cecil77 said:

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LOL, no one uses it, yet tons of it are sold...

And it's a interesting question. Is it "authentic"? What if a winery takes their own wine and concentrates it down and then adds some of their own concentrate back in? Is that "better"?

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it is used a lot in Texas wine making (or some version of it), along with acidification. How one feels about those depends on the person.

I'd prefer to drink wine that didn't add it or add extra acid, but no one discloses it so who knows....

bularry said:

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cecil77 said:

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LOL, no one uses it, yet tons of it are sold...

And it's a interesting question. Is it "authentic"? What if a winery takes their own wine and concentrates it down and then adds some of their own concentrate back in? Is that "better"?

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it is used a lot in Texas wine making (or some version of it), along with acidification. How one feels about those depends on the person.

I'd prefer to drink wine that didn't add it or add extra acid, but no one discloses it so who knows....

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I think that was his point. Also, it's not just Texas.

Wines all over the world are manipulated. Look at an Enartis catalog. Somebody buys all that stuff. Penfolds Grange is one of the only uber famous wines that admits it.

bularry said:

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cecil77 said:

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bularry said:

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cecil77 said:

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How was it?

Interesting label "grown and estate bottled". No "produced by".

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per the interwebs, estate bottled means: "First, 100 percent of the wine has to come from grapes grown on land controlled or owned by the winery; second, the grapes have to be crushed, fermented, aged and bottled in a continuous process all in the same place"

so that seems to cover the produced by, part

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Couple things, I believe "estate" also requires winery and vineyard be located in the same AVA.

And the second part doesn't have a requirement for "who" does the crushing, etc.

They probably don't have the equipment or manufacturer's permit (or something) and use a custom crush facility.

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wouldn't the "crushed, fermented, aged and bottled all in the same place" indicate not done at a crushing facility? It seems to imply all done on the "estate" to my reading.

you don't generally age wines at a crush facility, at least based on my admittedly limited knowledge you don't

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Sure you can. The "aging" referred to is barrel aging, which can be at the crush facility.

Any recs for wineries or tour guides around Colmar?

htxag09 said:

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bularry said:

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cecil77 said:

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LOL, no one uses it, yet tons of it are sold...

And it's a interesting question. Is it "authentic"? What if a winery takes their own wine and concentrates it down and then adds some of their own concentrate back in? Is that "better"?

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it is used a lot in Texas wine making (or some version of it), along with acidification. How one feels about those depends on the person.

I'd prefer to drink wine that didn't add it or add extra acid, but no one discloses it so who knows....

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I think that was his point. Also, it's not just Texas.

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yeah, definitely not just Texas, didn't mean to imply otherwise

cecil77 said:

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Wines all over the world are manipulated. Look at an Enartis catalog. Somebody buys all that stuff. Penfolds Grange is one of the only uber famous wines that admits it.

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for sure. and other famous winemakers have acknowledged adding water and doing steps to reduce alcohol in various vintages. Again, all depends on your perspective whether this is just winemaking or if it is consumer manipulation.

and of course the big business of manipulating wines is done in the realm of those producers, generally, making 250,000 cases and more of various brands. they rely on falvor/color/texture consistency vintage over vintage.



I, personally, would be interested to know if a winemaker added citric or tartaric acid to a wine or if they added water or dosage...it may or may not impact my appreciation but I find it interesting. similar to knowing what brix the wine is picked at I find kinda interesting

To my knowledge citric acid is never used. Yes, there are trace amounts of citric acid in grapes, but generally it will alter flavor. Tartaric acid is used.

Pretty sure in the US it's illegal to add water to dealc or use RO to increase alcohol. Definitely would be illegal if after the wine is declared.

Lots of producers, particularly cheap wines, use added sugar, and rumored thats some expensive wines do.
...cough... Caymus ...cough...


Virtually all of Bdx uses MX. Twenty years ago that would have been heresy. Things change. BDX doesn't (think this is still true) allow irrigation - rainfall only. Is watering the vines "manipulation"?

It's an interesting philosophical discussion. It's common for "organic" winegrowers to imply there wine is somehow more "noble", even if it sucks. If 300 years from now Capt Picard was able to sit in front of the food replicator and intone "1961 Cheval Blanc, 62 degrees" and it produced liquid molecularly identical to the wine - is it the same?

yeah, I edited, tartaric is used in the making process but I do believe citric is added is some markets, at least I think I've read that before.


I'm not sure I'd consider any vineyard practice "wine manipulation", but it is an interesting topic to consider.


I'm not sure I've ever heard someone that farms organic think it makes them more noble, I think most believe that in the long run not using herbicides and chemical fertilizers is just long term better for the vineyard.

now "natural" wine makers, they are all about feeling noble.. LOL (with some crappy results at times)

I could see using citric acid in white wines, I was just thinking red.

2018 The Mascot was released today. Haven't tasted the '18 yet but have enjoyed prior vintages. Anybody wants some baby BOND/Harlan Estate, this is it.

How was the PJ? Their stuff is my house bubbles, love it; if you've never visited their estate/house, it's worth a stop/stay also.

aggiejumper said:

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How was the PJ? Their stuff is my house bubbles, love it; if you've never visited their estate/house, it's worth a stop/stay also.

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that's a new house to me. widely carried in Texas?

I've not seen it here, I buy direct from an importer on the East Coast.

aggiejumper said:

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How was the PJ? Their stuff is my house bubbles, love it; if you've never visited their estate/house, it's worth a stop/stay also.

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I enjoyed it. It wasn't as full as other aged champagnes I've had recently but it was certainly enjoyable. I always love an old champagne. Paired it with macadamia nut crusted mahi mahi.

Starting to collect some Burgundy. Lord help my wallet.

We recently had a pairing that involved a 2003 reisling from Austria. I've really come around to the aged reislings and found them to potentially get as complex as some big reds. Don't know enough to give recommendations, but it's a fun new wine to start in on.

That is very cool. I have not delved into Riesling with that much age yet!

We love Riesling with Thai food. We had a 2002 JJ Prum Auslese the other night at a spot near the house (BYO). I really don't know a lot about the producers but JJ Prum has never done us wrong! We also love some age on them.

If you like aged Riesling I'd recommend finding a gewurztraminer with some age on it. They can be incredibly complex.

Letting this rest and open up to pair with filets and peppercorn cream sauce and Brussels for Father's Day

A good dry reisling is perfect for summer and pairs great with SE Asian food. The problem is finding one that isn't sweet. Trisaetum from Oregon is a good domestic option and if you are in Houston, Ruhlman at French Country Wine is very good and at a good price.

Wines from Alsace or the Finger Lakes are your best bet for lucking into a drier Riesling. Finger Lakes wines don't have great distro which is unfortunate since some of them can be quite good.

FarmerJohn said:

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A good dry reisling is perfect for summer and pairs great with SE Asian food. The problem is finding one that isn't sweet. Trisaetum from Oregon is a good domestic option and if you are in Houston, Ruhlman at French Country Wine is very good and at a good price.

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with spicy Asian food, I like a bit of sweetness. I prefer my dry riesling and dry alsacian whites with sausages and cheeses, great for charcuterie sharing, etc.

some great bargains in white wines from Germany, Austria and Alsace if you find a profile you like.

752bro4 said:

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Letting this rest and open up to pair with filets and peppercorn cream sauce and Brussels for Father's Day

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Nice! Sounds like a damn fine meal! I do love properly prepared Brussels.

I've searched for years to no avail for a particularly subpar wine called Ass Kisser. I've tried the shops around Waco, and only one has heard of it, but their distributor can't get it for them. Does anyone have any suggestions in how to get it in Texas semi-legally without flying to the UK where it seems somewhat available?

I would say try wine-searcher out, but even there it looks like it's solely available (readily) in the UK.

I did see Midtown Corkdorks in Nashville show up on a quick search and apparently they have it in stock. But unless laws have changed between TN and TX (where I assume you live), you won't be able to buy direct from them.

If you have a friend in that area you could always make it worth their while to buy and ship direct to you. I imagine it's kind of a gag gift not meant to be enjoyed, so you may not even need to worry about shipping temps either.

Jaws wine, and if you've seen the movie more than once, you probably know what I'm talking about. In Turks and Caicos, and the restaurant ran out of wine glasses. The wine was cheap and the server poured the wine into drinking glasses, and it was filled to the top.

Awesome!

I'll be there in a month. Doing a Rhone river cruise from Lyon to Marseille.