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And we're not debating Jamal-vs-Danuel (or at least no one else is besides you). We're debating Jamal-vs-no Jamal.

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Fair enough, because Jamal vs Danuel isn't even worth debating. Jones was a pretty good but not great offensive player on a really bad team. He could have helped out this past season after House got hurt, but would have been the third option behind House and Jalen for most of the year.

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It is an interesting debate, but seems just not in the cards to have been able to have both Jamal Jones and Danuel House last season. Jamal Jones' apparently was very unhappy when Cyp was fired, to the extent that the situation became untenable to both parties. And the Stansbury hire was instrumental to making it possible to get Danuel House. So it really seemed like either a Cyp + Jones or Stans + House result was what fate had in mind there.

Totally agree with Lance that at the end of the season when House was hurt, had we had Jamal that would have been a great asset to have.

And I still would personally prefer having either Fitzgerald or Allen still on our bench right now instead of an open scholarship.

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i think he transferred because he knew playing with house would mean fewer shots without cyprian to protect him

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It's fine if you think that, but it doesn't make it any more true.

House was not mentioning A&M at the point when Jamal transferred.
House visited A&M almost 3 weeks after Jamal transferred.
House committed to A&M almost a month after Jamal transferred.
House was not even eligible to play for A&M when Jamal transferred.

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article30345627.html

Ride the bench to final 4s or catch and shoot here.

Can't say the guy doesn't have confidence in his own abilities.

He brings up a good point. Another good point is that our football school has far better players moving forward than WSU.

Marshall is a baller. So is Baker. Love Baker.

Coach is always going to side with his players.

You really think that? WSU has plenty of good players. And I'll bet they go deeper every year.

A&M wins the rivals or 24/7 or ESPN war. I'll bet Marshall wins the deeper war and the develop war. And they've got 2 top 100 guys besides Baker( who wasn't a rivals ranked player) at the 2 ahead of Allen already. Another top 100 recruit at the three.

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Not a fan of hs cooach saying something to the effect that A&M pigeon-holed Allen into a role of just being a catch and shoot guy.

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Me either. Not to mention there are NBA players making a lot of money as "catch and shoot" guys, as long as they can do other things well, like play defense.

But I hope he tears it up at Wichita State.

Really liked Allen and again wish him the best. Great young man.

But I bet he would still be at A&M right now IMO, if he had thought he was going to be say a top-7 player in the rotation getting 20+ Mpg next season. even as a 'catch and shoot' specialist. By all accounts he was planning to stay at A&M and then summer practices started with the new 2015 guys and he changed his mind to look for a 'better fit', surprising everyone with a sudden transfer decision. And nothing wrong with that and totally understandable.

wacarnolds ... i was mistaken on the timeline for house / jones coming and going, i thought jones left just after house indicated he would join

to put a nail in it ... i didn't think much of jones' complete game, no doubt he could score and if he'd been part of the team and been able to accept fewer shots, have a good attitude his production would have helped ... i just don't think he was / is that type of person, i think he would have pouted and caused problems

on marshall ... he's being politically correct in discussing allen, most of the players on every team are role players, role players are how you build winning teams ...dirk nowitzki is a spot up shooting "role player", especially now, and i'd argue has always been ... players get pidgeon holed because they're limited, not because they're bad players or they're not valued by a coache, my bet is marshall will use allen to space the floor unless and until allen develops some more quickness and better ball skills, i hope he does, i really like allen and hope he has a great career at state

Dirk wasn't a " role player" or simply a spot up shooter. That look like a " role player" who spanked Lebron James in 2011? That look like a " role player" who spun on Chris Bosh to win game two? Dirk is a top 15 NBA player all time, those aren't " role players."

yeah he really is diamond ... he can play with the ball in his hand in certain match ups, but for the most part he spaces the floor (especially now) and plays his version of iso in favorable match ups

characterizing a guy as a "role player" is of course subjective, by quoting it i was attempting to make a point ... that being, even great players (nowitzki) don't have to be guys who do everything well, they have roles they play on a team and if they're good at what they do (or great like dirk) they add trememdous value to a team

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Dirk wasn't a " role player" or simply a spot up shooter. That look like a " role player" who spanked Lebron James in 2011? That look like a " role player" who spun on Chris Bosh to win game two? Dirk is a top 15 NBA player all time, those aren't " role players."

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I'm curious to see your top 15.

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Ride the bench to final 4s or catch and shoot here.

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I remember the catch part. The shoot part is a little fuzzy, and the hit part........

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yeah he really is diamond ... he can play with the ball in his hand in certain match ups, but for the most part he spaces the floor (especially now) and plays his version of iso in favorable match ups

characterizing a guy as a "role player" is of course subjective, by quoting it i was attempting to make a point ... that being, even great players (nowitzki) don't have to be guys who do everything well, they have roles they play on a team and if they're good at what they do (or great like dirk) they add trememdous value to a team

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Good god, you think Dirk Nowitzki was a role player in his prime? Give us some more inside info, maybe 72 will pass it along to Dave South

Dirk is what 7th all time in scoring. Well up there in rebounds as well. Loads of all star games, an MVP and was the best player on the court when his team beat Lebron James. Yes this is a role player.

i think this might be a more interesting board if everyone were able to read

Dirk v.2010 =/= Dirk v.2015

No, you need to understand that Dirk isn't a " role player." " role players" aren't one of the all time greats and 7th in scoring. " role players " don't win MVP and go into the HOF.

I'd say Dirk isn't a " role player" even now.

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Ride the bench to final 4s or catch and shoot here.

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I remember the catch part. The shoot part is a little fuzzy, and the hit part........

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The catch was actually just as big of a problem

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Dirk v.2010 =/= Dirk v.2015

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When you add parenthetical qualifiers like "especially now", you are implying that the argument you are presenting held true throughout said player's career and it is simply more pronounced now. Dirk was not a role player the first 15 years of his career, and he's now just a fading star - still not the definition of a role player.

Mike you are on point like always. Thanks!

Mike ... I appreciate the clarification of what I meant ... A role player, my definition of course pending you're clarification, is a player who fills a specialty function on a team, my view is nowitzki is a spacer at this point in his career ... The original post which intended to make the point players which fill specific roles (most players on every team), add value, and that being a catch and shoot guy isn't a bad thing ... Of course I failed to account for limited reading comprehension and of certainly your astute clarification of my actual intent .. Thanks.

No a according to your view all players are " rule players." Nuts.

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Mike ... I appreciate the clarification of what I meant ... A role player, my definition of course pending you're clarification, is a player who fills a specialty function on a team, my view is nowitzki is a spacer at this point in his career ... The original post which intended to make the point players which fill specific roles (most players on every team), add value, and that being a catch and shoot guy isn't a bad thing ... Of course I failed to account for limited reading comprehension and of certainly your astute clarification of my actual intent .. Thanks.

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Your point was idiotic, I tried to add reason to it by clarifying it because it was a stupid point. Nowitzki's role was to shoot 3s, draw the 3/4/5 out, create mismatches on offense, post up every position from 2-5, defend the high post, defend the low post, defend the free throw line extended, defend the baseline, and cause over-rotation during runs. If you think playing 10 roles is being a role player, I guess you've got an argument. But, really, your oversimplification could be applied to every player ever.

Michael Jordan's role was to be the best, so he was a role player. Kobe's role was to score from every possession, so I guess he was a role player. Duncan's role was to play fundamentally sound basketball, so I guess he was a role player.

In your next post worry less about my reading comprehension and more about your terrible grammar and idiotic ideas.

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Dirk v.2010 =/= Dirk v.2015

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When you add parenthetical qualifiers like "especially now", you are implying that the argument you are presenting held true throughout said player's career and it is simply more pronounced now. Dirk was not a role player the first 15 years of his career, and he's now just a fading star - still not the definition of a role player.

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Yes. I wouldn't call him a role player either. Shouldn't have jumped it, but Ben's overinflated view of dirk just throws me for a loop.

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Dirk v.2010 =/= Dirk v.2015

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When you add parenthetical qualifiers like "especially now", you are implying that the argument you are presenting held true throughout said player's career and it is simply more pronounced now. Dirk was not a role player the first 15 years of his career, and he's now just a fading star - still not the definition of a role player.

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Yes. I wouldn't call him a role player either. Shouldn't have jumped it, but Ben's overinflated view of dirk just throws me for a loop.

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I'm not even a Dirk fan; he's too Euro ball for my interests - I don't want to see 7 footers shooting 25 foot jump shots all day. Plus I've been a Spurs fan since Robinson came off active duty (when I was little I thought being in the Navy was special)

Dirk is to euro? He created the modern stretch 4 that most teams use now. It's modern hoops. I'd agree with some if the guy was a center, guy plays the power forward. How do I over inflate? Guy is 7th all time in scoring, has a ring and an MVP. That's not top 15 all time?

I said he was too Euro for me, then I let you know the real reason why (Spurs fan). I know he's great and redefined the PF

It's not a stupid point it's an opinion ... I think he's a role player at this point in his career, that's what I think I don't really care what you think ... I said the majority of players on a team were role players, again my view, not yours, unwad your panties and learn how to read

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You really think that? WSU has plenty of good players. And I'll bet they go deeper every year.

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They have a far superior coach and two really great guards. Who is replacing Baker and vDV?