Probably doesn't matter. Illinois residents get a discount at Wichita State as well. http://msep.mhec.org/institution/wichita-state-university

And if Peyton had decent grades at A&M, he probably qualifies for a bunch of money with the right person in the admissions/aid office helping him out.

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I thought about this, paying his own way when he had several scholarship opportunities at some other schools (including walking away from one at A&M) was a little bit of a head scratcher to me.

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Not if he wanted to go play for a great coach who has a history of developing players.

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3 players just transferred out of Marshall's program this off-season. There are guys who find themselves at the end of Marshall's bench and get cleared out in the spring and summer like everywhere else. He will have some Shocker teammates all getting that same coaching and development, and while I haven't tried to sit down and really study their roster after next season, I would think he will have as strong competition for playing time as he had here. That seemed a tough enough challenge as it is while also doing it without any scholarship.

I agree though with some people's thoughts that Allen's game may translate better against the average MVC opponent (and in WSU's system) than at A&M in the SEC.

And I totally agree that WSU is a better basketball program than A&M right now. I just was a bit surprised when it looked like he maybe transferred somewhere to be a walk-on (for presumably a year).

Anyways, best of luck to him. Really liked the kid. Going to miss him on twitter. Was one of the best Aggie players to follow and he really seemed to enjoy his time here, his teammates, and College Station.

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Probably doesn't matter. Illinois residents get a discount at Wichita State as well. http://msep.mhec.org/institution/wichita-state-university

And if Peyton had decent grades at A&M, he probably qualifies for a bunch of money with the right person in the admissions/aid office helping him out.

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Yes and yes. I didn't realize we were part of MSEP, but do know we pushed recently to get Oklahoma and Texas folks the same treatment here it appears, even if they are not included in MSEP. It's still above the in-state threshold, but like Aston said there are probably other ways around that too on the academic side. His major was listed as sport marketing there, so maybe seeing him soon in our sport management program.

WSU was at 13 rides so yes he is walking on.

LeFroud
Well considering PAs minutes were about to decrease,BK having to limit his time next year because he could not guard anybody, and knowing what a player R Mitchell is it is easy to connect the dots and see we have a better player. People discount defense way to much.

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LeFroud
Well considering PAs minutes were about to decrease,BK having to limit his time next year because he could not guard anybody, and knowing what a player R Mitchell is it is easy to connect the dots and see we have a better player. People discount defense way to much.

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I think you're new around here so you may not know, but Shawn Smith was gonna be this defensive stopper too...

Guys leave every year, at a higher than average rate, but no worries...we gots better players coming in so the previous were just fat and ugly anyhow

Maybe he was homesick. Peyton would rather walk on at WSu than get a free year here?

I'd rather have Allen than Mitchell

I'd rather have Mitchell than Allen. Give me the unknown possible huge upside/more risk guy, vs. the known good teammate/lower ceiling role player.

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I'd rather have Mitchell than Allen. Give me the unknown possible huge upside/more risk guy, vs. the known good teammate/lower ceiling role player.

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Next season, I would rather Allen. After that? Who knows?

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Guys leave every year, at a higher than average rate, but no worries...we gots better players coming in so the previous were just fat and ugly anyhow

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I don't know that this is even true, but I'm sure it's true of programs who are adding superior talent like ours is. Why this isn't a positive, I'm not sure. Yea, the first few years there were a lot of misses. Hence, a whole new coaching support staff whose job it is to find the correct pegs to go in the open holes. And, if that means not renewing scholarships (Allen not in this category and I'm not sure whose was if any), so be it, that's the way sports and any other profession is played.

No, not so much. Coaches are hired to win, whether it be with shiny new recruits and/or free agents. If they don't get the job done, then they need to show some kind of development with these shiny new toys, if not, then the coach (not the players) will be replaced. At a&m it's all backwards...it's the players, or the support staff, or Kennedy and his unlucky string of terrible, horrible, no good very bad days.

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I don't know that this is even true, but I'm sure it's true of programs who are adding superior talent like ours is. Why this isn't a positive, I'm not sure. Yea, the first few years there were a lot of misses. Hence, a whole new coaching support staff whose job it is to find the correct pegs to go in the open holes. And, if that means not renewing scholarships (Allen not in this category and I'm not sure whose was if any), so be it, that's the way sports and any other profession is played.

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"I don't know the facts, but I'm going to argue anyway. And it's definitely a positive if it is true, which I'm not sure if it is."

fraud ... pretty clear where you sit on kennedy but you might be interested to work a few facts into your sarcastic "argument" ... you stated our team has a higher rate of transfer than average, not true, we're about average ... aggregate d1 transfers average around 10% (just under 2 players) each year (450+ transfers last year), and higher, at around 20% (just over 3 players) in the first few years on teams with new staffs

transfers are the norm, its how the system operates now, 40%+ of d1 freshman transfer prior to the junior year, and i think it's a good thing for kids to have options

What I don't know is if we have any higher transfer rate but what I do know that it's a positive. There, that ok with you?

Not sure what data says we do not have a higher transfer rate than average?

This year, for example, in year 4 of the program (not new- all BK's guys) we had 5 of 13 guys leave. Making for a transfer rate of almost 40%. And then keep in mind 2 guys graduated (which is great, of course BK should get credit for that), but so really only 6 of 11 guys decided to stay, just this year alone. In other words, almost half decided to leave, when given a choice (or forced out).

Fitz- Minnesota
AJ Jr- Alabama
Space- Umass
Allen- WSU
Johns- ?

I'm still excited about this season and happy we have upgraded talent it appears. But call a spade a spade.

My practice is to acknowledge the player as an Aggie and hope for the best for him or her. My wife is a "former student" from Wichita State so it does perk my interest a bit more since Peyton is headed there. Marshall is a very good coach (one could try to slander him with being in the MVC, but a final four trip and repeat NCAA trips is a good indicator of coaching capability.) One would like to believe Peyton is following either a dream or a scheme. Hope he succeeds in realizing his goals, whatever they may be. It would delight me if we meet in the NCAAs. Though hopefully not with WSU as a #1 and us as a #16...

averages, like most statistics, are interesting and sometimes relevant, mostly they're used to advance an argument without considering context (do you look at a one year average, or do you use a 3 year or 4 year average, or do you look at the coaches entire tenure), or using different numbers (e.g. is the denominator 13, scholarship only or 16, current roster, or should it be 22 which would be the number if everyone stayed) ... the variables are virtually endless and mostly intended to find a "stat" which looks better for the side of the argument you're choose to take

bottomline is transferring is huge part of d1 basketball, every team experiences it every year, it's absolutely normal and in most instances it positive for both the players and the teams

a stats class i took in grad school had section of the syllabus entitled "Lying with Statistics" ... it was the most beneficial (interesting and relevant) part of the class

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What I don't know is if we have any higher transfer rate but what I do know that it's a positive. There, that ok with you?

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we do.

and it's dumb to say all the transfers are positive. Some help the team. Some hurt the team.

which ones hurt ?

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which ones hurt ?

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Jamal Jones and Jamal Branch. I think Naji and Daniel Alexander could have helped this team when we were short on bodies and running out walk-ons in crunch time.

Peyton could be a loss, too, but that is yet tbd

Jamal Branch?

i was thinking this year ...

allen is the only possibility, i think, of a subtraction from the team, i would have preferred to keep him, but you're right we'll have to see, his defense / athleticism was likely to limit his role, and the younger talent / ath might have made it increasingly tough to get minutes .. but even if his minutes / production dropped off he seemed to be a great team guy who'd make any team better whether he played or not

the jamals ... considering when they left you could definitely argue it was a negative from a total talent standpoint, but i would venture a guess that from a team standpoint, chemistry, attitude, effort, commitment, etc. (if body language can be accurately interpreted) those were long run additions by subtraction, especially in jones case ... i don't think last year's team would have been better with jones, assuming he would be taking minutes from house or allen or caruso

hibbert / alexander ... don't think you lost much, they weren't replaced by anything, but they weren't good players

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Jamal Branch?

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Yes.

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i was thinking this year ...

allen is the only possibility, i think, of a subtraction from the team, i would have preferred to keep him, but you're right we'll have to see, his defense / athleticism was likely to limit his role, and the younger talent / ath might have made it increasingly tough to get minutes .. but even if his minutes / production dropped off he seemed to be a great team guy who'd make any team better whether he played or not

the jamals ... considering when they left you could definitely argue it was a negative from a total talent standpoint, but i would venture a guess that from a team standpoint, chemistry, attitude, effort, commitment, etc. (if body language can be accurately interpreted) those were long run additions by subtraction, especially in jones case ... i don't think last year's team would have been better with jones, assuming he would be taking minutes from house or allen or caruso

hibbert / alexander ... don't think you lost much, they weren't replaced by anything, but they weren't good players

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you can knock any of those players - and your criticisms are valid - but where were you when people were defending Kennedy, saying he only had one scorer or he had to play walk-ons in conference play.

Can't have it both ways. Either the transfers didn't hurt, and Kennedy has zero excuses for being a failure. Or they did hurt, and the high number of transfers is a problem.

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i don't think last year's team would have been better with jones, assuming he would be taking minutes from house or allen or caruso

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I would have loved to have Jamal Jones on last year's team. Having that one more person that could score is probably the difference between us being in the NIT instead of the NCAA tournament last season.

and I'm sorry, but I don't buy the notion that Jamal Jones could not have helped make this team better last year. This team had one reliable wing scorer last year, and the second he went down, the team cratered.

to put this in context ... i'm not / wasn't a fan of jones, seemed like to me he had a bad attitude, and refused to play defense (which is different than a guy who isn't great defensively due to athletic reasons but tries hard)

but on the merits of him (jones) making last year's team better ... i don't believe it's clear one way or the other ... how does he handle getting fewer minutes? does he pout? does he play hard when he does get minutes? if he doesn't, do the coaches give him more or fewer minutes? could be wrong about this, but wasn't he a cyprian guy, and how would he handle not having cyprian around?

no question if he'd have had a good attitude and accepted fewer minutes and fewer shots he could have helped, i'm just not sure he would have, i tend to think he wouldn't have handled it well and it would have been a drain on the team

from a talent standpoint ... the team would have had more talent and depth with him, period. i'm not convinced the team would have been better because i think his seemingly poor attitude would have been a negative, but he's a talented offensive player who had (still doesn't, see nba summer league) no interest in playing defense

on the transfers hurting question i sent to you ... my initial question was focused on this years transfers ... i think on balance what was gained this year v. what was lost is a + ... we'll have to see

the other transfers / lost players during kennedy's tenure ... all the way back to middleton were definitely drains on talent, even hibbert and alexander (neither of who were good players) because what they picked up at best was a push, at worst was a down grade, no doubt about it those were net loses, especially middleton ... i think the jamals weren't good team guys and while you clearly lose talent without replacing it, those weren't going to be good teams anyway and whatever team / program culture is worth was probably helped to some degree in the long run by the jamals leaving sooner rather than later

as far as excuses for coaches ... my opinion is there are reasons and circumstances which lead to better or worse years for coaches, but there are no excuses for coaches, they get better or worse each year, they're rightly evaluated on wins and losses over some period of time and if ad's feel like what they're seeing isn't improving / building a better program at an acceptable rate then they get fired and someone else gets a try

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which ones hurt ?

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Jamal Jones and Jamal Branch. I think Naji and Daniel Alexander could have helped this team when we were short on bodies and running out walk-ons in crunch time.

Peyton could be a loss, too, but that is yet tbd

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Needed Jamal Jones to go to make room for House. Not exactly an even trade. And word is that he left because Cyp got fired, which was also basically an upgrade.

It didn't play out as a one for one exactly like this but I would trade Jones and Cyp for House and Stansbury every day of the week.

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Needed Jamal Jones to go to make room for House.

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Jamal didn't transfer to make room for House. That is post-hoc rationalization.

And we're not debating Jamal-vs-Danuel (or at least no one else is besides you). We're debating Jamal-vs-no Jamal.

i don't think were debating jamal v. no jamal ... i think it should be poor attitude jamal v. good attitude / team play jamal

i do think playing jamal with house is a factor, because i think jamal wanted to be the guy getting all the shots and he didn't care about much else ... having to play on a team with house (or anyone similar) and getting fewer shots as a result would have been a problem for jamal and the team would have suffered ... that's my opinion, what actually would have happened is unknowable of course

i think he transferred because he knew playing with house would mean fewer shots without cyprian to protect him

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And we're not debating Jamal-vs-Danuel (or at least no one else is besides you). We're debating Jamal-vs-no Jamal.

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Fair enough, because Jamal vs Danuel isn't even worth debating. Jones was a pretty good but not great offensive player on a really bad team. He could have helped out this past season after House got hurt, but would have been the third option behind House and Jalen for most of the year.

Regarding transfers, generally most basketball programs seem to have about 2-3 per season. However, Texas A&M's transfer rate the past 4 season has certainly been above the average.

The reasons for transfers have been widely varied, from guys who by all accounts were generally happy with the program and whom the staff actually probably wanted to keep but left for more playing time (e.g., Allen, Fitzgerald) to players who screwed up off the court and got kicked off the team (e.g., Keith Davis, Reese, Shawn Smith) to players whose dad got hired as a coach at another school (e.g., Avery Jr.) to guys who were getting significant minutes but unhappy/disgruntled with something (e.g., Branch, Jamal Jones) to players whom staff probably encouraged and helped along to make some space (e.g., Hibbert, Johns, Space, Young) .