Today Abbott issued an order to close bars, and reduce restaurant capacity back down to 50% among other things

What is he going to do, alternate bars being open 6 weeks and then closed 6 weeks until the end of time? There will be no bars left in Texas within a couple of months.

Rafting and tubing?!

There is zero scientific case for banning such outdoor activities.

Eventually maybe people will decide when we open things up that you still need to behave intelligently. Given the general ignorance of most of our society, I'm less than hopeful.

So 60K people ass to nuts in a protest is OK, but some tiny bar out in West Texas isn't? Unbelievable.

Prexys Moon said:

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So 60K people ass to nuts in a protest is OK, but some tiny bar out in West Texas isn't? Unbelievable.

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Who ever said it was "Ok" Did you expect him to bring in the National Guard to tear gas and arrest all of them? Because that would have gone over really well. Just because they didn't do that doesn't mean they were giving a blessing to the protests.

Think about it for a second. Do you think Abbott was ok with those protests? I sincerely doubt it. But did you expect him to just go to war with them?

SoupNazi2001 said:

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The fatality rate keeps coming down. If this is how we are going to react to an increase in cases with no material increase in deaths, school will never happen. Let the kids get it now, it isn't dangerous to them. They will shut down an entire school if one kid gets it.

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in person schooling this fall does look less and less likely

Shutting down schools is quite possibly the most fear-driven, anti-science thing possible.

Literally DOZENS of Euro nations have returned to school with no associated issues.

Some of these same bars had their shi* broken by rioters

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Keegan99 said:

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Shutting down schools is quite possibly the most fear-driven, anti-science thing possible.

Literally DOZENS of Euro nations have returned to school with no associated issues.

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Clearly millennials and Gen Z are the ones causing all this mess

Keegan99 said:

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Shutting down schools is quite possibly the most fear-driven, anti-science thing possible.

Literally DOZENS of Euro nations have returned to school with no associated issues.

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100% agreed. We do seem to have a bit more of a problem than most of those Euro nations tho.

TexasAggie008 said:

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Some of these same bars had their shi* broken by rioters

Abbott is a flat out coward

We need mega lawsuits ASAP

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What we need more than "mega lawsuits" is for people to not act like selfish effing ******s the next time things start swinging back towards opening up.

The entire "Let's just act like everything is normal!!" and "I'm not wearing a gawdamm mask because MURRICA" attitudes really helped get us to this point. Maybe next time people will decide to be a little smarter. Everyone said "Screw it! He will never close things back again"..... how is that working?

texan12 said:

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At what point do these measures delay herd immunity?

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The herd immunity that science isn't even settled on being a real impact?

PJYoung said:

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Keegan99 said:

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Shutting down schools is quite possibly the most fear-driven, anti-science thing possible.

Literally DOZENS of Euro nations have returned to school with no associated issues.

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100% agreed. We do seem to have a bit more of a problem than most of those Euro nations tho.

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Possibly because we shut down schools allowing the young build up a herd immunity while also not isolating our elderly? Maybe our approach was backwards?

Player To Be Named Later said:

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TexasAggie008 said:

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Some of these same bars had their shi* broken by rioters

Abbott is a flat out coward

We need mega lawsuits ASAP

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What we need more than "mega lawsuits" is for people to not act like selfish effing ******s the next time things start swinging back towards opening up.

The entire "Let's just act like everything is normal!!" and "I'm not wearing a gawdamm mask because MURRICA" attitudes really helped get us to this point. Maybe next time people will decide to be a little smarter. Everyone said "Screw it! He will never close things back again"..... how is that working?

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Politics aside, I wouldn't have a huge problem with this provided its driven by hospital capacity trends and has a clear termination criterion. I wish all of the restrictions had such basis. Also, has the case been made for why this needs to be applied statewide?

Right, because more lawsuits solves everything

Player To Be Named Later said:

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Prexys Moon said:

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So 60K people ass to nuts in a protest is OK, but some tiny bar out in West Texas isn't? Unbelievable.

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Who ever said it was "Ok" Did you expect him to bring in the National Guard to tear gas and arrest all of them? Because that would have gone over really well. Just because they didn't do that doesn't mean they were giving a blessing to the protests.

Think about it for a second. Do you think Abbott was ok with those protests? I sincerely doubt it. But did you expect him to just go to war with them?

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Well he is going to war with business owners

tysker said:

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PJYoung said:

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Keegan99 said:

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Shutting down schools is quite possibly the most fear-driven, anti-science thing possible.

Literally DOZENS of Euro nations have returned to school with no associated issues.

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100% agreed. We do seem to have a bit more of a problem than most of those Euro nations tho.

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Possibly because we shut down schools allowing the young build up a herd immunity while also not isolating our elderly? Maybe our approach was backwards?

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Maybe.

I think herd immunity takes a lot longer to achieve than most people realize tho.

Player To Be Named Later said:

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Right, because more lawsuits solves everything

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PJYoung said:

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tysker said:

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PJYoung said:

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Keegan99 said:

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Shutting down schools is quite possibly the most fear-driven, anti-science thing possible.

Literally DOZENS of Euro nations have returned to school with no associated issues.

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100% agreed. We do seem to have a bit more of a problem than most of those Euro nations tho.

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Possibly because we shut down schools allowing the young build up a herd immunity while also not isolating our elderly? Maybe our approach was backwards?

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Maybe.

I think herd immunity takes a lot longer to achieve than most people realize tho.

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Same can be said for vaccine development.

Doesn't seem to suggest that in NYC. I actually think it gets there quicker based on some of the graphs. Not necessarily "Herd immunity" in a scientific sense, but enough immunity to get the R below 1 along with even just some other decent measures. 50-60% mask adoption. Reducing some capacity, etc. but you don't have to scale things back to zero when you get to 20-25% infected.

In large part because of how many aren't really affected by This which helps in this regards imho . We don't need 70% infected to cause the r to go below one. 20-25%, with even just minor mask adoption is likely enough.

It's why some areas are spiking more where protests and openings are happening than others. IMO of course

My solution would be for people to act a little intelligently about opening up and not just run out like nothing is happening.

The absolutely staunch refusal by so many on this board to refuse to wear a mask or do things that might help is just mind boggling and pretty much why we are right back here.

I want things to open up. But I also want people to be smart about it and not just act like there is nothing wrong.

lead said:

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Politics aside, I wouldn't have a huge problem with this provided its driven by hospital capacity trends and has a clear termination criterion. I wish all of the restrictions had such basis. Also, has the case been made for why this needs to be applied statewide?

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For him to sign an order at 9a that takes effect at noon means they are seeing hospitalization capacity trending in the wrong direction way too fast. It's an extreme action to try to save us from being overrun in 10 days to 2 weeks. Houston is being talked about as being the center of the epidemic in the United States in early July - worse than anything we've seen so far.

I find that very hard to believe but those projections are what caused this order. No doubt.

Projections. 2 weeks. They've never been wrong.

beerad12man said:

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Doesn't seem to suggest that in NYC. I actually think it gets there quicker based on some of the graphs. Not necessarily "Herd immunity" in a scientific sense, but enough immunity to get the R below 1 along with even just some other decent measures. 50-60% mask adoption. Reducing some capacity, etc. but you don't have to scale things back to zero when you get to 20-25% infected.

In large part because of how many aren't really affected by This which helps in this regards imho . We don't need 70% infected to cause the r to go below one. 20-25%, with even just minor mask adoption is likely enough.

It's why some areas are spiking more where protests and openings are happening than others. IMO of course

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Those graphs are interesting, aren't they? It's almost like in most areas it mutates to a less infectious form without getting near the 70% herd immunity figure.

And I 100% agree about the masks.

[Ags, This forum is not about political style comments. Please post such comments over on the Political Forum. - Staff]

The decisions made regarding COVID are significantly driven by politics, that's very clear.

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https://texags.com/forums/84/topics/3099779

beerad12man said:

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Projections. 2 weeks. They've never been wrong.

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I think it's different when they are seeing hospitalizations go up as fast as they've gone up in the past week or two with new infections spiking at the same time.

I'll add this. The longer everyone keeps treating this as some huge political issue and being divided on EVERYTHING related to it instead of finding a middle ground and working together, the longer we'll keep having issues.

The fact that something like wearing a mask is seen as a political thing is pretty unreal. This is why I have no hope for our country. Everything has to be turned into a fight.

Player To Be Named Later said:

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I'll add this. The longer everyone keeps treating this as some huge political issue and being divided on EVERYTHING related to it instead of finding a middle ground and working together, the longer we'll keep having issues.

The fact that something like wearing a mask is seen as a political thing is pretty unreal. This is why I have no hope for our country. Everything has to be turned into a fight.

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How can there be middle ground when people's livelihoods are threatened in a systematic way because of policy decisions? Some people on here own businesses, believe it or not.

In Houston...

Cases are up significantly


Positive test rate is up significantly, meaning that this isn't just a factor of testing more people


COVID Hospitalizations are up:


"Normal" ICU Capacity has been exceeded due to the upwards trend and we are now on a path to exceed "sustainable surge capacity" within 2 weeks.



I can say from first hand experience it is absolutely crazy to try to get a test in Houston right now.

You can see from doctors who work in Texas hospitals that there has been an exponential increase in hypoxic patients coming to hospitals with COVID (not just coming for other reasons and coincidentally testing positive). See this quote from Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag (https://texags.com/account/profile/165507):

Quote:

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Texas is seeing more cases than everywhere else outside of Florida and Phoenix because we are seeing a huge surge in cases, not because we are testing more. Everywhere in the country is testing more. You think they stopped testing an NYC? Let's stop doing mental gymnastics to avoid recognizing the obvious situation we are in. Our ERs in San Antonio are inundated with COVID patients right now, and not just young, healthy patients. We went from 2-3 Covid patients a day, to 50-60 in just 2 weeks. We are hurting in a bad way.

No need to live in fear, but take precautions, protect those that are vulnerable, and don't be a moron.

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and

Quote:

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Likely opening back up, coupled with lack of mask usage, and people crowding into bars. Of all my positive or presumptive positive young patients, every single one of them reported going to a bar or a dance club within 1-2 weeks of seeing me in the ER. Every single one. Now of the older individuals I've seen recently, most live with younger family members at home, or have caregivers

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It seems quite reasonable to review all that and conclude that maybe bars shouldn't be open!