Quantam,

That's exactly why I don't buy down there very much. Not sure whether you spend that much for personal or some other use, but if you're really spending that much per year, I'd take that business to a good local store and they'd be glad to kiss your butt if you spend that much in their store every year. Hell, I've had some owners take really good care of me after I walked into their store one time, bought one bottle, and mixed in some good conversation.

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I suggested a first come, first serve basis as a way to make sure the limited quantity stuff gets to the average person who can't ever find this stuff and not just a select group of valued customers. I wasn't trying to speak as to whether or not it was a good business model for Specs.

I generally find what I'm looking for a the Mom & Pop stores any way without having to deal with the politics at Specs downtown.

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Unfortunately, the average person has no clue what's in a bottle of VW and ruins it with ice cubes and water, LOL. I am just being a bourbon snob, but it's true. Or the average person wants it to stare at it for years unopened or flip it for 4x retail. Maybe I am just bitter because only a few years back, PVW was available on the shelf at Downtown Specs for $52 and you didn't feel like you had to hoard it, just buy as you will. All the Hoopla is just making it overrated. Good luck to everyone on your search this Fall. If I can get my hands on 1 bottle at retail, I will consider it a victory....

Also, for what it's worth, I haven't popped open my 2013 FRSmB LE yet, but I have expectations of it being just as enjoyable as the current PVW 15. Your odds of finding a bottle of this FR is about 10x more likely.

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That's exactly why I don't buy down there very much. Not sure whether you spend that much for personal or some other use, but if you're really spending that much per year, I'd take that business to a good local store and they'd be glad to kiss your butt if you spend that much in their store every year. Hell, I've had some owners take really good care of me after I walked into their store one time, bought one bottle, and mixed in some good conversation.

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I don't spend near that at Specs, that was recounted by another friend of mine. I shop at local stores most of the time, and only go to Specs when they are the only option or have a significantly better price.

I have been told by a pretty credible source that PVW prices have gone up substantially this year:

20 yr - $250
23 yr - $400

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Unfortunately, the average person has no clue what's in a bottle of VW and ruins it with ice cubes and water, LOL. I am just being a bourbon snob, but it's true. Or the average person wants it to stare at it for years unopened or flip it for 4x retail. Maybe I am just bitter because only a few years back, PVW was available on the shelf at Downtown Specs for $52 and you didn't feel like you had to hoard it, just buy as you will. All the Hoopla is just making it overrated. Good luck to everyone on your search this Fall. If I can get my hands on 1 bottle at retail, I will consider it a victory....

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Does anyone know how this Pappy Van Winkle craze started? I have several bottles at home that I like just as much and they're more readily available and much cheaper. That being said, I will almost certainly buy a bottle of two this week if I can get my hands on one and I think there's a really good chance I will.

Holy crap, not to derail the PVW discussion, but one of my good Ag buddies gave my wife and I one of those Deep South 1.75L aging barrels for a wedding gift and it is pretty awesome!

I aged a 1.75L of Eagle Rare for 6 weeks, and it is pretty amazing how it changes the character of the bourbon that quickly. It adds significant flavor depth, and takes a little of the burn off. Don't get me wrong I LOVE Eagle Rare as is, but just was pretty impressed w/ the extra barrel aging version also.

Thought y'all might be interested...

http://www.deepsouthbarrels.com/

Us And Them - The Pink Floyd Experience
http://www.usandthemband.net

Any idea what the char level is?

I hadn't considered additional aging post-bottling. You could play around with adding other charred staves into the barrel to add a different finish.

Holy Crap. $250 for a bottle of 20 year old. Supply and demand economics at work. That's a big increase.

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Does anyone know how this Pappy Van Winkle craze started?

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I think it was a perfect storm type of situation. It is a high quality product that has been popular with a certain group of people for a while, so it had a solid base. It is always trendy to be a fan of something that is relatively obscure, but well liked by the "insiders". Anthony Bourdain and a few other celebrities mentioned it, which brought a whole new level of exposure. The back story of the brand is just obscure enough to make it intriguing, but easy enough to figure out that people don't lose interest. The Stitzel-Weller angle adds an extra layer of interest, and exclusivity. There is a limited amount of bourbon left, and more people started to recognize how good it was as that stock dwindled. Demand goes up on a widespread level, and among the core group of consumers, which makes it harder to find. Now it really means something if you have one of these special bottles. It is still relatively affordable at a retail level, which means anyone can afford it if they can find it. I cannot think of any other brand with this level of exclusivity and respect, that is so cheap.

Cliff notes:
Quality product, core group of loyal fans, well respected by insiders, celebrity endorsers, limited supply, low price.

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Any idea what the char level is?

I hadn't considered additional aging post-bottling. You could play around with adding other charred staves into the barrel to add a different finish.

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From the FAQ on their site, it looks like a medium char is what they do. I'm toying with the idea of taking one of those bendable lighters and doing some extra charring, but at the same time I'm pretty happy w/ the current results.

That's a good idea about mixing the staves, I'll give that a whirl!

Us And Them - The Pink Floyd Experience
http://www.usandthemband.net

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The Stitzel-Weller angle adds an extra layer of interest, and exclusivity. There is a limited amount of bourbon left, and more people started to recognize how good it was as that stock dwindled

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Care to expound?

Stitzel-Weller was a distillery that produced wheated bourbon until it shut down in the early 90s. The bourbon they distilled is amazing, but the amount of it around has been decreasing since the distillery closed. There are legends about a day when bourbon wasn't popular, and you could find dusty bottles anywhere.

I'm a little hazy on the exact details, but I believe it was owned by the Van Winkles until the 70's, then by various other people/companies. Stitzel-Weller is where they distilled, Weller, Old Fitzgerald, Rebel Yell, etc.

When it closed, the stock of bourbon was sold to various people who have been periodically bottling it for the last 20 years or so. Most of the Pappy Van Winkle was from this stock, until they started switching over to stock from Buffalo Trace, which was already distilling the Weller line.

[This message has been edited by Quantum ace (edited 11/5/2013 2:47p).]

So is Pappy today from this old stuff or new stuff?

Are you being serious, DryFly?

Well sort of. I can surmise that the Pappy being released today that is 15-23 years old could be from barrels produced at the old distillery, but barrels being filled today at Buffalo Trace for a Pappy release 15-23 years from now wouldn't be. I guess that's what I was asking. Hey, I'm no expert/historian here on the process; I just like to drink the stuff.

I believe the last couple 15 yrs have been all BT, and this is the last year the 20 yr will be Stitzel-Weller. There is probably some Bernheim stock in there somewhere, but its not released publicly.

Because the age statement is the youngest bourbon in the batch, you can still add bourbon that is as old as you want. If they wanted to, they could have used increasingly older stock for the PVW 15 as long as they wanted to, or a mixture from multiple distilleries from multiple ages. In theory, they could still be using a small amount of SW juice for years to come.

So its not really a stupid question to ask where each came from, because nobody really knows. Its just usually safe to assume they went with the cheapest/youngest bourbon they could, while keeping the flavor steady.

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Does anyone know how this Pappy Van Winkle craze started? I have several bottles at home that I like just as much and they're more readily available and much cheaper.

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What on earth do you like as much as Pappy?

Ok, maybe like "as much" took it a little too far, but there are some bottles that I really like that I don't have to work to find, Makers 46 and Elmer T. Lee being two of them.

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I have been told by a pretty credible source that PVW prices have gone up substantially this year:

20 yr - $250
23 yr - $400

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You source is mistaken. The retail prices should be the same as last year or increased by a max of 5%. That came from the horses mouth.

Josh,

You may very well be correct. We shall see later this week!

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Stitzel-Weller was a distillery that produced wheated bourbon until it shut down in the early 90s. The bourbon they distilled is amazing, but the amount of it around has been decreasing since the distillery closed. There are legends about a day when bourbon wasn't popular, and you could find dusty bottles anywhere.

I'm a little hazy on the exact details, but I believe it was owned by the Van Winkles until the 70's, then by various other people/companies. Stitzel-Weller is where they distilled, Weller, Old Fitzgerald, Rebel Yell, etc.

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My understanding is that Heaven Hill now owns the old S-W rick houses.

^^^^ I do not believe Heaven Hill owns the S-W rick houses. Diageo bought them in 1992 and it is now where Bulleit bourbon (which is actually distilled by contract at Four Roses) is aged in the old rick houses. If I am wrong, I am sure someone here will correct me.

suggested Retail Prices of Pappy should be around:

ORVW10/107 - $39
Lot B - $49
Rye 13 - $69
PVW 15 - $79
PVW 20 - $119
PVW 23 - $249

If you'd like to hear the PVW history straight from the horse's mouth, Alton Brown did an interview with Julian Van Winkle on his podcast. For some, it won't be any new information, but it is still worth listening to it.

Fwiw. Julian likes drinking the 20 with a twist of orange.

For some additional background...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0967420806/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0967420806&linkCode=as2&tag=bourbuzz-20

And for the ultimate johnny come lately bourbon drinker..

http://www.pappyco.com/categories/shop-pappy.html

I'm about to order some of the "Pappy Hour" cups.

If you were faced with the decision to choose only a single bottle of the 2013 BTAC due to a single bottle limit through the line policy, which would you recommend from the group?

Picked up ER17 and IDGAF about the rest. I'd love to try the PVW some time, but ER10 is my favorite so I am excited about having the 17.

George T. Stagg.

Is there any chance if getting stagg in Houston?

Stagg. Although, I anticipate enjoying the Sazerac 18.

I'm really unclear about the distribution of the BTAC. Are all the Sazerac products distributed at the same time (i.e. Pappy and BTAC)?

Stagg has been distributed in Houston...at least at Specs stores. I found two bottles at Specs in Sugar Land. I also saw two bottles of Thomas H Handy at a Specs in Jersey Village today.

From what I gather, the BTAC stuff that hit Houston was given to Specs first and distributed through out the city at various Specs locations. My understanding in talking to a few stores that I buy from, is that they mom and pop stores are getting their Pappy and BTAC very soon.