Well I bought one of each and my buddy bought the rest. If I see anymore, I will let you guys know where. I am just looking for the saz at this point.

God, I hope bourbon doesn't turn into craft beer where you have to drive/hunt/camp/hoard.

It already has...at least for the limited release stuff.

Insane... this stuff hasn't hit Austin yet as far as I can determine.

The difficulty with limited release stuff like PVW or the BTAC is that you have to plan 15-20 years or more in advance to ramp up final output. And if what you make 15 years ago doesn't taste right you have trouble. Not to mention its a lot of money and space tied up for that long.

The Stagg Jr release this year is interesting. Is that Stagg that they can tell now won't make the final cut or did they plan that 7-10 years ago? I have heard both reasons given.

On another note, I can offer a quick tasting note on the THH. I had some neat last night. The nose is lots of vanilla and caramel. The taste has some nice light spiciness. For 64.2% ABV it is not hot at all. Its a real nice sipper. I predict it will make a killer manhattan.

I appreciate the tasting notes. Until I get my hands on some BTAC, I'll keep on keeping on with Noah's Mill (I'm a big Willett fan).

I'm quite sure that BT didn't plan on the demand they have today. I'm also quite sure that Willett isn't planning on the immediate demand that they have (they are producing only 20 barrels daily today).

Double edged sword... invest today for what is demanded tomorrow? By way of example, Woodford Reserve is currently planning a $34M expansion. Is that based on today's inflated bourbon demand? Yes, I think the current demand is inflated and will self correct. Who knows? I asked this very question of Woodford folks last week when I was there. The folks I talked to could respond adequately (above their pay grade!).

So, essentially, I agree. Tough to plan with a bloated bourbon demand currently. BTW, there is no shortage of PVW in the restaurant/bar sector in KY. I sampled much of it for a very reasonable pour price.

What do you consider reasonable Austin?

Because I've had a few in Lexington's bars and restaurants, but only when my meals and drinks were covered by rich guys in DC who encouraged such indulgences.

The price tags on my Pappy's and GTS's were not what I would have considered reasonable at all but most of those were also between December and May, so I'm wondering if the prices change with the season and relative availability of the products.

Last time I ran across it in Houston, the bar was asking $50 for a glass of Pappy 20.

Greg,

$12-$15 range if memory serves me correctly. The selection at the bourbon bars in KY is pretty incredible. Its not uncommon for them to carry 40 or so different bourbons.

Some of them did require a PVW flight to get the 23 yr. The PVW flights started to get a little pricy. A flight would be somewhere around $50-$60. Don't quote me, but I think my memory is not too far off.

[This message has been edited by austinag1997 (edited 11/2/2013 8:44a).]

Definitely seasonal pricing then. I recall my Pappy 15's and 20's being in the $60-$75 dollar range, and I never was able to get my hands on the 23. I guess once the restaurants have to start buying their inventory off of ebay the prices go up accordingly.

Scored bottles of THH, 2012 Four Roses Limited Edition, and Stagg Jr today!

Looked around at specs downtown today. Ended up with Four Roses single barrel.

Actually wasn't all that impressed with their selection.

If you're looking for a score, you won't find it at Specs downtown.

quote:

---

The downtown specs had a lot if the Four Roses 125th Anniv. if anyone is interested.

---

When did you see it on the shelf? I heard there was some on Wednesday, but that it was gone by the end of the day.

You have to ask. They had it on the shelf, but it was going so quickly that they had to limit one per customer.

FR ltd ed 125th anniversary was gone by Weds afternoon. I went in on Monday and got a bottle, but it wasn't on shelf (you had to ask). Last year they put it in the glass case in front of the bourbon aisle, but I don't think it ever made it in there this year because it was going so quick.

quote:

---

You have to ask. They had it on the shelf, but it was going so quickly that they had to limit one per customer.

---

I did ask. And now I am asking you when you found yours.

I found it on the shelf the Friday before last. I bought a case. I went back on Saturday to grab one more for a buddy and it was already in the back of the store on a 1 per customer basis. So it must have been flying off the shelf or something. The dude at Specs told me they got 17 cases.

I think Specs got a little surprised by the demand, and things got a little wonky. When I called to ask about it, I got hung up on a couple times. They also flat out lied to me and said they were out, when I know for a fact there were several unreserved bottles. I know they are tired of people calling, but I'm going to take up about 5 times as much of your time if I am in the store. I probably should have pressed it to get a bottle, but I had my hand full with some stuff at work. Its a shame, because I had been looking forward to trying this one for a while.

Another guy I know, who spends a lot at the downtown specs, said they were acting like @ssholes in the store. A manager from another store was having them hold a bottle, and another employee swiped it. Basically its a gigantic flustercluck.

My suggestion would be to start looking at stores in outlying areas. You'll be shocked by what you find in places you never dreamed would have good stuff.

QuantumAce, as I said in my previous post, I asked for and bought a bottle at downtown specs last monday. I sent a friend in to do the same on last tuesday (he was successful). And I sent another friend in to get one last wednesday evening and he was told they were all out.

I agree the downtown specs is a complete mess right now re limited release bourbon. I get a different story from each person I talk to down there. It is frustrating, but the big reason for all the issues is the absurd demand and limited supply. I think specs is really struggling and trying to figure out how to manage this on the fly. I've checked a few of the outlying stores but had no success. Everyone i go into says downtown specs gets the lions share of BTAC and PvW, and the limited amounts some of the outliers might get is gone quickly. Unfortunately, I don't have time to drive around Houston to check various liquor stores day after day when a new release comes out, so for me it is just dumb luck if I get anything.

I've suspected for quite some time that the Spec's stores hold much of their premium, limited supply stuff for preferred customers. The Spec's in Austin that I shop at is pretty understanding of the phone calls... they recommend daily calling.

From phone calls to actually getting your hands on a bottle is the difficult part. Agree with Dryfly on outlier stores.

They would have much of a problem if they would just put their supply on the shelf and let whoever comes by get it on a first come first serve basis.

Regarding the outlying stores, you don't even really need to venture out into the burbs to find the stuff, just away from the bigger places everyone else goes. Over the last few days, I've found a lot of bottles of stuff like Jeffersons Presidential Select 21 year in mass quantities. Try finding that stuff at Specs Downtown.

I think AustinAg is right about the downtown specs reserving their premium, limited release bourbons for preferred customers. However, I also think there should be limits on how much a customer can buy it off the shelves (1 bottle per person), otherwise, you just get hoarders buying up everything.

I'm still relatively new to the premium bourbon scene, but I've been pretty active for the last 3-4 years. Most of the Specs in Houston have encouraged calling, and they were more than willing to hold a bottle. I've even bought a few over the phone at the downtown store.

Most of these were pretty scarce last year, but its been a lot worse this year. I suspect there are more hoarders, and I know there are more flippers, which makes competition for the leftover bottles even tougher. Its even more frustrating to know where those bottles are, when you can't drop everything and take off to be the first in line to grab one.

I talked to the owner of one of my regular stops last week and he said in one day he had three "collectors" stop by his store looking for BTAC and Pappy. He told me these guys took the day off from work and drove around town looking for stuff.

Premium bourbon will become craft beer in 2014.

Those bourbons don't belong on the shelves due to hoarding and buying in bulk. Its also unfortunate that people buy and resell. Typically there are "waitlists" at larger chains to assist in controlling the sale of these premium bourbons. If these bourbons are placed on shelves, its most likely behind a locked glass door. Really the only solution to this problem is to produce more, but that takes away the 'mystique'

[This message has been edited by FarmersFightAg (edited 11/4/2013 6:58p).]

quote:

---

Really the only solution to this problem is to produce more...

---

Well... that, and prevent theft!

BTW... I wasn't referring necessarily to the downtown Houston Spec's. I suspect it is happening in Austin, but have little doubt the same thing may happen in Houston.

Not all Spec's get distributions of BTAC or Pappy. You have to keep that in mind. At least in Austin, you are fairly limited.

Kind of hard to just produce more of an 18 year bourbon.

Yeah, no doubt. Tough to plan for demand 18 years out. Today, some are doing better than others. Willett is only putting out 20 barrels/day. I think they are behind the demand in the very near future. BT is well behind on the BTAC and Pappy releases. Since you can't see behind that part of the curtain at BT, you have to wonder if they are increasing production on the aforementioned bourbons today.

After reading all of the recent posts on this page in regards to Specs and availability of BTAC, PVW, and FRLE - what do you really expect? There is no perfect science to it. I think putting their small allocation on the shelf on a first come, first serve basis is dumb for their business model. Heck yes, I would hold it back for the best customers who spend $10,000+ per year in their store. That's why you have a Spec key, they track how much you spend. When you give them your phone number to put it on "the list" of now 700 people, they plug it into their system and see if you only buy 2 bottles of Jack Daniels per year or 20 cases of vintage Boudreaux wine. Hmmm, who are they going to call first?!?

I do agree that their should be a 1 bottle limit on these highly allocated bourbons. I have been lucky more times that not and eventually have found just about every bourbon you can think of without being called from the list (with the exception of PVW). Yes, the people at Specs are either overwhelmed or flat out lying because you can hear 4 different stories within the same day.

I suggested a first come, first serve basis as a way to make sure the limited quantity stuff gets to the average person who can't ever find this stuff and not just a select group of valued customers. I wasn't trying to speak as to whether or not it was a good business model for Specs.

I generally find what I'm looking for a the Mom & Pop stores any way without having to deal with the politics at Specs downtown.

I don't think anyone is surprised. I was more bummed about how specs is handling it, and how much it has changed in the last year. A guy who buys a 4 bottles Makers Mark a year wanders in off the street and grabs a couple bottles, and someone who spends $5-10k a year gets told to piss off.