Facts and reason are facing enough challenges from domestic anti-vax nuts without a deliberate campaign by Russia and China to further sow distrust in vaccine safety and effectiveness.

Misinformation

EDIT: 1. The "anti-vax nuts" I'm referring to are the long-standing groups opposed to all vaccines and which have also mobilized against Covid vaccination. 2. The article is from Reuters, not MSN, and does not advocate, or even mention, inoculating those who already have natural immunity.

The biggest problem with vaccine reluctance is the messaging that nothing changes if you get it.

Why should people who've already had the virus get vaccinated?
Looking at the hospitalization and fatality rates, why should anyone not in a high-risk category get vaccinated?

Just looking at the numbers and science.

Scruffy said:

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Why should people who've already had the virus get vaccinated?
Looking at the hospitalization and fatality rates, why should anyone not in a high-risk category get vaccinated?

Just looking at the numbers and science.

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WTF does that have to do with my post?

your post is from MSN.com

a propaganda site in its own right

[url] https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/2021/4/28/22406224/vaccine-hesitancy-rush-medical-center-hospital-covid-19-chicago[/url]

The official narrative is that people need to listen to their friend's concerns and talk to them calmly to be able to convince them to take the vaccine

SoupNazi2001 said:

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74OA said:

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Scruffy said:

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Why should people who've already had the virus get vaccinated?
Looking at the hospitalization and fatality rates, why should anyone not in a high-risk category get vaccinated?

Just looking at the numbers and science.

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WTF does that have to do with my post?

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It has a lot to do with your post because there are millions of people who had mild cases of Covid already that won't be getting vaccinated. It doesn't make us anti-vax, it just makes logical sense which I know logic doesn't work when talking about Covid.

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If you'd bothered to read the article, you'd know that it doesn't say anything about that. I agree that if you're naturally immune, you don't need the vax.

What the article is about is a foreign campaign to undermine confidence in the vaccines for those who do need them.

Agree with you soup.

Many who had Covid and recovered may never get the vax or may wait a year or two or three before they get the vax....doesn't mean they are anti-vax

A lot of virtue signaling going on in the vax world

JP_Losman said:

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your post is from MSN.com

a propaganda site in its own right

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It's from Reuters
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-disinformation-idUSKBN2CF2DW

Motracicletraficificker said:

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Agree with you soup.

Many who had Covid and recovered may never get the vax or may wait a year or two or three before they get the vax....doesn't mean they are anti-vax

A lot of virtue signaling going on in the vax world

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.....and a lot of off-topic trolling going on here, too.

The article is about foreign misinformation campaigns designed to discourage vaccine acceptance in those who need them. No where does it say anything about inoculating those who are already naturally immune.

Did you even read the damn thing?

JP_Losman said:

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your post is from MSN.com

a propaganda site in its own right

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It's from Reuters. If you'd even bothered to read it, you'd know that.

Sure, it would be great if even more got vaccinated. I see no harm in it, and it can only potentially help. Though others will argue the long term unknown of the vaccine. I think that's so unrealistic it's not worth worry about, but I digress. Either way, it's not a concern of mine. The UK and Israel are showing a tendency to begin to plummet in numbers at only 40-45% total population vaccinated, and only about 50-55% of adults. This makes sense because even a single dose is very likely to keep you out of the hospital and help suppress the virus from spreading, every indication is that this thing has spread to about 25-40% of the population in any given country that can be added to vaccinated immunity, this natural immunity is proving to be very strong with long term resistance likely, children do not seem to be as strong of vectors as adults(an article came about about for every 20% of adults vaccinated, children rates lowered in half). So the 40-45% inflection point likely leads to quite a bit of suppression of the virus ability to find new hosts when you consider this means many areas have 60+% of their community with at least some immunity with natural infections. And maybe even 70% among the adult populations.

So, my predictions moving forward?

• We end up with only about 62-65% of adults vaccinated by mid summer in the US. We are at 54.6% now.


• People will freak out about getting more vaccinated and that we can't go to normal until we do, but....


• Numbers will continue plummet in May as they are already indicating they are about to do (cases, deaths, hospitalizations, everything) and continue into June despite the slowing down of these vaccines.


• Variants won't be a concern as the basic way the virus attacks people is the same, and the vast majority of vaccinated and naturally immune people will recognize this and fight it off with minor to no symptoms. The human body tends to always beat viruses such as this over time and make it less and less deadly.


• There will be a slight seasonal casedemic in Texas in June/July, many will freak out over saying it's the variants, the mutations will cause us to all start over. It's all the republican states fault! But again, nothing will come of it, deaths and hospitalizations won't follow due to the vaccines in the elderly population, and of course continued natural immunity being high.


• Each wave this summer, to this winter, to next summer, will be less and less. IFR will get lower and lower, and deaths trend to that of normal respiratory illness seasons within the next 6 months.

beerad12man said:

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Sure, it would be great if even more got vaccinated. I see no harm in it, and it can only potentially help. Though others will argue the long term unknown of the vaccine. I think that's so unrealistic it's not worth worry about, but I digress. Either way, it's not a concern of mine. The UK and Israel are showing a tendency to begin to plummet in numbers at only 40-45% total population vaccinated, and only about 50-55% of adults. This makes sense because even a single dose is very likely to keep you out of the hospital and help suppress the virus from spreading, every indication is that this thing has spread to about 25-40% of the population in any given country that can be added to vaccinated immunity, this natural immunity is proving to be very strong with long term resistance likely, children do not seem to be as strong of vectors as adults(an article came about about for every 20% of adults vaccinated, children rates lowered in half). So the 40-45% inflection point likely leads to quite a bit of suppression of the virus ability to find new hosts when you consider this means many areas have 60+% of their community with at least some immunity with natural infections. And maybe even 70% among the adult populations.

So, my predictions moving forward?

• We end up with only about 62-65% of adults vaccinated by mid summer in the US. We are at 54.6% now.
• People will freak out about getting more vaccinated and that we can't go to normal until we do, but....
• Numbers will continue plummet in May as they are already indicating they are about to do (cases, deaths, hospitalizations, everything) and continue into June despite the slowing down of these vaccines.
• Variants won't be a concern as the basic way the virus attacks people is the same, and the vast majority of vaccinated and naturally immune people will recognize this and fight it off with minor to no symptoms. The human body tends to always beat viruses such as this over time and make it less and less deadly.
• There will be a slight seasonal casedemic in Texas in June/July, many will freak out over saying it's the variants, the mutations will cause us to all start over. It's all the republican states fault! But again, nothing will come of it, deaths and hospitalizations won't follow due to the vaccines in the elderly population, and of course continued natural immunity being high.
• Each wave this summer, to this winter, to next summer, will be less and less. IFR will get lower and lower, and deaths trend to that of normal respiratory illness seasons within the next 6 months.

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That's all nice, but my OP is about a Russian/Chinese misinformation campaign to discourage trust in Western vaccines globally. We may soon reach the herd immunity tipping point via vaccines and natural immunity here, but most of the world hasn't.

And I'm saying the vast majority have made up their mind across the globe about whether they are taking it or not. I just don't worry about the 5-10% of those trying to push anti vaxx right now. We'll see if it creates a problem down the road, but for now it's an unnecessary worry. Real world data is showing we don't need 80-90% of the population vaccinated. If we did, then it would be a big worry. But with likely only needing to get to 55-60% to have reasonable control, it doesn't seem to worry me now.

There's more to being vaccinated against COVID than preventing it from killing you if you got it (obviously low risk for most folks).

• not being sick as a dog for days and weeks on end (varies from person to person)
• not being hospitalized
• not spreading it to other non vaccinated people
• not developing one of these weird long haul type syndromes (this imo should be one of the biggest concerns of a young person getting COVID, sure you survive but chronic brain fog? chronic lung capacity issues? no thanks)

74OA said:

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Facts and reason are facing enough challenges from domestic anti-vax nuts without a deliberate campaign by Russia and China to further sow distrust in vaccine safety and effectiveness.

Misinformation

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Staff:

Sure would be nice to see the same amount of "Moderation" applied to people on this board that refer to people that don't want the vaccine as "anti-vax nuts". Or is that allowable speech on this board?

Serious question in lieu of the recent word(s) that have been blacklisted...

Edit to add:

I actually appreciate the information that is shared on this board and am not here to name call or to be called names.

Maybe if they'd spent the last 20 years actually listening to parents concerns instead of gaslighting them, we wouldn't be in this situation.

What's the incentive to get the vaccine if nothing changes after you get it?

Also, the push by the government, media, and societal pressure to get a vaccine that did not exist a year ago, is not helping either. We have over a year's worth of data to know which groups are at greater risk, and someone who is of little risk shouldn't be pressured or required to get it. If they choose to, they should be able to. Likewise, if someone chooses not to because they reviewed the data and see they are a minimal risk, their decision should be respected as well.

No matter your views on COVID, the tribalism that has formed because of it is leading to a divide in this country that should never exist.

As an individual you are right. Nothing changes, at least not right away. But that's not really where the focus should be. I think it's disingenuous to think nothing will change. I still firmly believe that as numbers go down, which is in large part because of vaccinations going up, more and more restrictions will ease up and we will trend back to normal. I would have no doubt that if 70% of the population were willing to get it, we'd be 100% back to normal a lot quicker than we will be due to the hesitancy and likely stopping closer to 55-60% of the population getting it.

Now, if Fauci once again moves the goalposts as we get to 60% vaccinated, as he's now saying 30/40k cases are too high, and he ever says 10k cases are too high, then all bets are off. He will just continue to prove his incompetence with messaging. But I have a feeling things get back to normal a lot quicker than some suspect(even if some lingering of masks or fear mongering of variants hangs around, in general mostly normal), and it will be in large part due to the vaccines.

ORAggieFan said:

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aTm2004 said:

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What's the incentive to get the vaccine if nothing changes after you get it?

Also, the push by the government, media, and societal pressure to get a vaccine that did not exist a year ago, is not helping either. We have over a year's worth of data to know which groups are at greater risk, and someone who is of little risk shouldn't be pressured or required to get it. If they choose to, they should be able to. Likewise, if someone chooses not to because they reviewed the data and see they are a minimal risk, their decision should be respected as well.

No matter your views on COVID, the tribalism that has formed because of it is leading to a divide in this country that should never exist.

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Right or wrong, it's the same reason we push for vaccines of so much more. Not everyone can get a vaccine. Spoke to a guy who's last flu shot put him in the hospital for two days. Those who are able and unwilling put others at risk who aren't unwilling, just unable.

Pressure didn't exist last year because we didn't have a vaccine. Pressure has been there for years for other vaccines since the idiots that began to believe they caused autism.

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I don't recall there ever being any pressure to get a vaccine before. My company, like may, paid for our flu shots (had nurses come in for a couple of days) and they'd recommend it. They're not requiring the COVID vaccine, but they send out emails almost weekly strongly encouraging it.

Grade schools require vaccines but do grant exceptions. Never heard of a college or university requiring a certain vaccine to attend the way some are requiring a COVID vaccine.

Quote:

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As an individual you are right. Nothing changes, at least not right away. But that's not really where the focus should be.

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That's exactly where the focus should be. If you're confident it works, act like it. There are some who do not want it, and their decision, whether or not you agree with it, should be respected. The data is available for them to make an educated decision about their health. "But they could get it and spread it to someone." Yes they can, and if that person who it was spread to was concerned, they would have been vaccinated. So we're back to if the vaccine works, act like it.

Fauci and/or Biden need to come out and say that all mandates are ending on June 1st. Vaccines are available to everyone, and if you choose to not get the vaccine for whatever reason, it's a choice you live with. They will never do it, but one could hope.

aTm2004 said:

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What's the incentive to get the vaccine if nothing changes after you get it?

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not getting bilateral pneumonia

that was my biggest driver tbh

aTm2004 said:

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ORAggieFan said:

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aTm2004 said:

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What's the incentive to get the vaccine if nothing changes after you get it?

Also, the push by the government, media, and societal pressure to get a vaccine that did not exist a year ago, is not helping either. We have over a year's worth of data to know which groups are at greater risk, and someone who is of little risk shouldn't be pressured or required to get it. If they choose to, they should be able to. Likewise, if someone chooses not to because they reviewed the data and see they are a minimal risk, their decision should be respected as well.

No matter your views on COVID, the tribalism that has formed because of it is leading to a divide in this country that should never exist.

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Right or wrong, it's the same reason we push for vaccines of so much more. Not everyone can get a vaccine. Spoke to a guy who's last flu shot put him in the hospital for two days. Those who are able and unwilling put others at risk who aren't unwilling, just unable.

Pressure didn't exist last year because we didn't have a vaccine. Pressure has been there for years for other vaccines since the idiots that began to believe they caused autism.

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I don't recall there ever being any pressure to get a vaccine before. My company, like may, paid for our flu shots (had nurses come in for a couple of days) and they'd recommend it. They're not requiring the COVID vaccine, but they send out emails almost weekly strongly encouraging it.

Grade schools require vaccines but do grant exceptions. Never heard of a college or university requiring a certain vaccine to attend the way some are requiring a COVID vaccine.

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Because you've never lived in a pandemic before and with schools mostly requiring them before it's never been an issue.

cone said:

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aTm2004 said:

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What's the incentive to get the vaccine if nothing changes after you get it?

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not getting bilateral pneumonia

that was my biggest driver tbh

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Assuming you're an otherwise healthy individual not nearing retirement, statistically, you had minimal risk of getting.

ORAggieFan said:

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aTm2004 said:

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ORAggieFan said:

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aTm2004 said:

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What's the incentive to get the vaccine if nothing changes after you get it?

Also, the push by the government, media, and societal pressure to get a vaccine that did not exist a year ago, is not helping either. We have over a year's worth of data to know which groups are at greater risk, and someone who is of little risk shouldn't be pressured or required to get it. If they choose to, they should be able to. Likewise, if someone chooses not to because they reviewed the data and see they are a minimal risk, their decision should be respected as well.

No matter your views on COVID, the tribalism that has formed because of it is leading to a divide in this country that should never exist.

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Right or wrong, it's the same reason we push for vaccines of so much more. Not everyone can get a vaccine. Spoke to a guy who's last flu shot put him in the hospital for two days. Those who are able and unwilling put others at risk who aren't unwilling, just unable.

Pressure didn't exist last year because we didn't have a vaccine. Pressure has been there for years for other vaccines since the idiots that began to believe they caused autism.

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I don't recall there ever being any pressure to get a vaccine before. My company, like may, paid for our flu shots (had nurses come in for a couple of days) and they'd recommend it. They're not requiring the COVID vaccine, but they send out emails almost weekly strongly encouraging it.

Grade schools require vaccines but do grant exceptions. Never heard of a college or university requiring a certain vaccine to attend the way some are requiring a COVID vaccine.

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Because you've never lived in a pandemic before and with schools mostly requiring them before it's never been an issue.

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Have you ever wondered what other viruses/bacteria we have that would have the numbers we see with COVID if we tested like COVID?

Honestly, of all the people I know of who tested positive, only know 1 of them got tested because of symptoms. The rest was only because of contact tracing and they never had any symptoms.

I've personally known multiple people in my age range who've gotten pneumonia from this bug

not all required hospitalization (one did and is still there) but I'm cool with avoiding pneumonia entirely

aTm2004 said:

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ORAggieFan said:

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aTm2004 said:

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ORAggieFan said:

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aTm2004 said:

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What's the incentive to get the vaccine if nothing changes after you get it?

Also, the push by the government, media, and societal pressure to get a vaccine that did not exist a year ago, is not helping either. We have over a year's worth of data to know which groups are at greater risk, and someone who is of little risk shouldn't be pressured or required to get it. If they choose to, they should be able to. Likewise, if someone chooses not to because they reviewed the data and see they are a minimal risk, their decision should be respected as well.

No matter your views on COVID, the tribalism that has formed because of it is leading to a divide in this country that should never exist.

---

Right or wrong, it's the same reason we push for vaccines of so much more. Not everyone can get a vaccine. Spoke to a guy who's last flu shot put him in the hospital for two days. Those who are able and unwilling put others at risk who aren't unwilling, just unable.

Pressure didn't exist last year because we didn't have a vaccine. Pressure has been there for years for other vaccines since the idiots that began to believe they caused autism.

---

I don't recall there ever being any pressure to get a vaccine before. My company, like may, paid for our flu shots (had nurses come in for a couple of days) and they'd recommend it. They're not requiring the COVID vaccine, but they send out emails almost weekly strongly encouraging it.

Grade schools require vaccines but do grant exceptions. Never heard of a college or university requiring a certain vaccine to attend the way some are requiring a COVID vaccine.

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Because you've never lived in a pandemic before and with schools mostly requiring them before it's never been an issue.

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Have you ever wondered what other viruses/bacteria we have that would have the numbers we see with COVID if we tested like COVID?

Honestly, of all the people I know of who tested positive, only know 1 of them got tested because of symptoms. The rest was only because of contact tracing and they never had any symptoms.

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Look, we massively overreacted and butchered our handling of Covid. But, it is real. Many people did die. Others got sick (much worse than flu, no hospitalizations) and others barely got sick. My guess is if I got it, it likely would be mild. I really don't care about your small sample size that means nothing. Deaths are up across the world. I do believe some of these deaths are due to the policies, which will continue for many years. But, I'm also smart enough to realize that many deaths happened due to Covid. And yes, most of those deaths were either in the elderly or the obese. But, I value those lives as well. I was never for lockdowns or masks. But, I'm happy to get a vaccine that is proving to help us get out of this.