There should at least be a three game series with Texas every year. The one game is better than nothing, but a yearly weekend series is something that I would think both fan bases would get fired up about. Different conferences now or not, the rivalry will always be there and one midweek game a season isn't enough.
Why don't we have any weekend series with regional rivals?
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Last: 7 yr ago by TXAggie2011
Of the four teams mentioned in the OP, only one was a BDF team.zagman said:
We are already playing the sips in Austin and the classless clowns, tcu and baylor in the Minute Maid Classic. What more do you dumpster fire lovers want?
I really do not see a regular weekend series between the Ags and the sips happening. IMO what might develop is a three game midweek series like Florida/FSU plays with a game at each team's park and the third at a neutral site. We have some really nice minor league facilities in Texas (Dr Pepper Ballpark in Frisco, Whataburger Field in Corpus, Constellation Field in Sugar Land, Dell Diamond in Round Rock), I think it would be good for college baseball through out the state to rotate a this game at these parks.
There are several reasons why we don't play weekend series against in-state teams, most of which have been covered above, but one that I didn't see was RPI. No matter how good the local teams might be, if we play more games against in-state teams, we're likely to end up depressing our RPI just because of the fact that when teams play the same opponents, the tendency is toward .500 records. We used to be saddled with this when we were in the Big XII because the Big XII schools played so many common non-conference opponents--going to the SEC really gave us an RPI boost simply by getting a more diverse cross section of opponents. That's why the schools on the west coast struggle to get a high RPI--the teams on their schedule tend to be on the schedule for their conference opponents, and everyone just beats each other up.
From an RPI standpoint, it's hard to say whether we'll be better off playing against t.u. or Bowling Green--BG didn't look very good this weekend, but if they go out and win a bunch of games against lesser competition, those wins count just as much for RPI purposes as wins that the sips would get. RPI is just a mathematical formula based on winning percentages (adjusted by where you play). The ideal RPI opponent is a team that you can sweep, but that's going to win a bunch of games after they get us off the schedule.
So, while the fans might enjoy a 3 game set against the sips, the Froggies, or the owls, it would probably be a bit of a negative from an RPI standpoint, to replace a series against a school from another part of the country with a series against a local team.
From an RPI standpoint, it's hard to say whether we'll be better off playing against t.u. or Bowling Green--BG didn't look very good this weekend, but if they go out and win a bunch of games against lesser competition, those wins count just as much for RPI purposes as wins that the sips would get. RPI is just a mathematical formula based on winning percentages (adjusted by where you play). The ideal RPI opponent is a team that you can sweep, but that's going to win a bunch of games after they get us off the schedule.
So, while the fans might enjoy a 3 game set against the sips, the Froggies, or the owls, it would probably be a bit of a negative from an RPI standpoint, to replace a series against a school from another part of the country with a series against a local team.
Aggies2009 said:Hate that they get the RPI boost when they beat us in said situation. Throw their best guy when we play them in one-off games.TMartin said:
~A&M usually plays state rivals mid week and always draws the other team's ace while A&M pitches somebody not counted on for the weekend conference games. Rice is notorious for pitching their best guy against A&M for RPI because they play in such a weak conference and can afford to do this.
Heck, even tu trotted out their best pitcher when we played them this past season. At least Barash ended him first thing out of the gate.
Do some of you actually start to believe what you say even though it's completely false??
Rice started Bryan high product Willy Amador against A&M last year.. He was far from their " best guy"
Texas started Morgan cooper who was coming off Tommy John and missed the entire 2015 season. He threw 3 straight Tuesday games including the Ags and didn't make any weekend appearances untill conference play . That was their plan with him all along and they didn't change anything because they were facing us.
UH - none of their weekend guys threw against us last year
Even Sam houston state didn't throw a weekend guy against us
I know many on here believe that all the other texas schools throw their ace against the Ags while we throw our midweek guys buy it's simply not the case.
DWren said:Duck Patrol said:Aggie said:Duck Patrol said:
I would think it's because we don't need them.
I really wish the " we don't need them" argument would disappear forever. Dumbest thing I have ever heard.
Nobody really " needs" anyone.
Actually, your argument is completely false.
Actually, you're wrong
Stand back guys... The debate club has taken over this thread.
As stated above...HoustonAg2106 said:Duck Patrol said:Aggie said:Duck Patrol said:
I would think it's because we don't need them.
I really wish the " we don't need them" argument would disappear forever. Dumbest thing I have ever heard.
Nobody really " needs" anyone.
Actually, your argument is completely false.
How is it false?
The Big 12 only has 9 teams that play baseball and several of them are pretty lowly.
Rice is in a "mid major" and needs an RPI boost.
It makes sense for those teams to play a weekend series strategically. In the SEC you will have all you can handle.
I know Houston Baptist threw one of their weekend guys against us last year.Aggie said:Aggies2009 said:Hate that they get the RPI boost when they beat us in said situation. Throw their best guy when we play them in one-off games.TMartin said:
~A&M usually plays state rivals mid week and always draws the other team's ace while A&M pitches somebody not counted on for the weekend conference games. Rice is notorious for pitching their best guy against A&M for RPI because they play in such a weak conference and can afford to do this.
Heck, even tu trotted out their best pitcher when we played them this past season. At least Barash ended him first thing out of the gate.
Do some of you actually start to believe what you say even though it's completely false??
Rice started Bryan high product Willy Amador against A&M last year.. He was far from their " best guy"
Texas started Morgan cooper who was coming off Tommy John and missed the entire 2015 season. He threw 3 straight Tuesday games including the Ags and didn't make any weekend appearances untill conference play . That was their plan with him all along and they didn't change anything because they were facing us.
UH - none of their weekend guys threw against us last year
Even Sam houston state didn't throw a weekend guy against us
I know many on here believe that all the other texas schools throw their ace against the Ags while we throw our midweek guys buy it's simply not the case.
Bowling Green hasn't finished with a winning record sinxe 2010 and better than 7 games under .500 just once since 2010.
With half of RPI being opponent's winning %, we're instantly on the back foot in regards to RPI.
Add that about 70% of the MAC finishes under .500 each season...opponent's opponent's record is another 25%...
....and they're not good for the RPI even though it's a likely 3 wins for the other 25%.
For all the shat we give the Big 12, the fact is a third or more of that league every year is winning 40+ games and the worst regional teams aren't putting out records much, if at all, worse than say, Bowling Green's good seasons.
The same goes for Rice. At their worst, they're still challenging for 40 wins and their conference is just as capable as any other mid-major to have good win totals.
Rice played 3 teams in conference last year that won 39 or more games.
With half of RPI being opponent's winning %, we're instantly on the back foot in regards to RPI.
Add that about 70% of the MAC finishes under .500 each season...opponent's opponent's record is another 25%...
....and they're not good for the RPI even though it's a likely 3 wins for the other 25%.
For all the shat we give the Big 12, the fact is a third or more of that league every year is winning 40+ games and the worst regional teams aren't putting out records much, if at all, worse than say, Bowling Green's good seasons.
The same goes for Rice. At their worst, they're still challenging for 40 wins and their conference is just as capable as any other mid-major to have good win totals.
Rice played 3 teams in conference last year that won 39 or more games.
That's all fine and dandy, but you've missed the point: the more "incestuous" our schedule is (for lack of a better term), the less our RPI is going to be, period. If we're playing weekend series against t.u., Rice, or TCU, rather than teams from a different part of the country, on average, that's not going to be a recipe for RPI success. There can be exceptions (Bowling Green probably is a poor choice), but, over the long haul, the math plays out. I don't think it's an accident that we schedule the way that we do.
Playing Rice, t.u., or UH midweek, as opposed to Prairie View, is a plus from an RPI standpoint.
Playing those same teams on the weekend, as opposed to schools from other parts of the country? Not so much.
Playing Rice, t.u., or UH midweek, as opposed to Prairie View, is a plus from an RPI standpoint.
Playing those same teams on the weekend, as opposed to schools from other parts of the country? Not so much.
Parity dooms the west coast more than scheduling. It's a bunch of clubs with lackluster facilities and mediocre attendance and scattered around the same metro areas, and kids have to move 1000 miles to find any other kind of reputable programs.
The bad schools are usually a little better, and the good schools usually a little worse, than anywhere else in the country.
That the PAC-12 can be won by a team from Utah with an overall losing record sums that up pretty well.
The bad schools are usually a little better, and the good schools usually a little worse, than anywhere else in the country.
That the PAC-12 can be won by a team from Utah with an overall losing record sums that up pretty well.
True last year, not true most seasons.TXAggie2011 said:
Parity dooms the west coast more than scheduling. It's a bunch of clubs with lackluster facilities and mediocre attendance and scattered around the same metro areas, and kids have to move 1000 miles to find any other kind of reputable programs.
The bad schools are usually a little better, and the good schools usually a little worse, than anywhere else in the country.
That the PAC-12 can be won by a team from Utah with an overall losing record sums that up pretty well.
Playing the normally better, certainly usually better in their conference teams, is not going to cause incest issues.
Playing a local team that can give you 40 wins for your SOS and play a decent to good schedules themselves will be a win for our RPI just as much as a 40 win team from somewhere else. Or a 35 win team. Or whatever.
There is incest in Florida, too, but those schools have incredible SOS every year. There isn't the same parity as the west coast and the better schools make an effort to get each other on the schedule which means not only does Florida get Miami in their 50%, they get Miami again in the other 25%.
Playing a local team that can give you 40 wins for your SOS and play a decent to good schedules themselves will be a win for our RPI just as much as a 40 win team from somewhere else. Or a 35 win team. Or whatever.
There is incest in Florida, too, but those schools have incredible SOS every year. There isn't the same parity as the west coast and the better schools make an effort to get each other on the schedule which means not only does Florida get Miami in their 50%, they get Miami again in the other 25%.
If you think that Florida and the west coast have anything like similar situations, that's not correct. Florida schools have lots of scheduling options--west coast schools don't.TXAggie2011 said:
Playing the normally better, certainly usually better in their conference teams, is not going to cause incest issues.
Playing a local team that can give you 40 wins for your SOS and play a decent to good schedules themselves will be a win for our RPI just as much as a 40 win team from somewhere else. Or a 35 win team. Or whatever.
There is incest in Florida, too, but those schools have incredible SOS every year. There isn't the same parity as the west coast and the better schools make an effort to get each other on the schedule which means not only does Florida get Miami in their 50%, they get Miami again in the other 25%.
The problem with playing a 40 win local team is that a lot of those 40 wins are going to be losses for your common opponents. Wins against a common opponent don't help your RPI--they just make everything gravitate toward .500.
jkag89 said:True last year, not true most seasons.TXAggie2011 said:
Parity dooms the west coast more than scheduling. It's a bunch of clubs with lackluster facilities and mediocre attendance and scattered around the same metro areas, and kids have to move 1000 miles to find any other kind of reputable programs.
The bad schools are usually a little better, and the good schools usually a little worse, than anywhere else in the country.
That the PAC-12 can be won by a team from Utah with an overall losing record sums that up pretty well.
Parity is true most seasons on the west coast.
When you don't see it, it's often the non-SoCal teams coming down and rolling over the California teams.
UCLA and folks sometimes have some nice seasons, but it's generally tough sledding out there in what's arguably the most competitive recruiting grounds in the country in just about any sport.
May I ask why we want to play the sips or Baylor? The sips tried to trash us when we left the Big 12 and Baylor sued us and is a national embarrassment due to their scandals.
I am just trying to see the upside here. I assume some of you just selfishly want the pre conference games to be more compelling for you. Which is fine, but I fail to see any other upside. And I see a ton of downside.
I am just trying to see the upside here. I assume some of you just selfishly want the pre conference games to be more compelling for you. Which is fine, but I fail to see any other upside. And I see a ton of downside.
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I'm with you
Agree. This is a better criticism of the Big West than the P12.jkag89 said:True last year, not true most seasons.TXAggie2011 said:
Parity dooms the west coast more than scheduling. It's a bunch of clubs with lackluster facilities and mediocre attendance and scattered around the same metro areas, and kids have to move 1000 miles to find any other kind of reputable programs.
The bad schools are usually a little better, and the good schools usually a little worse, than anywhere else in the country.
That the PAC-12 can be won by a team from Utah with an overall losing record sums that up pretty well.
And I selfishly love the home and home with California schools because we make the trip. Malibu beats the hell out of Waco or Houston.
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The point was obviously not just the Pac-12, but the "west coast" in general and within that, mostly focused on California.The Shank Ag said:Agree. This is a better criticism of the Big West than the P12.jkag89 said:True last year, not true most seasons.TXAggie2011 said:
Parity dooms the west coast more than scheduling. It's a bunch of clubs with lackluster facilities and mediocre attendance and scattered around the same metro areas, and kids have to move 1000 miles to find any other kind of reputable programs.
The bad schools are usually a little better, and the good schools usually a little worse, than anywhere else in the country.
That the PAC-12 can be won by a team from Utah with an overall losing record sums that up pretty well.
Utah pulling off the Pac-12 is just the example of the relative vulnerability of the "top" teams compared to what you see in most regions.
No idea why you'd like this, over Wacodermdoc said:
And I selfishly love the home and home with California schools because we make the trip. Malibu beats the hell out of Waco or Houston.
Between the UC and CSU systems, its not exactly a baren wasteland out on the west coast. There's something like 30 Division 1 baseball programs in California alone coming out of 4 different reputable baseball conferences and whoever is in the WAC nowadays out there. There is only about 20 in Florida and Georgia combined. In fact, I'm not sure Florida, Georgia, and Alabama have as many D-1 teams as California.Quote:
If you think that Florida and the west coast have anything like similar situations, that's not correct. Florida schools have lots of scheduling options--west coast schools don't.
But the point is really the overlap in schedules in Florida.
FSU, Florida, and Miami have huge non-conference overlap. In part due to their playing Florida and Florida playing them.
Who said the team shouldn't schedule California teams or make some road trips to California?
So you are saying do not play any cupcakes? If so, I disagree. And I think if you play a weekend series with the sips, Baylor, or whomever, no coach is going to schedule a home and home with a respectable West Coast team. And we play tech, tcu, and Baylor at the Minute Maid classic and tu in a midweek game. Plus I know the players and coaches like the West Coast trips and it can't hurt recruiting, correct?
Tell me the upside of playing a weekend series against any of the teams you mentioned.
Tell me the upside of playing a weekend series against any of the teams you mentioned.
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IMO, the West Coast has done rather well on the National Stage
2016: Arizona & Cal-Santa Barbara were CWS participants
2015: UCLA #1 National Seed, Fullerton CWS participant
2014: Cal Poly regional host, Oregon St. #1 National Seed, Cal-Irvine CWS participant
2013: UCLA regional host, Oregon, Oregon St. & Fullerton National Seeds, UCLA & Oregon St. CWS participants, UCLA National Champs
2012: Arizona regional host, UCLA & Oregon National Seeds, Arizona & UCLA CWS participants, Arizona National Champs
2011: UCLA, Arizona St. & Oregon St. regional host, Berkeley CWS participant
2010: Fullerton regional host, Arizona St. #1 National Seed, UCLA National Seed, ASU & UCLA CWS participants, UCLA CWS runner up
2009: Fullerton, Arizona St. & Cal-Irvine National Seeds, Fullerton & Arizona St. CWS participants
2008: Long Beach St. & Stanford regional host, Fullerton & Arizona St. National Seeds, Stanford & Fresno St. CWS participants, Fresno St. National Champs
2007: Long Beach St. regional host, San Diego National Seed, Cal-Irvine, Arizona St., Fullerton & Oregon St. CWS participants. Oregon St. National Champs
2016: Arizona & Cal-Santa Barbara were CWS participants
2015: UCLA #1 National Seed, Fullerton CWS participant
2014: Cal Poly regional host, Oregon St. #1 National Seed, Cal-Irvine CWS participant
2013: UCLA regional host, Oregon, Oregon St. & Fullerton National Seeds, UCLA & Oregon St. CWS participants, UCLA National Champs
2012: Arizona regional host, UCLA & Oregon National Seeds, Arizona & UCLA CWS participants, Arizona National Champs
2011: UCLA, Arizona St. & Oregon St. regional host, Berkeley CWS participant
2010: Fullerton regional host, Arizona St. #1 National Seed, UCLA National Seed, ASU & UCLA CWS participants, UCLA CWS runner up
2009: Fullerton, Arizona St. & Cal-Irvine National Seeds, Fullerton & Arizona St. CWS participants
2008: Long Beach St. & Stanford regional host, Fullerton & Arizona St. National Seeds, Stanford & Fresno St. CWS participants, Fresno St. National Champs
2007: Long Beach St. regional host, San Diego National Seed, Cal-Irvine, Arizona St., Fullerton & Oregon St. CWS participants. Oregon St. National Champs
I don't remember making the claim that SHSU, UH, or Rice threw their best against us last year. I only mentioned that tu threw their weekend guy against us. If he was already getting a bullpen session in that day (likely), it makes sense. We did the same with Stilson against Fullerton in 2011. If you're talking about the guy I quoted, respond to him. Rice HAS done it in the past, even if they didn't last year.Aggie said:Aggies2009 said:Hate that they get the RPI boost when they beat us in said situation. Throw their best guy when we play them in one-off games.TMartin said:
~A&M usually plays state rivals mid week and always draws the other team's ace while A&M pitches somebody not counted on for the weekend conference games. Rice is notorious for pitching their best guy against A&M for RPI because they play in such a weak conference and can afford to do this.
Heck, even tu trotted out their best pitcher when we played them this past season. At least Barash ended him first thing out of the gate.
Do some of you actually start to believe what you say even though it's completely false??
Rice started Bryan high product Willy Amador against A&M last year.. He was far from their " best guy"
Texas started Morgan cooper who was coming off Tommy John and missed the entire 2015 season. He threw 3 straight Tuesday games including the Ags and didn't make any weekend appearances untill conference play . That was their plan with him all along and they didn't change anything because they were facing us.
UH - none of their weekend guys threw against us last year
Even Sam houston state didn't throw a weekend guy against us
I know many on here believe that all the other texas schools throw their ace against the Ags while we throw our midweek guys buy it's simply not the case.
Aggies2009 said:I don't remember making the claim that SHSU, UH, or Rice threw their best against us last year. I only mentioned that tu threw their weekend guy against us. If he was already getting a bullpen session in that day (likely), it makes sense. We did the same with Stilson against Fullerton in 2011. If you're talking about the guy I quoted, respond to him. Rice HAS done it in the past, even if they didn't last year.Aggie said:Aggies2009 said:Hate that they get the RPI boost when they beat us in said situation. Throw their best guy when we play them in one-off games.TMartin said:
~A&M usually plays state rivals mid week and always draws the other team's ace while A&M pitches somebody not counted on for the weekend conference games. Rice is notorious for pitching their best guy against A&M for RPI because they play in such a weak conference and can afford to do this.
Heck, even tu trotted out their best pitcher when we played them this past season. At least Barash ended him first thing out of the gate.
Do some of you actually start to believe what you say even though it's completely false??
Rice started Bryan high product Willy Amador against A&M last year.. He was far from their " best guy"
Texas started Morgan cooper who was coming off Tommy John and missed the entire 2015 season. He threw 3 straight Tuesday games including the Ags and didn't make any weekend appearances untill conference play . That was their plan with him all along and they didn't change anything because they were facing us.
UH - none of their weekend guys threw against us last year
Even Sam houston state didn't throw a weekend guy against us
I know many on here believe that all the other texas schools throw their ace against the Ags while we throw our midweek guys buy it's simply not the case.
Im sure everyone has done it from time to time.
In a game against Rice when MJ was here.. Casey Fossum our Friday night starter came in and closed a Tuesday game vs Rice after we came back from a 9-0 deficit and we won 10-9
If you think I'm saying the west coast doesn't have good teams, then I used poor wording because I'm not meaning to say they don't produce teams that can go on post season runs.
I'm saying there is pretty significant parity. The context being the assertion they struggle RPI wise because they all schedule each other. Well, I'm saying I think the issue is if they push towards .500, I see it as a parity issue.
I'm saying there is pretty significant parity. The context being the assertion they struggle RPI wise because they all schedule each other. Well, I'm saying I think the issue is if they push towards .500, I see it as a parity issue.
Now maybe in a year we do not play in the Minute Maid Classic it is feasible to do two quality home and home series. I would personally prefer an ACC opponent in addition to a West Coast school. Or may be a Notre Dame or Big 10 name school. I think playing the old big 12 schools has only one plus and that is for the selfish interest of fans. And the downside could be tremendous, especially in recruiting, Midweek games are fine but road trips to Houston, Waco, Austin, DFW area, or Lubbock? No thanks.
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dermdoc said:
May I ask why we want to play the sips or Baylor? The sips tried to trash us when we left the Big 12 and Baylor sued us and is a national embarrassment due to their scandals.
I am just trying to see the upside here. I assume some of you just selfishly want the pre conference games to be more compelling for you. Which is fine, but I fail to see any other upside. And I see a ton of downside.
What is the downside to playing texas or Baylor?
Besides a possible loss
And playing a school like an Ivy League or Bowling Green gives us more home games for the season ticket holders. And I am sure the players and the families like it.
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I think it gives them more credibility with Texas recruits even if we win. What is the upside? Why do you want to play them? Do you have a favorite "spot" in Waco?DWren said:dermdoc said:
May I ask why we want to play the sips or Baylor? The sips tried to trash us when we left the Big 12 and Baylor sued us and is a national embarrassment due to their scandals.
I am just trying to see the upside here. I assume some of you just selfishly want the pre conference games to be more compelling for you. Which is fine, but I fail to see any other upside. And I see a ton of downside.
What is the downside to playing texas or Baylor?
Besides a possible loss
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As I said, the Friday guy is probably throwing a bullpen session that day anyway... Might as well use him to close out a game if it's a tight one and needs the door slammed.Quote:
Im sure everyone has done it from time to time.
In a game against Rice when MJ was here.. Casey Fossum our Friday night starter came in and closed a Tuesday game vs Rice after we came back from a 9-0 deficit and we won 10-9
There is more than sometimes nice seasons listed and it includes a number different of teams. I agree there is quite a bit of parity but IMO that means there are a large number of good teams.Quote:
UCLA and folks sometimes have some nice seasons. . .
And to the OP, we have played DBU numerous times at Olsen including weekend series. The problem is now with their new stadium and NCAA cred, they would want a home and home which does nothing for us.
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