quote:

---

Sorry to interrupt the Pappy thread, but can someone tell me more about this blending of Weller 12 and Weller Antique?

Weller 12 is my new favorite everyday sipper, but I have found myself wishing it had a little more oomph. I haven't tried the Antique yet. If I like the overall flavor profile of the 12, what proportions should I shoot for? Is there really a difference between mixing and drinking immediately, and letting them mingle for a while?

Thanks in advance for any help. I've honestly never even thought about blending up my own sipper, but I'm excited to give it a go.

---

Yes, the sum of both combined is the ticket.

60% OWA / 40% W12

It cuts down the sweetness of the Weller 12 and gets the proof closer to 100. In theory, the average age is closer to 10 years and is supposed to replicate the WL Weller Centennial that has been long discontinued.

Let it mingle for 2 weeks. The longer the better.

This is my "house bourbon"

I've got a handle of Weller 12 aging in one of my oak barrels right now. I'm interested to see how it turns out with about 2-3 months of small barrel aging imparted into it.

Weller 12 is not bad, but a little on the mellow side for me. Great flavor profile though - but it's just too light.

I've had really good (in my opinion anyway - tx4guns had some though I'm not sure it was his cup of tea or not) results by aging Maker's and Buffalo Trace, so I'm excited to see how this turns out. Figure I'll tap the barrel just before Christmas - that will give me a smidge over 2 months of aging, which should be about right.

quote:

---

Weller 12 is my new favorite everyday sipper, but I have found myself wishing it had a little more oomph. I haven't tried the Antique yet. If I like the overall flavor profile of the 12, what proportions should I shoot for? Is there really a difference between mixing and drinking immediately, and letting them mingle for a while?

---

I would start with a 50/50 ratio, and work from there. Most people prefer to increase the OWA, but its all about what tastes right to you. Most people are with josh at 60/40, but I like to take it up to 75% OWA. If you really want to get crazy, make 6 oz samples of everything from 75% W12 to 75% OWA. Be sure to take good notes and label everything accurately, so you can vat all of them together at the end, then adjust to your desired mix.

1-2 weeks is good for smaller samples, but I think it takes about a month for 1.75L batches to really even out. Your mileage may vary.

I would really like try aging my blend in an oak barrel, but that may be a bit down the road.

[This message has been edited by Quantum ace (edited 11/26/2013 9:15a).]

Try a 60/40 10/107 and Weller 12 for a month

And by the way, braums egg nog has hit shelves.

That mixes with a good wheater damn near bourbon holiday heaven!

Pardon my ignorance, but why is it important to rest the bourbon for a few weeks after you mix it? My understanding is that once a spirit is bottled, it no longer experiences aging or significant flavor profile changes. Is there still something going on chemically that I'm not privy to?

It doesn't age once it is bottled, but it still takes time for the flavors to mingle. I would have thought it would not take very much time for solvents to mix, but the flavors seem to even out with a few weeks.

Bourbon is also not 100% stable, it does react with oxygen. There are some that taste significantly different from a freshly opened bottle than they will in a week or two. Over several years, the flavors in an open bottle can start to degrade, especially once the bottle is nearly empty. I don't even start to think about it until I have a bottle that has been at less than a quarter full for over a year. If you want to save a sample long term, you probably want to move it to a smaller bottle. There are different schools of thought, but many people think bourbon opens up a little with 10 minutes or so of air time. Jim Rutledge of Four Roses does not agree, but who knows.

quote:

---

There are different schools of thought, but many people think bourbon opens up a little with 10 minutes or so of air time

---

I agree with this. Not really sure how to explain it chemistry-wise, the some bourbons do change after sitting out in a glass for a while. Maybe there's some evaporation going on there. Stagg Jr is a good bottle to test this out on.

^Tried it last night. Didn't work. It's still a mother****er ten minutes later.

quote:

---

some bourbons do change after sitting out in a glass for a while. Maybe there's some evaporation going on there.

---

This I get. I'm just having trouble with understanding why blending whiskeys would need time to meld (and I'm not arguing that they don't). At the very least, I'd think that some gentle stirring in the glass would accomplish the same thing. This is definitely something I plan to test.

quote:

---

^Tried it last night. Didn't work. It's still a mother****er ten minutes later.

---

Ha ha! Yes it is but it does mellow a tad. I added an ice cube to about 2 oz and let it sit at room temp for about 15 minutes. It was very nice at that point. You can play with the volume, time, and amount of ice from there to suit your taste. It takes a little time and experimenting to figure out how to deal with barrel proof stuff.

Anyone came across the Whistle Pig Boss Hog 100% Rye Single Barrel? From what I hear it comes in at 12 1/2 years,134 proof which is pretty close to this years Stagg without the level of hotness. $150 a bottle seems pretty steep.

quote:

---

This I get. I'm just having trouble with understanding why blending whiskeys would need time to meld (and I'm not arguing that they don't). At the very least, I'd think that some gentle stirring in the glass would accomplish the same thing. This is definitely something I plan to test.

---

When I do a sample blend I use about 6 oz in a 750ml bottle, and give it a fairly vigorous swirl for about 10 seconds. After 24 hours I can get a pretty good idea of how it will turn out, but it still takes days for the flavors to even out.

My wild ass guess is that it involves all of the "impurities" dissolved in the bourbon. You have all sorts of volatile compounds in there, and my understanding is that it picks up non-volatile compounds from the time it spends in a barrel. These get pulled in very slowly, at a controlled rate. Once you remove the bourbon from the barrel, nothing new is being introduced, so it stops aging as all of the components finish reacting and reach a stable state. Now you vat two different bourbons together, and each of them is being exposed to a significant amount of new "stuff". Its not really aging, but some of the components of each bourbon are reacting to components from the other.

I am sure we have some chemist types who can explain it better, but that is my general theory.

quote:

---

I agree with this. Not really sure how to explain it chemistry-wise, the some bourbons do change after sitting out in a glass for a while. Maybe there's some evaporation going on there. Stagg Jr is a good bottle to test this out on.

---

It aerates the bourbon. This concept is no different than with wine. Many wines are much better after aerating up to an hour before drinking. This is the reason you see folks swirling wine in the glass. It isn't to look cool... it has a purpose.

Also, when you smell your bourbon, open your mouth as you inhale. Makes a big difference. Yes, I'm a bourbon geek (and I suppose a wine snob).

quote:

---

Tried it last night. Didn't work. It's still a mother****er ten minutes later.

---

This provided me with a good laugh! I have been enjoying the Stagg, Jr lately. It's a pretty good bourbon... a wee bit hot, but very good.

I add a few ice chips in mine; that mellows it some. But there is no way of getting around the fact that it is over 67% ethanol.

Bought some Woodford Reserve Double Oaked today. First time I'd seen that one.

Any thoughts on it?

Woodford is, to me anyway, an OK bourbon. Not my favorite by any stretch and frankly overpriced. Heavy on the oak, with the double oak even more so.

Thanks for all the feedback on the Weller blending everyone.

I'm Going to hit up Specs after work tomorrow and try this method out as my "holiday project".

quote:

---

Bought some Woodford Reserve Double Oaked today. First time I'd seen that one.

Any thoughts on it?

---

Try and return it. Don't know one person who actually likes that bottling...

Aerating wine/beer/bourbon oxidizes it. Oxidization, or the rusting, of a spirit will round off all the flavors and that is degrading the quality.

Now swirling a beer/wine/bourbon helps bring the aroma off the spirit and to the nose. Since beer is carbonated this happens readily. Wine/spirits aren't carbonated so swirling helps release the aeromatics.

I doubt the idea of blending whiskey and letting it sit for weeks. While favors might be melding they're also oxidizing and dropping off in potency.

The Specs on Wirt had a decent stock for Thanksgiving Wednesday. I picked up their last bottles of Noah's Hill and Eagle Rare 10. Also snagged some 4 Roses Small batch and IIRC they had the Single Barrels (edit: NOT the LEs) in stock as well. Had some BT Experimental and Single Oak in the glass case as well. Im hitting up the Specs at Hill Country Galleria this afternoon but Im sure they will be cleaned out by then.

[This message has been edited by Project Gemini (edited 11/27/2013 11:40a).]

quote:

---

I doubt the idea of blending whiskey and letting it sit for weeks. While favors might be melding they're also oxidizing and dropping off in potency.

---

Yeah, whiskey really drops off in potency a couple weeks after it has been opened. You may doubt it, but you are wrong.

quote:

---

Aerating wine/beer/bourbon oxidizes it. Oxidization, or the rusting, of a spirit will round off all the flavors and that is degrading the quality.

Now swirling a beer/wine/bourbon helps bring the aroma off the spirit and to the nose. Since beer is carbonated this happens readily. Wine/spirits aren't carbonated so swirling helps release the aeromatics.

I doubt the idea of blending whiskey and letting it sit for weeks. While favors might be melding they're also oxidizing and dropping off in potency.

---

Dood, it literally takes months at near maximum surface exposure for a whiskey or bourbon to oxidize to a point where the flavors bleed off so bad you really notice.

And blending is a very, very, very, very accepted practice - so well accepted that the majority of whiskey and bourbon is actually a blended bottle. Especially when you are talking about your production bottles like Jack, Beam, Maker's, Weller, etc.

Blending does not degrade flavor by definition (it can, but that would be a factor of what qualities of bourbon are being blended more than anything)- exposure for long periods to oxygen does that. And sitting in a bottle on the shelf does not qualify as long exposure to oxygen. Even a half empty bottle will take a long, long time to get to the point where the oxidation is degrading the bourbon that bad.

My schemy

I know two winemakers; both have bottles that they will not serve unless they are aerated for at least an hour.

Guess I'm drinking degraded wine.

I can only trust my palate with bourbon. I'm not buddies with Harlan Wheatley or Bill Samuels.

The spec's downtown finally got the 3rd release of the Elijah Craig Barrel Proof. Not sure if they have anymore (I bought the last of it that was on a shelf), but it is likely that there is some at other stores/cities. This stuff is delicious if you are good with the heat.

" This stuff is delicious if you are good with the heat."

appears to me the general consensus (not mine) on texags is nothing is smooth over 80 proof.

quote:

---

This stuff is delicious if you are good with the heat.

---

It would be interesting to do a SBS with Stagg Jr. Both are a hair over 67% ABV.

If you can't enjoy a bourbon that's more than 80 proof, then you don't have any business drinking up the good bourbons that the rest of us can't get our hands on. You can come back and try again when you get your training wheels off.

Saw this and thought I'd share

http://www.dallasobserver.com/2013-11-28/news/the-battle-of-texas-whiskey-makers-and-fakers/

Spec's also has Angel's Envy cask strength. Pricey at $150, but it is unlike anything else on the market thanks to the port barrel finishing. It is a heavy favorite to be the best whiskey of 2013 and it is the last thing Lincoln Henderson worked on. Spec's got around 18 bottles and most are already gone, so act quickly if you are interested.

ka,

I need to give you my phone number so when you see stuff like that you can call me and buy me a bottle! I'm an hour from DT Specs.

$150? I could understand them putting out a cask strength bottle, but charging over double what they sell their regular bottle for is ridiculous.

Fortunately, I work downtown so I can hit up Spec's pretty frequently. Since Spec's is such a behemoth, it is difficult to get much of anything that most people are chasing after (PVW/BTAC), but I have been fortunate with stuff like OFBB, ECBP, PHC and FR125.

Regarding AECS at $150, I kind of think it is a good price. It isn't a steal like PVW15 or FR $125 at $80, but it isn't absurdly priced like Michter's either and AE is an actual distillery and not just a brand). AECS is super limited (only in 7 states and less than 4,000 bottles hit the retail market) and some of the best stuff you can find. I had a buddy trade one of his for a PVW15, so it has some decent trade value. With secondary market prices of $900 for bottles, $150 is nothing.

quote:

---

and AE is an actual distillery and not just a brand

---

True, but keep in mind the distillery just opened. In fact, I don't believe it was open when I was there in October. So, my question is, where was the current batch of AE distilled?

Imagine planning a bourbon tour in early summer for an October trip, and Elmer T. and Lincoln Henderson passing away before I could get there.