BBP Renovation Survey

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TXAggie2011
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1:00p, 10/10/17
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And the new renovation can be a win-win if they make the 3rd base berm into the premium section and connect it to the luxury area below the stands. Despite what TexasAggie2011 says, those would be very good seats and would attract a premium demand w proper amenities.


I think they'll have some sort of premium demand, as I said, but I do think everyone pushes for and stadiums all around try to get their suites and clubs in good viewing spots because "a 50 yard line suite" is still preferred to an "endzone suite."
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TXAggie2011
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In reply to dermdoc • 1:06p, 10/10/17
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dermdoc said:
So if I buy Astro season and playoff tickets and there is a waiting list for tickets, am I being greedy if I sit on them and do not sell them? Why are you or anyone else somehow entitled to the use of my tickets?

Greedy would be if I bought extra tickets due to my status and scalped them.

And "perception"? Really? Why do you think no club seat tickets are offered on this forum?


I did not say people are entitled to your tickets.

Nor am I meaning to say it's greed to buy a ticket and use it.

And I don't know what the connection is between my comments and why club tickets aren't sold here. You'll have to help me out there.
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dermdoc
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In reply to TXAggie2011 • 1:23p, 10/10/17
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TXAggie2011 said:
Greed is desiring and attaining something beyond your needs, especially when you don't intend to really put to its proper use...and it's even more so "greed" when that something is a particularly rare product.

Purchasing something legally doesn't mean you're not greedy; it just means you're not a thief.

People are free to do what they want with things they own, within limits, but it doesn't make them free of outside perception the same way people are free to speak but are not excused from outside perception.

Anyways, some folks may not like the way someone frames or explains the issue, but surely we all agree it's better seats are actually be filled with butts rather than empty.



And Dermdoc, you played the "he started it" card earlier to me; let's tone down the moralistics.
Your first three statements are pretty accusatory to me. And a projection. And not the case in real life. But whatever.
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TXAggie2011
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1:29p, 10/10/17
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There is greed all over the place in real life but that doesn't change the definition of greed.

And I'm being accusing of general baseball ticket holder who doesn't really use their tickets in a very positive way but that doesn't mean I think other people are entitled to those tickets.

That was you connecting those two concepts, not me.
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Hop
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In reply to dermdoc • 1:35p, 10/10/17
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dermdoc said:
Agree with all that. And bad communication is probably the cause of most problems. To me though that is totally different thing than the griping about how club seat ticket holders use their seats.


Yeah, I've never understood the griping over that. If I have a gripe on how tickets are used, it's that we sponsor Flash Seats and that vehicle makes it very easy for opposing fans to get seats in the middle of season ticket sections. I wish we had an official ticket platform designed to allow Aggies to sell excess tickets to other Aggies...and not re general public.
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dermdoc
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In reply to TXAggie2011 • 1:37p, 10/10/17
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TXAggie2011 said:
There is greed all over the place in real life but that doesn't change the definition of greed.

And I'm being accusing of general baseball ticket holder who doesn't really use their tickets in a very positive way but that doesn't mean I think other people are entitled to those tickets.

That was you connecting those two concepts, not me.
You got me as I was guilty of projection. Forgive me but it usually gets posted at least once a year on here about how other people should be able to use season ticket holder's and especially club seat holder's tickets just "because": I apologize if you were not thinking that way.
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Aggieangler93
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In reply to dermdoc • 1:41p, 10/10/17
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I can see how you took it that way, Derm, as it does come up 3 or 4 times a year.....I made that leap also....
Class of '93 - proud Dad of a '22 grad and a '26 student!
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twk
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In reply to TXAggie2011 • 1:42p, 10/10/17
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TXAggie2011 said:
Quote:
And the new renovation can be a win-win if they make the 3rd base berm into the premium section and connect it to the luxury area below the stands. Despite what TexasAggie2011 says, those would be very good seats and would attract a premium demand w proper amenities.


I think they'll have some sort of premium demand, as I said, but I do think everyone pushes for and stadiums all around try to get their suites and clubs in good viewing spots because "a 50 yard line suite" is still preferred to an "endzone suite."
I'm not sure that the view is the biggest selling point of the Diamond Club, or was. Back before they extended the netting, I really enjoyed the fact that my seats behind the first base dugout had an unobstructed view of (most of) the field, and wouldn't have been interested in Diamond Club seats simply because they were behind the net, and I suspect that there were some folks who bought club seats who might not have been enamored of the net, but took them anyway because that's where the club is. Now, there are folks who want in the club, partly because that's where their friends are, but simply have no shot at getting in unless the club is expanded.

I think there will be pretty strong interest in the outfield club membership not tied to a seat from current reserved seat ticket holders--it seems that a lot of Diamond Club members spend a considerable part of the game in the Club, so I can't see walking down to the LF corner to get a drink (with a view of the field) being off putting. Maybe a few existing reserved seat ticket holders will opt for seats out there (as opposed to membership not tied to a seat), but my guess is it will be a small number. But, that's just a guess; hence the survey. It will be good for them to have some real feedback upon which to base decisions.

I really just have a hard time seeing a Diamond Club expansion being worth the pain of a complete stadium reseating, which is what they suggest will happen in the survey. To go through the reseating process in order to squeeze in 150-200 more club seats behind home plate seems suicidal to me, particularly since there is no really good way to do it. With football, we had the advantage of having a totally new seating configuration to parcel out using a priority point system which had been in place for a decade. With baseball, we don't have either of those factors in play. Let say you get 100 lower reserved seat ticket holder to take outfield club seats (wildly optimistic, IMO). If you end up having a few lower reserved folks relocated to the club, you're still going to have to reseat the entire park in order to account for 50 current season ticket holders being displaced. That would be crazy. So, I would assume that they will do something else to try to minimize the movement, like, perhaps, raising ticket prices everywhere (requiring a per seat donation would be one way) in order to have enough attrition to make it work. If you run off 100 lower reserved season ticket holders, then you might get away with minimal disruption from a club expansion.
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TXAggie2011
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2:21p, 10/10/17
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I should clarify that when I said "clubs", I was thinking also of additional seats, not just a closed area that sells alcohol.

Also, I'm not meaning to predict either way an expansion or not of the Diamond Club in the infield and the subsequent pushing out of current ticket holders in the infield area.

Originally, I was just responding to a comment that suites and club seating areas (and the "clubs" themselves) aren't located in prime spots in stadiums and arenas. They are.

The applicable point is that in order to maximize demand and revenue for the club and any specially categorized seats, your desire is to put them around the infield. Putting them in less desirable areas may not defeat the purpose, you'll still be able to sell tickets and access, but it'll be a sacrifice of some interest and revenue.
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Hop
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In reply to TXAggie2011 • 2:32p, 10/10/17
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TXAggie2011 said:
Quote:
And the new renovation can be a win-win if they make the 3rd base berm into the premium section and connect it to the luxury area below the stands. Despite what TexasAggie2011 says, those would be very good seats and would attract a premium demand w proper amenities.


I think they'll have some sort of premium demand, as I said, but I do think everyone pushes for and stadiums all around try to get their suites and clubs in good viewing spots because "a 50 yard line suite" is still preferred to an "endzone suite."
And my point is that the third base berm is a lot closer to the 50 yard line than the end zone. That's a good angle to watch a game.
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Hop
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In reply to TXAggie2011 • 2:40p, 10/10/17
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TXAggie2011 said:

Originally, I was just responding to a comment that suites and club seating areas (and the "clubs" themselves) aren't located in prime spots in stadiums and arenas. They are.

That comment was not made. I said premium seating/clubs/suites isn't JUST located in prime viewing areas. They are spread all across most venues...both in prime viewing areas and non-prime viewing areas. I'm pretty confident that premium demand for Aggie baseball is a lot more about the amenities and less about location....and with that said, my suggested seat location is still pretty good.
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TXAggie2011
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In reply to Hop • 2:48p, 10/10/17
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Hop said:
TXAggie2011 said:
Quote:
And the new renovation can be a win-win if they make the 3rd base berm into the premium section and connect it to the luxury area below the stands. Despite what TexasAggie2011 says, those would be very good seats and would attract a premium demand w proper amenities.


I think they'll have some sort of premium demand, as I said, but I do think everyone pushes for and stadiums all around try to get their suites and clubs in good viewing spots because "a 50 yard line suite" is still preferred to an "endzone suite."
And my point is that the third base berm is a lot closer to the 50 yard line than the end zone. That's a good angle to watch a game.


Sure, but I'm just using an obvious example of the concept.

You step past the infield at many college venues and prices immediately drop a non-trivial amount the same way you walk past the infield in Houston and Arlington and prices for seats with access to the same club immediately drop, as well.
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Hop
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In reply to twk • 2:48p, 10/10/17
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twk said:
TXAggie2011 said:
Quote:
And the new renovation can be a win-win if they make the 3rd base berm into the premium section and connect it to the luxury area below the stands. Despite what TexasAggie2011 says, those would be very good seats and would attract a premium demand w proper amenities.


I think they'll have some sort of premium demand, as I said, but I do think everyone pushes for and stadiums all around try to get their suites and clubs in good viewing spots because "a 50 yard line suite" is still preferred to an "endzone suite."
I'm not sure that the view is the biggest selling point of the Diamond Club, or was. Back before they extended the netting, I really enjoyed the fact that my seats behind the first base dugout had an unobstructed view of (most of) the field, and wouldn't have been interested in Diamond Club seats simply because they were behind the net, and I suspect that there were some folks who bought club seats who might not have been enamored of the net, but took them anyway because that's where the club is. Now, there are folks who want in the club, partly because that's where their friends are, but simply have no shot at getting in unless the club is expanded.

I think there will be pretty strong interest in the outfield club membership not tied to a seat from current reserved seat ticket holders--it seems that a lot of Diamond Club members spend a considerable part of the game in the Club, so I can't see walking down to the LF corner to get a drink (with a view of the field) being off putting. Maybe a few existing reserved seat ticket holders will opt for seats out there (as opposed to membership not tied to a seat), but my guess is it will be a small number. But, that's just a guess; hence the survey. It will be good for them to have some real feedback upon which to base decisions.

I really just have a hard time seeing a Diamond Club expansion being worth the pain of a complete stadium reseating, which is what they suggest will happen in the survey. To go through the reseating process in order to squeeze in 150-200 more club seats behind home plate seems suicidal to me, particularly since there is no really good way to do it. With football, we had the advantage of having a totally new seating configuration to parcel out using a priority point system which had been in place for a decade. With baseball, we don't have either of those factors in play. Let say you get 100 lower reserved seat ticket holder to take outfield club seats (wildly optimistic, IMO). If you end up having a few lower reserved folks relocated to the club, you're still going to have to reseat the entire park in order to account for 50 current season ticket holders being displaced. That would be crazy. So, I would assume that they will do something else to try to minimize the movement, like, perhaps, raising ticket prices everywhere (requiring a per seat donation would be one way) in order to have enough attrition to make it work. If you run off 100 lower reserved season ticket holders, then you might get away with minimal disruption from a club expansion.

I agree with many of your points. The apprehensive thing here is dealing with another possible reseat after we just had a reseat in the lower section 5 years ago. It's not healthy to keep doing this to your season ticket holder base because one big incentive of renewing the same tickets year-after-year is wanting to stay with the same people around you that you've built friendships with over the past 25 years. That's a big factor for some people. If you keep re-shuffling the deck, the university will lose that valuable factor in long-term renewals.
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TXAggie2011
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In reply to Hop • 2:50p, 10/10/17
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Hop said:
TXAggie2011 said:

Originally, I was just responding to a comment that suites and club seating areas (and the "clubs" themselves) aren't located in prime spots in stadiums and arenas. They are.

That comment was not made. I said premium seating/clubs/suites isn't JUST located in prime viewing areas. They are spread all across most venues...both in prime viewing areas and non-prime viewing areas. I'm pretty confident that premium demand for Aggie baseball is a lot more about the amenities and less about location....and with that said, my suggested seat location is still pretty good.


Okay. Then re-insert my original language to clarify. The large majority of suites are not located at the top of arenas or in the end zones and in fact in many places you won't find any suites at all at the very top of the arena or in the end zones.
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Hop
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In reply to TXAggie2011 • 2:57p, 10/10/17
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TXAggie2011 said:
Hop said:
TXAggie2011 said:
Quote:
And the new renovation can be a win-win if they make the 3rd base berm into the premium section and connect it to the luxury area below the stands. Despite what TexasAggie2011 says, those would be very good seats and would attract a premium demand w proper amenities.


I think they'll have some sort of premium demand, as I said, but I do think everyone pushes for and stadiums all around try to get their suites and clubs in good viewing spots because "a 50 yard line suite" is still preferred to an "endzone suite."
And my point is that the third base berm is a lot closer to the 50 yard line than the end zone. That's a good angle to watch a game.


Sure, but I'm just using an obvious example of the concept.

You step past the infield at many college venues and prices immediately drop a non-trivial amount the same way you walk past the infield in Houston and Arlington and prices for seats with access to the same club immediately drop, as well.

For the first game of the ALDS last week at MMP, I sat in the last section (205) of the second deck near the foul pole...kinda in front and to the side of the pole. It is a club level with a full bar at the top of our section with an area to stand or sit on a barstool. There was also security to get into that section...semi-private. It wasn't a private suite obviously, but something similar to what the club is at Olsen Field with a premium common area with hard liquor/mixed drinks and premium food items. The tickets were $175 and the viewing angle was astounding. I was expecting a below average view, but with the way they angled the section and how it pops out, it felt like I was hovering over the action with great views of everything except right below me in the left field corner.

I'd rather sit there again than in 50-60% of the field box level.
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Hop
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In reply to TXAggie2011 • 3:01p, 10/10/17
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TXAggie2011 said:
Hop said:
TXAggie2011 said:

Originally, I was just responding to a comment that suites and club seating areas (and the "clubs" themselves) aren't located in prime spots in stadiums and arenas. They are.

That comment was not made. I said premium seating/clubs/suites isn't JUST located in prime viewing areas. They are spread all across most venues...both in prime viewing areas and non-prime viewing areas. I'm pretty confident that premium demand for Aggie baseball is a lot more about the amenities and less about location....and with that said, my suggested seat location is still pretty good.


Okay. Then re-insert my original language to clarify. The large majority of suites are not located at the top of arenas or in the end zones and in fact in many places you won't find any suites at all at the very top of the arena or in the end zones.

Are we talking actual suites or premium club areas...which is what we're talking about at Olsen Field. As I just posted, club level seating is all over the stadium from foul pole to foul pole in a much larger venue. In a 4500 seat venue, just about every seat has a prime view that could justify a club w/ premium amenities.
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TXAggie2011
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3:06p, 10/10/17
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I'm not saying they don't have fine views, I'm saying there is less demand and less revenue to be had.

For example, right now on Stubhub I see that tickets in that Section 205 are going for $100+ less than tickets on the same club level are going for in and near the infield for their upcoming playoff game.
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spanky
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3:08p, 10/10/17
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I think they should add a 3rd and 4th net for folks to look through and kick derm out
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TXAggie2011
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3:10p, 10/10/17
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And Minute Maid has at least two more club levels/areas that don't extend past the infield.
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Tex100
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In reply to dermdoc • 3:17p, 10/10/17
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dermdoc said:
And how is somebody being "greedy" if they have legally bought and paid for something? Do you let strangers drive your car?

For the record, I wish every Aggie who could not make a game would give away or sell their tickets. As I have stated, because of the attitude on here, I would never give away my tickets on here. And of course, you don't look at it as entitlement, that would mean you are in the wrong.
Isn't entitlement defined by you thinking someone else should share their legally bought product because you feel entitled to it? Much more applicable than "greedy".
Have a good day!
Change it to selfish. There are a lot of games and you can easily miss one or two. But if you are going to buy them and let them sit empty a good portion of the time when there are others practically begging for the change to buy season tickets, I view it as pretty selfish.
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aggiepaintrain
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3:43p, 10/10/17
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Somebody drank a whole bottle of crazy at lunch....
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dermdoc
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In reply to Tex100 • 3:51p, 10/10/17
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Tex100 said:
dermdoc said:
And how is somebody being "greedy" if they have legally bought and paid for something? Do you let strangers drive your car?

For the record, I wish every Aggie who could not make a game would give away or sell their tickets. As I have stated, because of the attitude on here, I would never give away my tickets on here. And of course, you don't look at it as entitlement, that would mean you are in the wrong.
Isn't entitlement defined by you thinking someone else should share their legally bought product because you feel entitled to it? Much more applicable than "greedy".
Have a good day!
Change it to selfish. There are a lot of games and you can easily miss one or two. But if you are going to buy them and let them sit empty a good portion of the time when there are others practically begging for the change to buy season tickets, I view it as pretty selfish.
I do not think that the word "selfish" or "greedy" enters the ticket holders minds. And all the ones I know are some of the most generous, unselfish people in the world.
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dermdoc
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In reply to spanky • 3:52p, 10/10/17
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spanky said:
I think they should add a 3rd and 4th net for folks to look through and kick derm out
I agree. And I will give my tickets away. Just not to anyone on here except maybe Hop.
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Aggieangler93
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In reply to Tex100 • 4:07p, 10/10/17
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IMHO the system forces you to do this year to year, in order to keep your seat for next year, when you may be able to make all the games. What you do with a ticket you own, is no one's business but yours, as long as it is nothing illegal. The university could care less, as they already banked that payment.

Also, not sure if you have noticed or not, but many season ticket holders buy the packages (in all sports at all levels) based on if they can make enough games to make it worthwhile. I would doubt anyone anywhere ever makes every game. I am sure there are exceptions to this, as some folks are so rich, or so dedicated that life isn't allowed to portrude.

For the record, I'm not a season ticket holder currently....I would like to be one soon. I just don't get the need to call folks selfish, etc..., because you don't think they meet your arbitrary number of games attendance estimate....What's up with that?

Class of '93 - proud Dad of a '22 grad and a '26 student!
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twk
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In reply to dermdoc • 4:11p, 10/10/17
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dermdoc
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In reply to twk • 4:52p, 10/10/17
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I am not even Manchurian.
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In reply to Aggieangler93 • 5:01p, 10/10/17
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Aggieangler93 said:
IMHO the system forces you to do this year to year, in order to keep your seat for next year, when you may be able to make all the games. What you do with a ticket you own, is no one's business but yours, as long as it is nothing illegal. The university could care less, as they already banked that payment.

Also, not sure if you have noticed or not, but many season ticket holders buy the packages (in all sports at all levels) based on if they can make enough games to make it worthwhile. I would doubt anyone anywhere ever makes every game. I am sure there are exceptions to this, as some folks are so rich, or so dedicated that life isn't allowed to portrude.

For the record, I'm not a season ticket holder currently....I would like to be one soon. I just don't get the need to call folks selfish, etc..., because you don't think they meet your arbitrary number of games attendance estimate....What's up with that?

Agree. I do not remember anybody telling me I had to satisfy an attendance quota when I bought my season tickets. Did anyone else remember that?

And which entitled person decides the number of games I have to go to? And what is the "punishment"? Blue bell jail? So frickin ridiculous. Glad my kids are not like that.
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Hop
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In reply to TXAggie2011 • 5:11p, 10/10/17
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TXAggie2011 said:
And Minute Maid has at least two more club levels/areas that don't extend past the infield.


And they have several clubs behind the centerfield wall with one being in dead center at the very top of the stadium....arguably the single worst spot in the stadium for viewing. Clubs and suites are everywhere in a venue.
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dermdoc
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In reply to Hop • 5:15p, 10/10/17
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Yessir. And does the Zone Club and suites ring a bell?
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TXAggie2011
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In reply to Hop • 6:03p, 10/10/17
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Hop said:
TXAggie2011 said:
And Minute Maid has at least two more club levels/areas that don't extend past the infield.


And they have several clubs behind the centerfield wall with one being in dead center at the very top of the stadium....arguably the single worst spot in the stadium for viewing. Clubs and suites are everywhere in a venue.
I never said they weren't.

The bulk of club seating, amenities, and revenue is still tied to the areas near and around the infield at Minute Maid.

The Budweiser, Torchy's, et. al. stuff is pretty cool, but is mostly, effectively, general admission concessions and the Lexus Field Suite is very neat but that's a corporate/group outing product, same as the Champions Pavillion (corporate spaces at a major city downtown ballpark make some good sense.)
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TXAggie2011
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6:24p, 10/10/17
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Look, all I'm saying you look the build your premium products in premium areas of the stadium. There is consistently more demand for that and more revenue to be had. Obviously space limits you.

I shouldn't have kept letting this get so into the weeds but that's all I'm saying and I don't think it should be a controversial observation.

Of course if they choose to expand the premium infield space, I hope they do it in the least disruptive way.
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BQ_90
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10:53a, 10/11/17
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Quote:
I know TMF needs the extra money
Let's see the budget, I don't believe they do. I think they just want to brag to their sip counter parts about taking in more revenue.

Here is what I'd like to see outta the TMF, customer service to people other than those that have their name on buildings.

but I doubt that'll happen.
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twk
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In reply to BQ_90 • 11:17a, 10/11/17
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BQ_90 said:
Quote:
I know TMF needs the extra money
Let's see the budget, I don't believe they do. I think they just want to brag to their sip counter parts about taking in more revenue.

Here is what I'd like to see outta the TMF, customer service to people other than those that have their name on buildings.

but I doubt that'll happen.
I don't think this project is about money--baseball doesn't make money now, although it might with some additional revenue (if you don't count the construction costs). I think this is mostly about recognizing the fact that we've got more demand for tickets than we have seats, and trying to do something about it. The ONLY part of this plan that I don't like is the Diamond Club expansion (and I could be persuaded on that if the facts showed that it wouldn't be as disruptive as it seems), and I guess one could quibble with the lack of additional bleacher seating for GA, but all in all, this plan appears focused on answering some needs that fans have been talking about for a while.
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11:54a, 10/11/17
AG
whoa, this thread has taken off in the last couple of days.
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In reply to twk • 11:54a, 10/11/17
AG
well we really don't know if it's about money until we see the final plan. if part of the process is jacking up ticket prices or reseating based off priority points then in a way it is about money. Or at least it's throwing a bone to those giving in other sports cough football.

I agree with you, baseball isn't going to be a huge money maker. So why not just go ahead and cater to the fans on this. The average fan is getting ****ed in all the other venues. Throw'em a bone.
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