Prexys Moon said:

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So 60K people ass to nuts in a protest is OK, but some tiny bar out in West Texas isn't? Unbelievable.

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Uh - the order also bans outdoor gatherings of 100 or more so I think most of your protests are also banned under this order.

Keegan99 said:

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Rafting and tubing?!

There is zero scientific case for banning such outdoor activities.

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It's not the rafting/tubing part that's the issue - it's the people packed together on buses, at the get in/out areas, etc.

And rafting/tubing isn't banned - just the outfitter services aren't allowed to run.

Govt is going to have to issue another PPP round.

Marcus Aurelius said:

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Govt is going to have to issue another PPP round.

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Probably, but small businesses can only take on so much debt. And if they are going to be alternatively opened and closed on 6-8 week intervals, then there is no point. Also the government can't just spend $2 trillion 3-4 times a year, there's going to be a limit.

agforlife97 said:

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Player To Be Named Later said:

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I'll add this. The longer everyone keeps treating this as some huge political issue and being divided on EVERYTHING related to it instead of finding a middle ground and working together, the longer we'll keep having issues.

The fact that something like wearing a mask is seen as a political thing is pretty unreal. This is why I have no hope for our country. Everything has to be turned into a fight.

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How can there be middle ground when people's livelihoods are threatened in a systematic way because of policy decisions? Some people on here own businesses, believe it or not.

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So those business owners couldn't push publicly for people wearing masks at their businesses? Would that not be a remotely acceptable middle ground?

But sure, let's keep up the "my way or the highway" attitude. Seems to be working well.

They are forgivable as long as you don't cut payroll less than 20% I believe. We took one out which saved us.

Player To Be Named Later said:

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agforlife97 said:

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Player To Be Named Later said:

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I'll add this. The longer everyone keeps treating this as some huge political issue and being divided on EVERYTHING related to it instead of finding a middle ground and working together, the longer we'll keep having issues.

The fact that something like wearing a mask is seen as a political thing is pretty unreal. This is why I have no hope for our country. Everything has to be turned into a fight.

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How can there be middle ground when people's livelihoods are threatened in a systematic way because of policy decisions? Some people on here own businesses, believe it or not.

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So those business owners couldn't push publicly for people wearing masks at their businesses? Would that not be a remotely acceptable middle ground?

But sure, let's keep up the "my way or the highway" attitude. Seems to be working well.

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Seems like a straw man argument. Every bar is requiring masks if you aren't seated and drinking. Yes, there are people refusing to comply, but you can't really do anything to them.

Yep, this will be the final nail for bars and businesses that were just barely hanging on. Hopefully there are lawsuits coming soon and maybe our Supreme Court can save them like Wisconsin's did

You think, on the whole, people have been smart about this?

When I have listened to people run their mouths about how nobody is gonna tell them to wear a mask... a relatively simple measure, and it is helping to put us right back in this position, yeah I'm not gonna be impressed.

My dad is also a private business owner, with a store in a busy mall. So people largely refusing to be smart about things and likely getting things closed again bothers me.

Seems a lot of people took the "everything is open again, and they'll NEVER go backwards on re-opening again" attitude, so they just went back to carrying on like normal. Well, here we are. Sorry if I'm not just piling all the blame om Abbott

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Yep, this will be the final nail for bars and businesses that were just barely hanging on. Hopefully there are lawsuits coming soon and maybe our Supreme Court can save them like Wisconsin's did

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Why? What should happen instead? We tried the 'everyone please be responsible' approach and look where we are.

ETFan said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Yep, this will be the final nail for bars and businesses that were just barely hanging on. Hopefully there are lawsuits coming soon and maybe our Supreme Court can save them like Wisconsin's did

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Why? What should happen instead? We tried the 'everyone please be responsible' approach and look where we are.

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You'd probably think differently if you owned a bar. And PPP may work temporarily but it won't work forever. Those loans take time, and there is a limit to how much money the feds can spend. And who even knows if the Dems will approve money for Texas?

I'll admit this uptick is threatening that more so than we've had. I'm still not sure shutting down and going backwards is the answer though. I also think the anti mask people(I was one, but have come around even though I absolutely despite them) are worried that businesses will still be closed. If there was a sense of security

If it was just mandated at all indoor activities we'd probably be fine

ETFan said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Yep, this will be the final nail for bars and businesses that were just barely hanging on. Hopefully there are lawsuits coming soon and maybe our Supreme Court can save them like Wisconsin's did

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Why? What should happen instead? We tried the 'everyone please be responsible' approach and look where we are.

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Where exactly are we? A media driven fear mongering frenzy.

Yeah, this is ALL just because of the media.

Abbott just sat down, spent 30 minutes watching FOX, 30 minutes watching CNN, and 30 minutes reading Internet media and made his decision.

I'm sure he has zero input and real numbers coming his way from professionals that aren't in the media.

I've posted this concern before but I really wish more would be relayed about the long term effects of this thing instead of this constant push about number of deaths being the only measure that counts. Maybe if that was the message people would stop being so defiant about being socially responsible.

Quote:

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While coronavirus symptoms typically resolve in two or three weeks, an estimated 1 in 10 experience prolonged symptoms, Dr. Helen Salisbury of the University of Oxford wrote in the British Medical Journal on Tuesday.
Salisbury said many of her patients have normal chest X-rays and no sign of inflammation, but they are still not back to normal.
"If you previously ran 5k three times a week and now feel breathless after a single flight of stairs, or if you cough incessantly and are too exhausted to return to work, then the fear that you may never regain your previous health is very real," she wrote.

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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-effects/scientists-just-beginning-to-understand-the-many-health-problems-caused-by-covid-19-idUSKBN23X1BZ

Player To Be Named Later said:

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You think, on the whole, people have been smart about this?

When I have listened to people run their mouths about how nobody is gonna tell them to wear a mask... a relatively simple measure, and it is helping to put us right back in this position, yeah I'm not gonna be impressed.

My dad is also a private business owner, with a store in a busy mall. So people largely refusing to be smart about things and likely getting things closed again bothers me.

Seems a lot of people took the "everything is open again, and they'll NEVER go backwards on re-opening again" attitude, so they just went back to carrying on like normal. Well, here we are. Sorry if I'm not just piling all the blame om Abbott

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Yes people are taking this seriously everywhere I go. People are generally taking precuations and with some excpetions people are generally polite. The worst place seems to be Costco where masks are required . Not every place looks like TexAgs politics board.

texan12 said:

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Player To Be Named Later said:

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Right, because more lawsuits solves everything

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What's your solution? I'm genuinely curious. Do you also see the other side's point that healthy people should be able to get back to a somewhat normal routine without being considered selfish?

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Do you have some way of knowing who is healthy and who is not? Apparently the Gundy method doesn't work because there are a s***load of athletes getting it.

Player To Be Named Later said:

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Yeah, this is ALL just because of the media.

Abbott just sat down, spent 30 minutes watching FOX, 30 minutes watching CNN, and 30 minutes reading Internet media and made his decision.

I'm sure he has zero input and real numbers coming his way from professionals that aren't in the media.

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Are you saying the Houston Hospital Exec are wrong? Because clearly Abbott didn't listen to them, and instead shut down part of their business

If he has some special data, sure would be nice if he shared it instead of BS statements about 5K w/o details behind it.

I wish I had the same experiences that you do. I generally am seeing a lot of people being completely tone deaf to the situation, both here and in person.

Trust me, I'd LOVE to not have this view of how people are acting. I'd love to see more people being smart about things. But I've seen too many people making wearing masks some kind of political statement.

Player To Be Named Later said:

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I wish I had the same experiences that you do. I generally am seeing a lot of people being completely tone deaf to the situation, both here and in person.

Trust me, I'd LOVE to not have this view of how people are acting. I'd love to see more people being smart about things. But I've seen too many people making wearing masks some kind of political statement.

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Because the approach being taken defies logic, that's why people are calling BS

Vernada said:

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Prexys Moon said:

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So 60K people ass to nuts in a protest is OK, but some tiny bar out in West Texas isn't? Unbelievable.

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Uh - the order also bans outdoor gatherings of 100 or more so I think most of your protests are also banned under this order.

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Just sucks that one of those was actually pursued and arrested people for it. The other group? Not really.

This whole situation sucks.

Player To Be Named Later said:

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I wish I had the same experiences that you do. I generally am seeing a lot of people being completely tone deaf to the situation, both here and in person.

Trust me, I'd LOVE to not have this view of how people are acting. I'd love to see more people being smart about things. But I've seen too many people making wearing masks some kind of political statement.

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I think a big reason people don't want to wear masks is because of a loss of faith in our "experts". They've been wrong so many times and initially said masks did nothing. Now they're saying they do.

I wear a mask when out and about, I sanitize my hands often, I keep my distance. But not because some expert said so.

How about keeping with the relatively non invasive steps we were already doing? Basically everyone who gets this is relatively unaffected

And to be fair, I see people here quoting specific authorities only when it suits their political leaning or personal views.

One week one person is vilifying the CDC or WHO and the next week they are quoting a statement from them as the gospel truth. It's all just mind numbing and in general, all of society has been really stupid about this. From the govt to the every day Joe.

Cognitive dissonance is at an all time high haha. Like you said, every little thing that can be turned into a fight over politics is done so

Eh...I don't know about all of society. I'd point to the deaths per 1M population in TX and compare it to states like NY and NJ(places currently doing victory laps and getting away with it for some reason) and say that there are significant portions of our local government and most importantly our medical professionals who are doing a pretty good job.

Player To Be Named Later said:

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I wish I had the same experiences that you do. I generally am seeing a lot of people being completely tone deaf to the situation, both here and in person.

Trust me, I'd LOVE to not have this view of how people are acting. I'd love to see more people being smart about things. But I've seen too many people making wearing masks some kind of political statement.

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We see what we want to see. Maybe that's why I see such a positive response in the real world, because I thought people would act so foolishly. But generally people are acting well and responsibly.

Case in point: the family with 8 cases in Carrollton. They basically did everything above board and still wound up with two family members in the hospital. Sure mistakes were made but **** happens and hopefully we all learn and move on. Instead we have policies that are anti-knowledge and anti-progress.

OlSarge92 said:

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Player To Be Named Later said:

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Yeah, this is ALL just because of the media.

Abbott just sat down, spent 30 minutes watching FOX, 30 minutes watching CNN, and 30 minutes reading Internet media and made his decision.

I'm sure he has zero input and real numbers coming his way from professionals that aren't in the media.

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Are you saying the Houston Hospital Exec are wrong? Because clearly Abbott didn't listen to them, and instead shut down part of their business

If he has some special data, sure would be nice if he shared it instead of BS statements about 5K w/o details behind it.

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Perhaps he data and details isn't all that positive and he's trying to just institute these measures without going into the data that he has access to. It's possible the data that drove him to making these decisions just sucks and he's trying not to panic folks even further.

There's likely way more that goes in to this than most of us consider. Pretty positive Abbott and Lt Dan don't want to tank businesses any more than they absolutely have to.

If any of that is true, its why no one trusts anything the government says. This goes all the way back to Fauci, he's flip flopped over and over Data is tainted, presented in misleading manners.

The current hospitalization numbers are tainted and being used to create fear.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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How about keeping with the relatively non invasive steps we were already doing? Basically everyone who gets this is relatively unaffected

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I'm assuming you ignored the TMC charts posted earlier in this thread? "what we're already doing" obviously isn't working.

It might have if more people were responsible, but they're not. So here we are...

I get it. I'm no real fan of trusting whatever the govt says..... at all. Just pointing out there are possible other angles at play here.

I do get all sides to this. And a large part of me feels if people want to go out and blow this thing up, then carry on. But they shouldn't be surprised when the results of that are what we're starting to see. People felt like there was zero chance Abbott would back track the openings no matter what happened. I'll admit I'm somewhat shocked that he actually is.

I just hope that after we get this spike in cases under control that people will be a little more responsible next time.

The hospital executives did not contradict Abbott when they said there was capacity. In Houston, "normal ICU capacity" has been met at 100%. They have excess "sustainable surge capacity" that can be used now. However, at the current growth of hospitalizations in Houston, that sustainable surge capacity will be exceeded in 12 days according to the TMC. Therefore, they are making action to try to avoid that scenario. Hospital executives are trying to project confidence in the medical systems and to not scare people away, but they are also the ones who signed the letter warning people that this is getting worse and that they should take precautions.

You are ignoring every single bit of evidence that does not align with your pre-conceived beliefs.