Sources are telling me that Greg Norman is fronting a meeting right now.
— Flushing It (@flushingitgolf) June 7, 2023
The feeling is this is good for LIV. They have a clear runway for business in 2024/25 and LIV Golf is going nowhere. (Sorry Rory)
I expect an official statement shortly.
LIV and PGA Tour Merging
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Last: 1 yr ago by Hub `93
Lol where is the money coming from? The purses?
🚨💰🤝 PGA Tour Commissioner Jay Monahan says Rory and Tiger ‘will be rewarded’ for their loyalty. @TWlegion @TrackingRory pic.twitter.com/hb5kZrIrcU
— NUCLR GOLF (@NUCLRGOLF) June 7, 2023
PGAT has said the 2024 season will go on as planned, so LIV playing another year or two so player contracts could be fulfilled wouldn't be too shocking.
The billions being brought from PIF. the new company they are forming is for profit, not a non-profit like the current model which will still be around to pay pensions. They can pay guys regular contracts if they like under this new organization.
MarathonAg12 said:
Lol where is the money coming from? The purses?🚨💰🤝 PGA Tour Commissioner Jay Monahan says Rory and Tiger ‘will be rewarded’ for their loyalty. @TWlegion @TrackingRory pic.twitter.com/hb5kZrIrcU
— NUCLR GOLF (@NUCLRGOLF) June 7, 2023
Haha at least the 2 already insanely rich guys are gonna be take care of. Jay is a ****ing moron. How about the guys that have to actually fight for their cards each year that were offered much smaller sums, but attractive sums nonetheless?
I don't know that I would call the PGA's existing partnerships with media networks "collusion." NBC, CBS, ESPN and Golf Channel already had deals with the PGAT, so that pretty much made them no-gos. And it didn't take any collusion for that to be the case. LIV also had to know going in that those channels were likely off the table for that reason. It was just the golf landscape they chose to enter. I just don't get some of y'all's desire to see black/white, good/bad, collusion!, etc. in everything.Bunk Moreland said:DannyDuberstein said:
Rory was the PGAT's leverage. He's one reason why LIV wasn't able to get all the talented it wanted, ended up relegated to the CW with almost no one watching,
This is quite the leap. Again they were relegated to the CW due to the PR team pushing 9/11 stuff + collusion with the PGAT and the media networks. Not because of Rory McIlroy.
If LIV had an audience, someone would have been willing to carry it. They didn't, so they ended up on the CW.
I also love the disconnect between LIV having literally billions to buy all of this, including apparently the PGA yesterday. Yet, they also somehow couldn't manage to pay one reporter, one TV station, or one media outlet to give them good coverage. Who knew the mass media was so principled?
JCA1 said:I don't know that I would call the PGA's existing partnerships with media networks "collusion." NBC, CBS, ESPN and Golf Channel already had deals with the PGAT, so that pretty much made them no-gos. And it didn't take any collusion for that to be the case. LIV also had to know going in that those channels were likely off the table for that reason. It was just the golf landscape they chose to enter. I just don't get some of y'all's desire to see black/white, good/bad, collusion!, etc. in everything.Bunk Moreland said:DannyDuberstein said:
Rory was the PGAT's leverage. He's one reason why LIV wasn't able to get all the talented it wanted, ended up relegated to the CW with almost no one watching,
This is quite the leap. Again they were relegated to the CW due to the PR team pushing 9/11 stuff + collusion with the PGAT and the media networks. Not because of Rory McIlroy.
If LIV had an audience, someone would have been willing to carry it. They didn't, so they ended up on the CW.
I also love the disconnect between LIV having literally billions to buy all of this, including apparently the PGA yesterday. Yet, they also somehow couldn't manage to pay one reporter, one TV station, or one media outlet to give them good coverage. Who knew the mass media was so principled?
Completely disagree with this notion. The PR firm + all the networks standing strong with the PGAT absolutely colluded to keep LIV out of mainstream tv contracts in the US. To act as if it was just a simple supply/demand problem is so intentionally obtuse when we know what already happened.
ABS/ESPN, FOX, CBS etc all play other football leagues on their networks and they're beholden to the NFL behemoth.
In a pure vacuum, if CBS, NBC or ABC/ESPN picked up LIV broadcasts the ratings would have been much higher and we would have actually seen what the audience could have been. They had a ton of star power and people would have tuned in to watch had it been more accessible.
Came to say this. Even with them being in the CW I expect a large pump in ratings now after all this.
I totally agree with you.
I expect US open next week to get some huge ratings. How sweet would it be if Phil could win it
Ahhh...very true. With drama comes huge ratings.AustinCountyAg said:
I expect US open next week to get some huge ratings. How sweet would it be if Phil could win it
Holy hell...imagine Phil and Rory paired for the final round of the US Open.
Bunk Moreland said:DannyDuberstein said:
Rory was the PGAT's leverage. He's one reason why LIV wasn't able to get all the talented it wanted, ended up relegated to the CW with almost no one watching,
This is quite the leap. Again they were relegated to the CW due to the PR team pushing 9/11 stuff + collusion with the PGAT and the media networks. Not because of Rory McIlroy.
No one was watching when it was free on Youtube. How is that a leap? No one was watching
I would not have watched unless nothing else was on. It just didn't appeal to me in any way except the train wreck aspect. Don't care for any of the players that moved over at this point either. Brooks especially. Used to like Phil but he just does not seam like himself. Dustin can play but he is not fun to watch. But I am glad it's over so the pro liv people can talk about something else
DannyDuberstein said:Bunk Moreland said:DannyDuberstein said:
Rory was the PGAT's leverage. He's one reason why LIV wasn't able to get all the talented it wanted, ended up relegated to the CW with almost no one watching,
This is quite the leap. Again they were relegated to the CW due to the PR team pushing 9/11 stuff + collusion with the PGAT and the media networks. Not because of Rory McIlroy.
No one was watching when it was free on Youtube. How is that a leap? No one was watching
Because the main golf viewing audience is still by and large a TV channel audience. They aren't going to go seek it out on a streaming service like YT. The casual golf fan searches the main channels on sunday to watch a little golf. Not you or me, but the casual fan where ratings matter. If they're being excluded from those opportunities then nobody will watch.
Hell look at how much *****ing happens on the big tournament threads here on where to find the coverage when you have to go to ESPN+ or Peacock, etc., or how many repeat questions get asked on where to find it. This isn't difficult to understand.
Bunk Moreland said:
In a pure vacuum, if CBS, NBC or ABC/ESPN picked up LIV broadcasts the ratings would have been much higher and we would have actually seen what the audience could have been. They had a ton of star power and people would have tuned in to watch had it been more accessible.
It was completely free to watch and still no one did. OU softball had better ratings than LIV.
Correct. Mostly because the product is not appealing.DannyDuberstein said:Bunk Moreland said:DannyDuberstein said:
Rory was the PGAT's leverage. He's one reason why LIV wasn't able to get all the talented it wanted, ended up relegated to the CW with almost no one watching,
This is quite the leap. Again they were relegated to the CW due to the PR team pushing 9/11 stuff + collusion with the PGAT and the media networks. Not because of Rory McIlroy.
No one was watching when it was free on Youtube. How is that a leap? No one was watching
Braxton.Sherrill said:Bunk Moreland said:
In a pure vacuum, if CBS, NBC or ABC/ESPN picked up LIV broadcasts the ratings would have been much higher and we would have actually seen what the audience could have been. They had a ton of star power and people would have tuned in to watch had it been more accessible.
It was completely free to watch and still no one did. OU softball had better ratings than LIV.
When did OU softball only appear on Youtube of the CW?
Casual, sure. But a league with any success whatsoever has a hardcore fanbase as well. No one was watching LIV. There was no "you or me" for LIV, as you put it. They averaged under 100,000 viewers in their inaugural season (when curiosity was it's highest) when offered for free, without commercials, on the world's largest streaming platform. Even after it was on TV, no one still watched it and they ultimately refused to even provide ratings, after the first few tourneys were broadcast. They literally had no fanbase, casual, hardcore or otherwise.Bunk Moreland said:DannyDuberstein said:Bunk Moreland said:DannyDuberstein said:
Rory was the PGAT's leverage. He's one reason why LIV wasn't able to get all the talented it wanted, ended up relegated to the CW with almost no one watching,
This is quite the leap. Again they were relegated to the CW due to the PR team pushing 9/11 stuff + collusion with the PGAT and the media networks. Not because of Rory McIlroy.
No one was watching when it was free on Youtube. How is that a leap? No one was watching
Because the main golf viewing audience is still by and large a TV channel audience. They aren't going to go seek it out on a streaming service like YT. The casual golf fan searches the main channels on sunday to watch a little golf. Not you or me, but the casual fan where ratings matter. If they're being excluded from those opportunities then nobody will watch.
Hell look at how much *****ing happens on the big tournament threads here on where to find the coverage when you have to go to ESPN+ or Peacock, etc., or how many repeat questions get asked on where to find it. This isn't difficult to understand.
I'm sure you're right that more people would have watched if it was on FOX. But a sport that can't get 100,000 people to watch it isn't going to magically get a couple million just because.
Capitalism comes to professional golf and it is making it awkward
JP_Losman said:
shadily-funded Capitalism comes to professional golf and it is making it awkward because of years of posturing done by the PGA Tour
FIFY.
Capitalism didn't make this awkward, backroom meetings with people you said you were never doing business with did…among other things.
JCA, I agree with what you are saying. What befuddles me is why JM agreed to this deal.
Is the PGAT having financial problems? Were the prospects with the litigation not going well?
I know the "Whys" do not matter, but it makes me very curious.
I still hope this blows up in JM's face. Looking 10-20 years down the road, with the Saudis' bankroll, I can see them owning and running the for-profit entity that is being created with this agreement. And by then the PGAT could be so financially dependent on the Saudis that the Tour would have no other options.
So in the long run, this COULD be really bad for professional golf. And what is bad for them could bleed over to golf in general. Of course that could mean tee times would be easier to get!
Is the PGAT having financial problems? Were the prospects with the litigation not going well?
I know the "Whys" do not matter, but it makes me very curious.
I still hope this blows up in JM's face. Looking 10-20 years down the road, with the Saudis' bankroll, I can see them owning and running the for-profit entity that is being created with this agreement. And by then the PGAT could be so financially dependent on the Saudis that the Tour would have no other options.
So in the long run, this COULD be really bad for professional golf. And what is bad for them could bleed over to golf in general. Of course that could mean tee times would be easier to get!
LIV guys got the reward without showing any loyalty.zgolfz85 said:MarathonAg12 said:
Lol where is the money coming from? The purses?🚨💰🤝 PGA Tour Commissioner Jay Monahan says Rory and Tiger ‘will be rewarded’ for their loyalty. @TWlegion @TrackingRory pic.twitter.com/hb5kZrIrcU
— NUCLR GOLF (@NUCLRGOLF) June 7, 2023
Haha at least the 2 already insanely rich guys are gonna be take care of. Jay is a ****ing moron. How about the guys that have to actually fight for their cards each year that were offered much smaller sums, but attractive sums nonetheless?
That has always happened to Greg Norman whether it was choking the golf course or pissing folks off in the golf world to not being included in the confidential negotiations over the past weeks.
Finally, fan friendly scrambles with real pro cheating and big money mulligans to shoot 52.bthotugigem05 said:
No. PIF is the exclusive investor in a new umbrella entity that will own the PGAT, LIV, and DPWT. The individual companies operations will operate independently but their actions will be coordinated.
While the current form of LIV will almost certainly go away, I would imagine they will make LIV a more casual/party golf team tournament series that happens in the off-season.
I'm still in awe that this was able to get done without anyone knowing. I do think like others have said that it was likely to get leaked and that's why the announcement was rushed through with seemingly no real plan to deal with the blowback, but insane that in this day and age that most if not all of the power players were in the dark about this
This is from sources at LIV about the meeting today:
— Flushing It (@flushingitgolf) June 7, 2023
- LIV golf isn’t going anywhere
- We are and will continue to be a stand alone entity
- Business as usual for us for this year and beyond
- All headwinds and obstacles have now been removed and our runway is clear
- LIV golf…
maybe with this new golf evolution, they'll make the stakes a bit saucier...like the ability to sleep with the 2nd place player's wife or something
AggieDruggist89 said:LIV guys got the reward without showing any loyalty.zgolfz85 said:MarathonAg12 said:
Lol where is the money coming from? The purses?🚨💰🤝 PGA Tour Commissioner Jay Monahan says Rory and Tiger ‘will be rewarded’ for their loyalty. @TWlegion @TrackingRory pic.twitter.com/hb5kZrIrcU
— NUCLR GOLF (@NUCLRGOLF) June 7, 2023
Haha at least the 2 already insanely rich guys are gonna be take care of. Jay is a ****ing moron. How about the guys that have to actually fight for their cards each year that were offered much smaller sums, but attractive sums nonetheless?
They just took a huge risk on a start up and being black balled from the monopoly in town that owns the media and gullible fans. No big deal. Not near as hard as doing nothing.
Who knows and we may never know the full story.SW AG80 said:
JCA, I agree with what you are saying. What befuddles me is why JM agreed to this deal.
Is the PGAT having financial problems? Were the prospects with the litigation not going well?
I know the "Whys" do not matter, but it makes me very curious.
I still hope this blows up in JM's face. Looking 10-20 years down the road, with the Saudis' bankroll, I can see them owning and running the for-profit entity that is being created with this agreement. And by then the PGAT could be so financially dependent on the Saudis that the Tour would have no other options.
So in the long run, this COULD be really bad for professional golf. And what is bad for them could bleed over to golf in general. Of course that could mean tee times would be easier to get!
My best guess is the PGAT were not prepared for the amount of time and money the PIF was willing to throw at this (both through funding LIV and the litigation). I think the PGAT thought the PIF would give up on LIV after a year or two. When they didn't and showed every intention of keeping LIV going for the foreseeable future, I think the Tour took a hard look at their finances and realized they would likely end up on some precarious financial footing.
The COVID years hurt the bottom line and then LIV showed up and they had to both up their purses and pay for costly litigation. I think the Tour was prepared to do that for a year or so and thought the PIF would give up in that timeframe. I think Yasir convinced Jay of how much money they were actually willing to burn to see this thing through and Jay then realized the Tour might not be able to keep up financially. Between litigation costs and having to strongarm sponsors to pony up more money so the Tour's purses could at least stay within shouting distance of LIV purses, the Tour had basically drained every money well it had. The prospect of having to make these numbers work each and every year for the foreseeable future was probably pretty daunting. And that's when Yasir said, "instead of us spending billions trying to break you, why don't you just partner with us and those billions can be used to help you."
Edit - And I'll add, I think LIV's lack of commercial success may have ironically hurt the Tour in some sense. If LIV was financially successful (or even showing any signs of financial success), I think the PIF might not have approached the PGAT. What the PIF wants isn't necessarily LIV, but a foothold in an ongoing, profitable golf organization. If that was LIV, so be it. But he prospects that LIV would provide that were diminishing by the day, so I think Yasir set his sights on trying to buy his way into the PGAT again.
I'll edit one more time to try and be succinct -- It wasn't LIV's success that brought the PGAT to the table, it was the amount of money the PIF was willing to burn, despite LIV's lack of success, that brought the PGAT to the table.
What about Hideki and Will Zalatoris? Where's their rewards?AgLA06 said:AggieDruggist89 said:LIV guys got the reward without showing any loyalty.zgolfz85 said:MarathonAg12 said:
Lol where is the money coming from? The purses?🚨💰🤝 PGA Tour Commissioner Jay Monahan says Rory and Tiger ‘will be rewarded’ for their loyalty. @TWlegion @TrackingRory pic.twitter.com/hb5kZrIrcU
— NUCLR GOLF (@NUCLRGOLF) June 7, 2023
Haha at least the 2 already insanely rich guys are gonna be take care of. Jay is a ****ing moron. How about the guys that have to actually fight for their cards each year that were offered much smaller sums, but attractive sums nonetheless?
They just took a huge risk on a start up and being black balled from the monopoly in town that owns the media and gullible fans. No big deal. Not near as hard as doing nothing.
AggieDruggist89 said:What about Hideki and Will Zalatoris? Where's their rewards?AgLA06 said:AggieDruggist89 said:LIV guys got the reward without showing any loyalty.zgolfz85 said:MarathonAg12 said:
Lol where is the money coming from? The purses?🚨💰🤝 PGA Tour Commissioner Jay Monahan says Rory and Tiger ‘will be rewarded’ for their loyalty. @TWlegion @TrackingRory pic.twitter.com/hb5kZrIrcU
— NUCLR GOLF (@NUCLRGOLF) June 7, 2023
Haha at least the 2 already insanely rich guys are gonna be take care of. Jay is a ****ing moron. How about the guys that have to actually fight for their cards each year that were offered much smaller sums, but attractive sums nonetheless?
They just took a huge risk on a start up and being black balled from the monopoly in town that owns the media and gullible fans. No big deal. Not near as hard as doing nothing.
They chose not to jump. Everyone knew the quick big pay day was a one-time opportunity. Aggie369 with his PGA pro connections said a lot of guys began to call back and the offers were drastically reduced or gone.
I don't understand this concept that the guys who truly turned down offers should be 'made right' somehow. They chose not to go. That's fine. I admire their loyalty. They don't deserve a penny for that. And they'll likely still stand to earn a lot more based off this news for future Tour events.
Their leverage gave PGAT more bargaining power. That has value.
Does everybody think team golf will survive?
Please no, please no.
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