive interactions he had with the public. I think we're seeing something similar from the medical community.

The point is, when all you see is the bad you forget about the good, which vastly outnumbers the bad.

cone said:

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here's the thing i don't get

so the risk is minimal

but you can effectively make it non-existent via two jabs, with at-worst side effects that last 24 hours and are completely manageable via OTC medicine with NO respiratory symptoms

how is that not an easy trade?

it's just baffling to me

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This isn't true at all. Maybe for most but but there have certainly been worse side effects recorded.

01agtx said:

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cone said:

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here's the thing i don't get

so the risk is minimal

but you can effectively make it non-existent via two jabs, with at-worst side effects that last 24 hours and are completely manageable via OTC medicine with NO respiratory symptoms

how is that not an easy trade?

it's just baffling to me

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This isn't true at all. Maybe for most but but there have certainly been worse side effects recorded.

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COVID has minor issues with most it is a minor cold. But there have been worse side effects recorded.

Fitch said:

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I've got an Aunt who is a long hauler and an uncle had to have monoclonal antibody treatment. Lots of family friends who spent days sick and at least two that progressed to pneumonia and lost 10+ lbs while their kids shrugged it off in a few days with nothing but a runny nose.

Said this on another thread but a doctor friend / old lady from A&M days knows a dozen people dead, two in their 30's and a 23 y/o nurse. In no way is that the common outcome or even remotely likely, but the odds aren't zero either.

Another friend is a rheumatologist and acknowledged they're seeing "a ton of people every week" with post covid issues presenting in every flavor under the sun months after recovering.

All that to say, I'm glad that most people who got it came out the other side fine or just had a case of the sniffles, but at the end of the day it's a gamble given the variety of presentation this very strange bug has shown to be capable of -- whereas getting a vaccine has a very predictable outcome and yeah, you might be down for a day, but it sure as **** beats spinning the roulette wheel and maybe coming up sick as a dog for days or permanently disaffected or accidentally passing it on to someone who's odds aren't as good as yours.

Get the shot. Get the world back to normal faster.

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No

Here's the actual CDC data...
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographics

Main thing to take from it:
Age 65+ account for 13.8% of cases, but 80.6% of deaths
50-64 account for 20.4% of cases and 14.8% of deaths
18-49 account for 53.8% of cases and 4.6% of deaths
0-17 account for 12.1% of cases and 0.1% of deaths

I read the data and make my own value judgements independent of anecdotes, but they do provide human context that's otherwise lost in the bar charts. By all means, those young deaths are far far and away the exception, and were quite likely a product of medical personnel enduring a high level of viral exposure, but the fact stubbornly remains it's not a zero despite often being often dismissed as such.

My lifestyle affords a lot of freedom and given a naturally higher risk tolerance, and I prefer to take full advantage of the unique times independent of nagging worry I might be taken out sick for a week or two or lose the ability to taste/smell or haphazardly make someone else sick, so I got the shot.

Why even play the game when there are cards like that in the deck...when you literally can take them out entirely?

Fitch said:

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I read the data and make my own value judgements independent of anecdotes, but they do provide human context that's otherwise lost in the bar charts. By all means, those young deaths are far far and away the exception, and were quite likely a product of medical personnel enduring a high level of viral exposure, but the fact stubbornly remains it's not a zero despite often being often dismissed as such.

My lifestyle affords a lot of freedom and given a naturally higher risk tolerance, and I prefer to take full advantage of the unique times independent of nagging worry I might be taken out sick for a week or two or lose the ability to taste/smell or haphazardly make someone else sick, so I got the shot.

Why even play the game when there are cards like that in the deck...when you literally can take them out entirely?

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Because catching the rona has already taken those cards out of the deck for many of us with a higher risk tolerance than you. All you are advocating is wasting time.

Fitch said:

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I read the data and make my own value judgements independent of anecdotes, but they do provide human context that's otherwise lost in the bar charts. By all means, those young deaths are far far and away the exception, and were quite likely a product of medical personnel enduring a high level of viral exposure, but the fact stubbornly remains it's not a zero despite often being often dismissed as such.

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Nobody is saying it's a zero. We're saying, as you just did, it's the exception and almost statically irrelevant. Yet people are making decisions from it where, IMO, we shouldn't focus on those cases.

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My lifestyle affords a lot of freedom and given a naturally higher risk tolerance, and I prefer to take full advantage of the unique times independent of nagging worry I might be taken out sick for a week or two or lose the ability to taste/smell or haphazardly make someone else sick, so I got the shot.

Why even play the game when there are cards like that in the deck...when you literally can take them out entirely?

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Again, you're preventing one unknown by choosing another unknown. You're essentially in a vaccine trial right now. The odds of something major happening to you are very very low, just like the odds of something major happening if you got COVID. For all you know, you may have already had it.

ORAggieFan said:

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beerad12man said:

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Is this a bit of a change in tone from Fauci in terms of the vaccine? It seems to be one of his more positive messages of late with how good they are. I wonder if they sense the wane in demand and realize they need to get more positivity going towards them

"A person who makes that decision is looking at themselves in totally a vacuum."
Dr. Anthony Fauci reacts to Joe Rogan saying young people do not need to get vaccinated.
"You have to put a little societal responsibility in your choices and that's where I disagree with Mr. Rogan." pic.twitter.com/eK8oN3sTX6

— CNN Newsroom (@CNNnewsroom) April 28, 2021

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If that's the case, they're doing a horrible job. Weeks/months ago was time to start the do whatever you want if vaccinated message. They wait until yesterday to just say it when alone outside.....

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Fauci

"ok all you young healthy people, your life choices impact others"

"Ok fat lazy people, here's your free money"

See there we fundamentally disagree. With a billion people vaccinated and 12+ months of data the experiment is over. That's like saying a car engine is still experimental because a new model came out. So far as I'm aware, the probability of severe reaction, let alone death, to any of the vaccines is incomparable minuscule relative to the already not very high odds of the same from natural infection, so I can't see how that's trading one set of unknowns for another.

It's interesting to observe people who had contracted it naturally, and had a minor case or no symptoms think they have as resilient an immune response as the two shot mRNA efficacy. I'd be keen to see the data on that.