aggiegolfer2012 said:

---

We don't have all the data to know what the actual advantages or disadvantages are from a course set up standpoint.
Both sides have an analytics team that are looking at a whole lot more than the year long averages and strokes gained data we can see.
They have every shot these guys have ever hit on shotlink. They know dispersion patterns off the tee and on approach, approach proximities from different yardages, they probably even have shot shape data and a million other data points. Not to mention putting. Does my team have an edge in putting from inside 15'? Maybe I set pins that are more accessible. If not, maybe I set pins where nobody can get close.
And it doesn't have to be a team wide advantage, or even a big one. But every little advantage you can find and expose in the first 2 days gives you a cushion going into singles.
I've got a buddy i play with and we're about the same skill level, if you put our general stats on paper you'd see no difference. But if you give either one of us the course set up, we can make it miserable for the other.
It's a simplified example, and the margins are much smaller in an event like this, but those analytics guys know how to find the tendencies. And as long as we allow the home team to set up the course, we'll continue to see these large home team win margins.

---

At one point last week (I can't recall where), I heard that the Euros had used the exact analysis you've described and identified a specific range (I think 180-220 yards) on approach shots and par 3s where they were much better than the U.S. and set up the course accordingly to take advange of this mismatch.

Marauder Blue 6 said:

---

aggiegolfer2012 said:

---

We don't have all the data to know what the actual advantages or disadvantages are from a course set up standpoint.
Both sides have an analytics team that are looking at a whole lot more than the year long averages and strokes gained data we can see.
They have every shot these guys have ever hit on shotlink. They know dispersion patterns off the tee and on approach, approach proximities from different yardages, they probably even have shot shape data and a million other data points. Not to mention putting. Does my team have an edge in putting from inside 15'? Maybe I set pins that are more accessible. If not, maybe I set pins where nobody can get close.
And it doesn't have to be a team wide advantage, or even a big one. But every little advantage you can find and expose in the first 2 days gives you a cushion going into singles.
I've got a buddy i play with and we're about the same skill level, if you put our general stats on paper you'd see no difference. But if you give either one of us the course set up, we can make it miserable for the other.
It's a simplified example, and the margins are much smaller in an event like this, but those analytics guys know how to find the tendencies. And as long as we allow the home team to set up the course, we'll continue to see these large home team win margins.

---

At one point last week (I can't recall where), I heard that the Euros had used the exact analysis you've described and identified a specific range (I think 180-220 yards) on approach shots and par 3s where they were much better than the U.S. and set up the course accordingly to take advange of this mismatch.

---

This was said on the broadcast several times. I haven't seen any post-Ryder Cup data to indicate whether they actually played better from that distance than the Americans. Would be interesting to see how the respective teams performed on the par 3s.

We need to grant Eduardo Molinari US citizenship and get him on our side apparently.

Whelp. He ain't wrong. About any of it.

DannyDuberstein said:

---

Homa called out our main problem. We are flat-out unprepared. We show up too late, and there are too many events scheduled in the window we are there. We need to decide if we want to win this thing, or if we just want to have a JO session and hope for the best. Because our strategy has been the latter.

---

Agreed. I was thinking/hoping this time would be different from that perspective, but it wasn't and the signs were there all along. Leadership needs to communicate the expected preparation level going forward, especially in 2027.

I also kinda disagree that we need an Eduardo Molinari on our side. I think we're mostly fine from a stats perspective. Both sides have shown the ability to setup foursomes to their advantage on their home course, and that's decided every recent Ryder Cup.

I wasn't that caught off guard by the idea that the Euros had a good game-plan to dominate foursomes, it was more "how" they did it... essentially by placing a premium on medium/long iron play. Sitting there after the 2021 Ryder Cup, I never would have guessed the Euros would use that tact successfully 2 years later.

But then I thought about it a little more:

-Rory, Hovland and Rahm are three of the ~four best ball-strikers in the world and they can anchor three of the pairings. Put Rory/Rahm with two other top 20 ball-strikers and put Hovland with one of the best drivers in the game. Touch-up the courses to play to their strengths, and that's six close-to-automatic foursomes points over two days.

Back in 2021, Rory was struggling and Hovland wasn't anywhere near what he's become. That's a big swing in favor of the Euros to have those two near the top of the game.

-USA meanwhile... Scottie's stock is up since 2021 but alot of other guys were down. JT was perfectly capable of anchoring a foursomes pairing in 2018 and 2021, but not quite there this year (reminds me a little of 2021 Rory). DJ and Bryson were gone. Cantlay/Schauffele needed a day to get going. All of a sudden, the ball-striking might of the 2021 squad had been replaced with guys like Harman and Burns.

Don't get me wrong, Harman and Burns are the type of guys I thought for years we should bring to Europe. Tough scrappy guys who make putts. Could be better fits on courses like Gleneagles or Le Golf Nacionale... and there was reason to believe Marco Simone would be setup similar. But props to the Euros for recognizing some trends working in their favor and shifting gameplan away from what worked in 2014/2018.

While I don't think "personnel" or "talent" is why we lost a few weeks ago, I do think we're potentially setup to be a bit better in 2025-2027. There's the preparation aspect that needs to be addressed. But also:

-I think JT is going to bounce back from the 23 Ryder Cup like Rory bounced back from 21 and be formidable again at future cups. In foursomes, I want to see him with Max (unless Spieth starts hitting the ball better). Send them off first and set the tone.

-Getting Zalitoris back will be big. Stud ball-striker and I think he has the right energy/passion for the event. Put him out there with Scottie in either format and don't touch it. I'd even say let Zalitoris take the harder set of tee shots foursomes and let Scottie pound on the Euro pairing #2 on the easy holes.

-Just have Cantlay/Schauffele ready when the whistle blows

-Getting Bryson back will help. Maybe DJ too if his game is still sharp. We've got a couple more top tier hitters like Cam Young and Finau in reserve too. Any of them could be a good partner at a home cup where we setup the course.

Zalitoris plus Scottie would be quite the combo on the greens.

All kidding aside, I hope the best for the guy and hope he makes it back. His injury issues seem serious.

There was a show on the golf channel today about the Hero Cup that Europe did this year. It had interviews and they talked about how it was an opportunity for the Europeans to get a good feel for team golf and build camaraderie. They also saw it as a way to get younger players they think will be future Ryder Cup players experience in that setting(foursomes, fourball and singles). Luke Donald was heavily involved. All I could think was "why hasn't the US thought of doing something like that".

Because many of the top US players want to spend their money and time not be playing golf in the fall or off season. Maybe start treating the Presidents Cup as a place to try out other top US golfers more often.

I hope Will can return to play next season but he needs to be fully healthy with his back injury before playing week in and week out.

HeyAbbott said:

---

Because many of the top US players want to spend their money and time not be playing golf in the fall or off season. Maybe start treating the Presidents Cup as a place to try out other top US golfers more often.

---

I'm sorry, but I think that is a poor excuse. You're telling me that the US players will do exhibition stuff like that upcoming Netflix Cup but not a paid team event similar to the Hero Cup? If the US wants to win overseas again then they need to start doing stuff like this. One event every two years in the off season isn't going to kill those guys. I do like your idea about the Presidents Cup.

Yeah I always thought that's what the Presidents Cup was for honestly. Not to mention young guys have the Walker Cup from their amateur days.