He said he gave 169 3.5 years ago and spent about 9,000 on the project. That's 178 all together. List price was 184 when he sold. I'm guessing the sales price from there was about 175. Netting out 3K given today's housing market is pretty much even.

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not trying to be a total douch

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Just a partial Doush?

And who cares? Was he complaining if that he lost a ton of money?

[This message has been edited by AgFB (edited 7/17/2012 9:16a).]

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Netting out 3K given today's housing market is pretty much even.

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You forgot to subtract the Agent's commissions or 6%.

Even at $184 he net'd $172 or $3k more than he paid.

No doubt it made his home very appealing and helped it sell fast. Project like this are "lifestyle improvement" choices, not investments. Sucks that he did not get to enjoy it for very long.

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You forgot to subtract the Agent's commissions or 6%.

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No, that cost would exist regardless of if the outdoor kitchen were built or not. Since it's a sunk cost, it's not taken into account in this sort of question. The proper question should be "what's the price delta from adding the yard improvement?" He spent $9,500. I would almost guarantee based on the purchase price and sales price that the delta was roughly 0 if not positive, and that's not even to mention the days on market might have been reduced as well.

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No, that cost would exist regardless of if the outdoor kitchen were built or not. Since it's a sunk cost, it's not taken into account in this sort of question.

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ok, my retarded friend. I'll go more slowly. You were questioning the net return-on-investment from the backyard construction project. That is, you were doubtful that the impact would be neither greater than 0. So, by saying you must subtract out the realtor's commissions from the sales price to determine that impact, you're saying that if the backyard construction had never taken place, that the house would have required no realtor's commissions. That's a well thought out position.

If you'd like to include realtor's commissions, you must also include that in the purchase price, big dog. Trust me.

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That is, you were doubtful that the impact would be neither greater than 0.

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I never said the impact was zero (may want to check your grammar there), I just asked why he thought he would get 100% return.

Since we don't have a similar sale to compare it too in the same neighborhood with out a patio, we can't tell for sure exactly what his return was. And from what all the agents say about BSC, values have gone up over the last few years. So his sale price was going to be higher regardless.

Ask and realtor or real estate broker and they will tell you ouside projects add curb appeal, which does have value, but pay back very little vs. the cost.

His patio was a lifestyle investment that nett'd him personal satisfaction gain more than anything else. Did it raise the price of his house, sure, but not $9,000 (+ all his labor - that has value too). But I never suggested it was at or below zero.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I see your point on the commission on both ends. Calling me a retard definitely made you look good though...douchbag.

[This message has been edited by agracer (edited 7/17/2012 2:42p).]

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And from what all the agents say about BSC, values have gone up over the last few years. So his sale price was going to be higher regardless.

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Thinking agents know much of anything beyond how to market is your first mistake then. HPI for the College Station MSA over the time period of January 2010 to July of 2012 results in a price change of + .39% (not exactly changing anyone's life there). If you extend further back to a full three years, then the price adjustment rises to a full 2.31%. That's not negligible, but it's also not the rosy picture that some in the area would paint.

Sorry to TTT my own thread but I didn't notice all these posts before and I thought I would answer some of the questions and "thoughts"..

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Even pools only return maybe 50%. Did you really believe a patio and grill would be a net loss of $0.0 on your house sale? Even if it was 10-years from now?

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Do people themselves build their own pools? The cost of the pool is for labor and materials. That is why most pools dont recover 100% because labor makes it not profitable. I did all this work so take the labor cost out. That is your roughly 50% you are referring to. I had contractors come over and say it would have been 15-25k to have this built. I had them come over when I was at the last stages and I just wanted it finished. Luckily I stuck it out and finished it myself!

I didn't build this to sell the house, I built it because I was going to use it for years to come. But life choices happen and you have to make tough decisions. Unfortunately my choice was to leave this behind and I really miss this house.

The subdivision was still in development when I sold the house so the buyers could have built the same house from scratch on an open lot for 169,900. The realtor started the listing at 199,900. After a few days of nothing, I told him to lower it to 184,900 because I needed to sell fast. I have been in the double mortgage position before and did not want that. I ended up selling for 180,000 and some cash because they also bought all my electronics I put in it. You can see what I just did at my current house here
http://texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2374747&page=1&forum_id=30

I didnt do near the setup in old house but had a decent setup.

So I did come out on top even with the realtor fees.

Thanks for checking in!

So when's the patio going in at the new house?

Patio - not anytime soon (never).
Outdoor kitchen - Possibility

So, is there an update with an outdoor kitchen yet? Surely it has been enough time to get that project completed.

He sold this house 2 years ago and I haven't seen mention of the new house hardscape since this thread.

We just closed on our new house at the end of March. I bought a cheap grill as a place holder until I can get going on an outdoor kitchen but it will happen. I don't think it is going to be as elaborate as the first one but it will be something. I have the gas and electric stubbed out when I am able to tackle this one.

Excellent!

Closed on a house recently myself and have been exploring adding an outdoor kitchen as well. Probably wouldn't be able to start anything for a few months but the play by play you posted from your first build definitely helps planning. I definitely won't be doing a full patio like your first build but I like the grill/counter space combo you had going.

Looking forward to your second edition.

Late to this thread, but will be doing something similar.

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After I have laid all the stones, I will go back with a polymeric sand. This is supposed to be flexible enough not to crack if/when the stones move.

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The stones I have placed already are just "smushed" into the decomposed granite (DG). Then I take extra DG and fill in the cracks. This keeps the stones locked with each other and I havent had any problems of movement with the original set of placed stones.

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Which one did you do?

I filled the cracks with decomposed granite and it was that way for about a week. After the granite not "settling" and it getting caught in shoes and then scratching the flagstone and carried into the house, I ended up sweeping the loose granite out of the cracks. This worked out quite well. Instead of the granite being flush with the stones, the compacted granite was about 1/4" to 3/4" below the rock surface.

So you didn't use the polymeric sand at all?

I did not.

Olag, do you have a picture of the overall project, for some reason I can't see them if there is one. I've got some people that want a kitchen built and I want to show them yours for ideas. Can you email them to me

Thanks bro

I emailed you a couple.

neat build

I get verklempt all over again thinking about all this work and him not being able to enjoy it's completion.

I hadn't seen this thread until yesterday. There's a ridiculous amount of work involved here

Whats bad is the wife and I thought we could get it done over a 4 day weekend...yeah that didn't happen.

We still wish we would had done things differently in order to stay in College Station. We miss that house and living in College Station. Live and learn I guess.

OLAG! Great to hear from you! I am so glad I glanced back at this thread today.

We have never, ever attempted a grand scale job on our own since 1982 but I did learn to give triple the time frame when estimating completion. The carpet guy said three days more like a week and a Saturday morning. Windows were 3-4hrs and they took every bit of 4.75hrs.

Maybe this move will pay off in the long run and you can retire early and move back to CS. You could design back yard retreats and we know you pay attention to details. I will say it took you, FREAKIN FOREVER to get it finished but it was worth it.