Yeah, and who knows, maybe that won't even be a big deal to players in high school these days? That's a generational question that there's no way I have any ability to answer.

AustinAg2012 said:

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Serious question: How many above average players would play for a female coach at the college level? Not that CSU's a juggernaut, but I hope she's hired to find out.

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I would say absolutely zero. Unless that school is their best option. I.e., if they're only being recruited by CSU and, say, Saskatchewan Community College, they'll probably pick CSU. Maybe.

Memphis should just give Rick Pitino a call if they are desperate and don't care about NCAA violations or having a shady character represent them.

_lefraud_ said:

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Richierich2323 said:

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Can Pastner coach? No, someone that was an X's and O's guy but was willing to do what was necessary to keep recruits.

Have you followed why Tubby lost all his top rated players? If not google is your friend. Time to educate yourself on how he demoted a coach brought in by pastner and lost his players.

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Yes, I'm aware that Tubby didn't want to be in a vulnerable position by having multiple players dad as an assistant coach. We've seen first hand at A&M how much of a disaster that can be. So kudos to Tubby for not wanting to put himself and that program in that situation.

He probably wasn't the guy for the job, as Memphis has shown they'll take shady coach after shady coach for ANY success. Tubby isn't and will never be that guy.

But Tubby is a hall of fame coach that has taken Tulsa, Georgia, Kentucky, Minnesota and Texas Tech all to the dance within his first 3 years. So yea, I'm going to side with Tubby in that I think he knows how to run a program. Unfortunately, Memphis wasn't the place for him.

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You can side with Tubby all you want but it was a bad hire and a bad job for him to take which was my original point. Penny will get the top recruits back on campus and will mark my words DO BETTER than Tubby AT MEMPHIS.

NoahAg said:

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AustinAg2012 said:

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Serious question: How many above average players would play for a female coach at the college level? Not that CSU's a juggernaut, but I hope she's hired to find out.

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I would say absolutely zero. Unless that school is their best option. I.e., if they're only being recruited by CSU and, say, Saskatchewan Community College, they'll probably pick CSU. Maybe.

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I am a gen xer and for my generation you're probably right, and I don't know anything about you so for all I know you are Deandre Ayton, but what are you basing this on?

Memphis can apparently at least consider a $9+ million dollar buyout but we are fretting about BK at $4 million.

Pastner was dirty. Known him and his dad forever.
Lived off dad's AAU connections until he couldn't.

Now he stinking up the joint at my grad school alma mater.

NoahAg said:

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AustinAg2012 said:

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Serious question: How many above average players would play for a female coach at the college level? Not that CSU's a juggernaut, but I hope she's hired to find out.

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I would say absolutely zero. Unless that school is their best option. I.e., if they're only being recruited by CSU and, say, Saskatchewan Community College, they'll probably pick CSU. Maybe.

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That would be my guess as well.

Penny Hardaway has legit basketball coaching experience.
1. Head Basketball Coach at East High School in Memphis. Coaches the #1 player in the 2019 class as well as #17 and #26...James Wiseman #1, DJ Jeffries #17, Chandler Lawson #26
2. Leads EYBL's Team Penny, which will quickly become Team Memphis if he gets the job at Memphis
3. Can hire Larry Brown or a number of other guys who will be able to help with the day to day
4. Has a connection to the NBA which is magic in recruiting and should help them a few impact transfers
5. Brings fans back to the seats as the Memphis program only averaging 6,000ish fans per game is a crime

Just because you are a college coach does not mean you are ready to be a head coach.
Just because you are a high school coach does not mean you can't be a college coach.
Just because you are a AAU coach does not mean you don't know X's and O's.

Penny Hardaway was a high basketball IQ guy when he played. With the right staff in place, he'd be a hit and although I'm sure he'd having growing pains...having 3 of the top 30 players in the country would help.

Just a note, there is also word that Mike Bibby, a high school coach in Arizona, is on the short list for a few D1 head jobs as well...

This is nothing like Clyde Drexler.

There are several reasons it could work, but it's still risky to hire a guy that's never been a coach of any kind at the college level (or NBA.)

Plus, Larry Brown got SMU banned from the postseason two years ago. It's not like some crap that happened in the 80's or something.

But I just don't like the trend of schools hiring head coaches with no experience because they have ties to recruits. One of the problems in college basketball right now anyway is lack of talent development and horrible fundamental basketball, this trend doesn't exactly inspire confidence that that's going to change.

You can bash Tubby Smith all you want but he's winning more than Pastner did. Smith did an excellent job reviving a really bad Tech team and his move to Memphis seemed odd at the time.

Memphis has done mostly nothing since Calipari left.

And this would be a horrible hire. Probably Drexler 2.0

SilverTongueDevil said:

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You can bash Tubby Smith all you want but he's winning more than Pastner did.

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Facts are not your friend...my friend.

bobinator said:

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There are several reasons it could work, but it's still risky to hire a guy that's never been a coach of any kind at the college level (or NBA.)

Plus, Larry Brown got SMU banned from the postseason two years ago. It's not like some crap that happened in the 80's or something.

But I just don't like the trend of schools hiring head coaches with no experience because they have ties to recruits. One of the problems in college basketball right now anyway is lack of talent development and horrible fundamental basketball, this trend doesn't exactly inspire confidence that that's going to change.

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Fred Hoiberg...
Steve Kerr...

Why is it risky to hire a guy who has been in basketball his whole life but just hasn't coached a college or pro game? NBA All Star. College All-American. Successful HS coach. Successful AAU Coach (i.e., successful recruiter).

Larry Brown's interest in working with Penny or Penny's interest in having Larry Brown on his staff doesn't change the fact that Penny is a good fit. Larry also happens to be one of the best basketball minds in the world.

Having ties to recruits is the way recruiting works. You wouldn't have liked Michael and Jontay Porter's dad at A&M in order to have them as Aggies?...

What makes you think Hardaway is shady?

No Tubby isn't winning more than Pastner. I'm sick of sticking up for Pastner. But some of this is just stupid. Pastner was in the NCAA tourney 4/7 years and post season 5/7. Tubby is about to go 0/2 on the tourney. How's that winning more?

Quote:

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Having ties to recruits is the way recruiting works. You wouldn't have liked Michael and Jontay Porter's dad at A&M in order to have them as Aggies?...

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Not as the head coach.

Quote:

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Why is it risky to hire a guy who has been in basketball his whole life but just hasn't coached a college or pro game? NBA All Star. College All-American. Successful HS coach. Successful AAU Coach (i.e., successful recruiter).

Larry Brown's interest in working with Penny or Penny's interest in having Larry Brown on his staff doesn't change the fact that Penny is a good fit. Larry also happens to be one of the best basketball minds in the world.

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I don't understand how you don't think it's risky to hire a guy to run a program that's never run a program. I know he can bring in some veteran guys as assistants, and maybe that will work, but he's still the head coach and the fact that he's never done it before makes it pretty risky.

Now, again, just because it's risky isn't to say it's a bad idea. It sure seems like a good risk for Memphis.

And I know Larry Brown is a good basketball mind, but he just got a program put on probation and banned from the postseason in 2016.

But anyway, it is risky, I don't even think that's debatable. Avery Johnson was risky, he also had no experience in the college game. Worth the risk? Sure, but still a risk.

Part of Pastner undoing was hiring Lawson. Yea, he brought all his sons and several other players, but it gave that family WAY to much power. How do the other assistants feel, or the other players. It just puts everyone, but especially the program, in a vulnerable position.

But again, Memphis has always won with either shady coaches and/or needed super talented players. So not a surprise they would try this move.

wacarnolds said:

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LawHall88 said:

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Legit hire or Clyde Drexler, Part 2?

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Clyde seemed like a weird fit for college basketball in multiple respects, don't think Penny would suffer from that. Seems to be the rage lately, hiring high profile alumni to coach your school Chris Mullin, Patrick Ewing, now potentially Penny. Not sure if such a high profile job is the right way to get into coaching but it would be cool to see him succeed.

A cool story from Penny's wiki

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In 2011, Hardaway took over for his friend Desmond Merriweather as a coach for his middle school alma mater, Lester Middle School, while Merriweather was undergoing treatment for colon cancer. With a goal to have each of his players graduate from college, Hardaway instituted a mandatory tutorial program. He coached the Lester Lions to the West Tennessee State title 58-57, finishing 28-3 for the season.

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Speaking of Mullin, I assumed he was a goner until, fresh off an 11 game losing streak, he beats Duke and Villanova back to back. Really amazing, when you think about it. Pact with the Devil stuff.

Pastner had no choice. He had to have the Lawson's. They have a major say over Memphis hoops. You miss on this. Pastner couldn't recruit Memphis. It's why Tubby can't.

Sure, there is a risk.
Frank Martin when they hired him at Kansas State to replace Bob Huggins?
Fred Hoiberg...no coaching experience.
I can go on if you need me to.

But yes. You're correct. There is a risk by hiring Penny Hardaway.

Yeah Mullin pulled the equivalent of Billy Kennedy's 2014 offseason right in the middle of conference play. They might have had the best Feb/Mar of any team in the country.

Tubby Smith should get strong review from Memphis, agent says

Quote:

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"If you're going to grade him at the end of the season or grade this team at the end of the season," Lefft said, "he's exceeded expectations, so he should get an A."

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at least one writer thinks penny hardaway at memphis is good for A&M.

Quote:

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If Penny Hardaway begins to succeed with the Tigers, he will start taking more and more players from Kentucky. He could also take players away from Bruce Pearl and the Auburn Tigers, Cuonzo Martin and the Missouri Tigers, Ben Howland and the Mississippi State Bulldogs, and Avery Johnson and the Alabama Crimson Tide.
In case you're wondering, yes, I'm naming coaches in the SEC who compete with the Vols. Any given year, at least two of those coaches could lose a top recruit to the Tigers.
As a result, there are major beneficiaries from Penny Hardaway going to Memphis. Tennessee is one of them. Two others are the Texas A&M Aggies under Billy Kennedy and the South Carolina Gamecocks under Frank Martin.
Both of those coaches rely on solid players who aren't five-stars to succeed with their programs. They won't have near the recruiting battles that the other schools have.

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https://allfortennessee.com/2018/03/21/penny-hardaway-memphis-vols/

Larry Brown has put three schools on NCAA probation, should work well.

Penny just landed the #1 recruit in the nation (conveniently a Memphis high schooler who played for a certain AAU coach now coaching a college team in Memphis)

not sure anyone saw that coming

Uncle Gunnysack said:

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at least one writer thinks penny hardaway at memphis is good for A&M.

Quote:

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If Penny Hardaway begins to succeed with the Tigers, he will start taking more and more players from Kentucky. He could also take players away from Bruce Pearl and the Auburn Tigers, Cuonzo Martin and the Missouri Tigers, Ben Howland and the Mississippi State Bulldogs, and Avery Johnson and the Alabama Crimson Tide.
In case you're wondering, yes, I'm naming coaches in the SEC who compete with the Vols. Any given year, at least two of those coaches could lose a top recruit to the Tigers.
As a result, there are major beneficiaries from Penny Hardaway going to Memphis. Tennessee is one of them. Two others are the Texas A&M Aggies under Billy Kennedy and the South Carolina Gamecocks under Frank Martin.
Both of those coaches rely on solid players who aren't five-stars to succeed with their programs. They won't have near the recruiting battles that the other schools have.

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https://allfortennessee.com/2018/03/21/penny-hardaway-memphis-vols/

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everything is falling in line

Regarding Calipari, Penny became the first coach to flip a player from John Calipari's Kentucky Wildcats this fall when Memphis landed verbal commit DJ Jeffries.


Not bad for "Clyde Drexler 2.0"

First time a first ever coach has landed a number one overall recruit in first year.

Double Diamond said:

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First time a first ever coach has landed a number one overall recruit in first year.

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Considering it's probably the first time a school has hired the AAU coach of the #1 overall recruit, I don't think this really means much. But props to Memphis for seeing a plan and executing. Landing the #1 guy, no matter the connection, is a big deal. I think it will be more impressive if Penny puts together a successful season or lands some top 25 type kids that aren't some convenient.

bobinator said:

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I wouldn't like handing my program over to someone with no experience, and bringing Larry Brown on seems like a recruiting violation waiting to happen, but whatever, it's Memphis, go nuts.

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Cal almost got away with it...well, no he did by moving.

But, yeah the over/under with LB and an NCAA violation might be 2+/-.

So this happened:

He got his feelings hurt because Barnes said his players were flopping.

GrayMatter said:

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He got his feelings hurt because Barnes said his players were flopping.

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Which they were.

Those are embarrassing... Lil Penny needs to give Anfernee a pep talk.