DryFly has a great list there for a first bottle.

I've turned a number of friends on to bourbon in the past couple of years, and I've never once failed to win someone over with the Buffalo Trace. So far that group consists of a beer-only drinker, a tequila drinker, and two vodka drinkers.

After you finish off whatever you decide on and go back to the store for your next bottle, take a good hard look at Evan Williams Single Barrel and Elmer T. Lee. Both in the mid-$20 range.

I've got a bottle of Elmer T. Lee and its very good. I got it for $33 which is why I didn't list it as a starter bottle. However, it's a very good bottle for someone trying bourbon for the first time. A little sweet, not too spicy, and very mellow.

picked up some Noah's mill and black maple hill this weekend. like them both but the Noah's mill was more complex I thought. mellowed out nicely with a little water but maintained flavors well. water in the black maple hill seemed to muddle it too much.

You know the back story on Black Maple Hill, don't you?

[link]http://spiritsjournal.klwines.com/klwinescom-spirits-blog/2012/7/13/the-story-of-black-maple-hill.html[/link]

http://spiritsjournal.klwines.com/klwinescom-spirits-blog/2012/7/13/the-story-of-black-maple-hill.html

yes you posted that a while back when someone asked about black maple hill specifically. there were some here that seemed to like it, so I picked it up.

I still want to try Black Maple Hill, but I haven't been able to ever find it at a store.

I don't know, for me it kind of ruins it pyschologically if I know they're just rebranding someone elses production.

I just passed up a bottle of Parkers Heritage Collection 7th Edition and Elijah Craig 21yr(expensive ~$200) while checking for Pappy, Stagg, etc. Should I reconsider on the PHC?

"I don't know, for me it kind of ruins it pyschologically if I know they're just rebranding someone elses production."

Like Pappy Van Winkle?

yeah to me it's not that much different than what Buffalo Trace does. and certainly no different than other independent bottler stuff like Rowan's and Noah's.

for me this is easy. did i like it, and what did i pay for it? that's all i need to know.

[This message has been edited by '03ag (edited 10/8/2013 1:00p).]

Senor Chang,

I got BMH at the Spec's off central in Dallas.

the problem with black maple hill is they've been all over the place with prior releases. the BMH you can find now has no age stated and isn't worth the money. i think when you hear folks mention how good it is, it's not the stuff they're bottling now, but prior, older releases. i've had 16 and 18 and if could find again, would buy again, but not recent bottlings.

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If by entry level you mean best bang for the buck you cannot go wrong with these:

Buffalo Trace
Larceny
Weller 12 yr
Eagle Rare 10

That Weller 12 is as good as a $200 bottle of Pappy Van Winkle.

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Seriously, have you ever tried Pappy 15 or 20? They are completely different animals than Weller 12. But keep on keeping on, right?

Yes I have tried it and I also had a conversation with the Texas rep for Buffalo Trace at the Specs downtown in Houston last week and he said the exact same thing. Don't believe me or him? Well, I read an interview with the master distiller at BT and he said it as well. One would think he knows what he's doing. Are Pappy 15 and 20 different than Weller 12? Sure, but not so much that it warrants the difference in price. That's what the people at BT have to say. Why do they sell Pappy for more? Because they can.

The story on Pappy is very similar to that of BMH. It has a kicks @ss label and a cult following. People want it because they can't get it. People want what they can't get and the price goes up. When the price goes up, people think that means higher quality, which makes them want it even more, which means the price goes up, and on and on and on...

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Ducks4Brkfast12:53p


"I don't know, for me it kind of ruins it pyschologically if I know they're just rebranding someone elses production."

Like Pappy Van Winkle?

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Pappy is distilled at the Buffalo Trace distillery. Pappy is one of their bourbons much like Elmer T. Lee, Eagle Rare, Blantons, etc.

The guy who puts out BMH buys his bourbon from from someone else. He doesn't make it. That's far different than what happens with Pappy. We know where Pappy comes from and who makes it.

Neither one of them makes their own bourbon. Pappy tells us who distills their bourbon, while BMH does not. I would prefer to know who distills both, but it really doesn't make that much difference to me. Pappy has more of a partnership with BT than most NDPs, but they still don't make anything. Calling it one of their bourbons, just like Blantons or ELT is inaccurate.

Re: Pappy vs Weller 12

Weller 12 is comparable to Pappy 12 Year Lot B and for a great price, but nothing like or close to any of the older Pappy offerings.

Weller 12 is delicious and an incredible bargain. I highly recommend it for an everyday drinker. But I would stop comparing it to Pappy in general.

Just my opinion, but I don't think we should discount any bourbon simply because someone else distilled it. As mentioned, some pretty fine bourbons are made by non-distiller producers. Just like a winemaker, it's a special talent to select multiple bourbons of different ages, barrels, and locations and blend them into a desirable flavor profile. As long as they're not claiming they distilled it, I'll drink them all in the spirit they were meant to be enjoyed.

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Just my opinion, but I don't think we should discount any bourbon simply because someone else distilled it.

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Not discounting it per se. Just saying it kind of ruins it for me. Kind of like listening to practically every song Tim McGraw has ever put out. To me, it's nice to know that the person singing the song wrote it too because it gives you a little more insight to the life and times/experiences of the artist. Tim McGraw has put out some good songs, no doubt, but there's always that little area in the back of my mind that knows he's not singing about something personal and it kind of takes away from it.

I can enjoy a bottle of BMH, but I'd also like to know wher it came from too.

I get what you're saying DryFly, but my understanding is that the Van Winkle family is still actively involved in the production of the Pappy line. They don't operate their own distillery anymore (SW) and have sold off their other brands like WL Weller and Old Fitz, but they still participate in crafting the Pappy line at Buffalo Trace, and I do not believe that Buffalo Trace (Sazarac) has the authority to produce the Pappy line without Van Winkle participation, authorization, or approval.

Also, sounds like I need to check out this Weller 12 stuff...

To me, the single biggest variable in making bourbon is who your master distiller is. The mash bill and distilling is mostly chemistry (or old family recipes), but knowing what rick in what warehouse for how long, that part is the magic. Not all warehouses are created equal and knowing the sweetspots in each one take years of training and history. Not to mention the palate to be able to taste something in a barrel at year 3 or 4 and gauge what is going on in there and what has to happen for the next 12 or 15 years. The fact that BT distills the Pappy recipe is not crucial. Any good distiller with the right equipment could do that.

I like like bourbon with a touch of sweetness. Weller 12 has that along with a few of the others that I mentioned like Eagle Rare.

Weller 12 is solid for the price, but its not quite as good as it used to be. Blending Weller 12 and Old Weller Antique can bring back some of that old magic they both used to have.

If you are willing to put up with a little trial and error, you can develop a blend tailored to your exact tastes. A good place to start is a 1:1 ratio, then start increasing the OWA as desired. I like to let it sit for at least a couple days before I taste each batch.

^Some real alcoholic **** right there.

or you can do like me and mix a 4:1 ratio Weller 12 to caffeine free diet coke in a 16oz styrofoam cup.

IF THE STOP SELLING THE BOOZE I LIKE, THEN I HAVE TO MAKE IT MYSELF!!!

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or you can do like me and mix a 4:1 ratio Weller 12 to caffeine free diet coke in a 16oz styrofoam cup

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If you're going to add bourbon to your diet coke, why not just go with regular coke?

What's the difference between Weller 12 and Old Weller Antique?

Old Weller Antique is 107 proof, and until recently was aged for 7 yrs. It has a lot of those in your face flavors that mellow with age, with much less oak than Weller 12. The finish is short, and it lacks the depth and complexity of the 12.

With a "mingling" of the two, you can get some of the best characteristics of both of them.

I don't want the calories and caffein. And I don't drink sodas, so regular coke is way too sweet for me.

With less calories to impede the absorbing of the alcohol, Diet Coke can get you up to 40% drunker.

Diet Coke has caffeine.

Picked up a bottle of Black Maple Hill earlier today. I will give my review when I have some time to sit down with it.