KatyAg01 said:

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Rumors that Phil stiffed Bones out of a few hundred grand which ultimately led to an acrimonious split. If true, what a chump.

Dude gambles $40 million but needs past-due invoices from his caddie for a few hundred grand? Hope it's false, because I have less than zero respect for him of true. He's been a fan favorite, but this would undo all the good will he's accrued over decades.

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Taking the whole Kuchar situation to the next level.

Don't think that one is true

powerbelly said:

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If they only pull guys like Garcia this new league will be like a fart in the wind.

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This isn't the end game.

If Sergio and Lee Westwood can bolt and make millions of dollars, think about the guys that know they can beat Serio and Lee week in and week out. That's Stage 2 here. If the competition is thin, and the money is outrageous, the big names will follow. Especially the Top 10-50 that may or may not have already won Majors, that know they'll never come close to winning 18. I'm making the numbers up here, but, they can go make $25M guaranteed by playing a very limited schedule. Or, they can grind away all year long playing snooze Tournaments trying to accumulate FedEx Cup points, in hopes of qualifying for the FedEx Cup Championship, that nets them significantly less than $25M. That's the carrot dangling here.

I don't think the viewership will be there to get the top guys and their endorsements to go to the other league. Winnings aren't the whole financial equation and potentially reducing your brand will be a huge risk.

Plenty of endorsements...I know that for sure

powerbelly said:

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I don't think the viewership will be there to get the top guys and their endorsements to go to the other league. Winnings aren't the whole financial equation and potentially reducing your brand will be a huge risk.

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I believe you're drastically underestimating what guaranteed millions means to PGA players for just showing up. To play in less tournaments. Viewership doesn't matter to the players. The Saudi's have F you money and it appears they are willing to spend it to get the players to play in the tournaments.

The top 10ish PGA players may not bolt for the league but I guarantee you their will be a lot of others on the tour who will. Not to mention the younger guys out of college and brand new pro's, they will bolt if offered.

Endorsements are critical in the PGA model. However, I look at the LIV model as guaranteed money, without the endorsements. LIV endorsements would be gravy on top of the massive amount these guys would get just to peg it up and play a couple of Cut-Free rounds of Tournament Golf. They're not going to need the PGA endorsements. I want the PGA to succeed, but they've got to adapt to the disrupter. I don't think PGA ban deterrence will be enough to counter the crazy money being thrown around. LIV just offered an Amateur ~$825K to play 8 events. Think about the mental ripple effect that has on guys that know they can beat that Amateur every day of the week.

I'm anxious to see how this affects the Euro Ryder Cup teams. Sergio is the all time points winner and Westwood has played in like 9 or so and is slated to be a Capt soon. All we ever hear about is how much it means to Europe to win and play in the RC and here are two guys who have been stalwarts on the teams bolting for the Saudi League with the threat of banishment hanging over them.

98Ag99Grad said:

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I'm anxious to see how this affects the Euro Ryder Cup teams. Sergio is the all time points winner and Westwood has played in like 9 or so and is slated to be a Capt soon. All we ever hear about is how much it means to Europe to win and play in the RC and here are two guys who have been stalwarts on the teams bolting for the Saudi League with the threat of banishment hanging over them.

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My guess is they think that the powers-that-be behind the Euro team won't have the stones to blackball them when push comes to shove. Looks like we're about to find out who's right.

AustinCountyAg said:

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Similar to what the article references it is amazing how everyone wants to blackball these pro golfers for going to play in a league with ties to the Saudi's. However, so much of professional sports are directly tied to the Chinese. It's ridiculous the hypocrisy.

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The political part is cover. The real issue is the Saudis don't need this thing to actually make money and have an endless supply of it. If they are doing this in an attempt to improve their standing in the world and don't care about the money, they can lose ungodly sums in perpetuity and not care. The PGA doesn't have that luxury. That's what has them terrified and taking a hard stance.

Not sure if this is still how they have it structured but the sponsors were already secured for each pod/team of players. On its original creation/plan Spieth could drop AT&T and make more money going to Saudi. They get guaranteed money even if they place dead last and they still get to play in the majors. PGA countered but amending/increasing pay outs and changing fall/winter schedule and changing g FedEx cup points schedule. This made some guys back off Saudi...we will see what happens

t - cam said:

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J. Peterman said:

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Wouldn't be so sure

Phil Mickelson Had Gambling Losses of $40 Million From 2010-14, According to Biographer https://t.co/uCqWy3rpmZ

— Bob Harig (@BobHarig) May 5, 2022

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40 mil over 5 years where he brought in 250 million.

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The lifestyle he lived and is hoping to maintain is expensive. When he signed the lifetime Callaway deal it was widely rumored he was cash poor due to his lavish spending and gambling debts.

The saudi's can throw endless $$$ down a hole, but at the end of the day, no one is gonna watch these has-beens. Eventually after no one is watching for long enough, even the saudi's will tire of burning $$$ and pull the plug. This will be like the original USFL, except instead of having 22 year old Jim Kelly, it will have 42 year old Jim Kelly.

Fore Left! said:

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The saudi's can throw endless $$$ down a hole, but at the end of the day, no one is gonna watch these has-beens. Eventually after no one is watching for long enough, even the saudi's will tire of burning $$$ and pull the plug. This will be like the original USFL, except instead of having 22 year old Jim Kelly, it will have 42 year old Jim Kelly.

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The best players in the world aren't going to stand by and watch has beens and average players out gain them.

So that's why they are flocking to this?

PGA has played the perfect combo of pot sweetening and hardball

Fore Left! said:

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So that's why they are flocking to this?

PGA has played the perfect combo of pot sweetening and hardball

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They will.

t - cam said:

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Fore Left! said:

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So that's why they are flocking to this?

PGA has played the perfect combo of pot sweetening and hardball

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They will.

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Once they see a scrub like Robert Garrigus making all this money just for showing up, they'll give the finger to the PGA Tour and join the Saudi league.

A lot of these guys already had one foot out of the door before Mickelson sabotaged it by opening his big fat mouth.

It's gonna be interesting. It's one thing to say you have no interest when it's merely hypothetical. It's something else when you watch the Robert Garriguses of the world make $15 mill a year.

mavsfan4ever said:

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I don't see it. The top players are set for life on the pga tour and can make millions upon millions from endorsements and earnings for 20+ years and chase history as well. I don't see them jumping.

Sure, it'll be tempting. But what if they jump and then the Saudi league shuts down after 1-2 years? They just royally ****ed themselves. That's why I don't think the top players will move. Making bank for 1-2 years is worth it for middling players but not for top players who make a ton in endorsements and earnings already.

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I think both leagues will exist.

t - cam said:

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mavsfan4ever said:

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I don't see it. The top players are set for life on the pga tour and can make millions upon millions from endorsements and earnings for 20+ years and chase history as well. I don't see them jumping.

Sure, it'll be tempting. But what if they jump and then the Saudi league shuts down after 1-2 years? They just royally ****ed themselves. That's why I don't think the top players will move. Making bank for 1-2 years is worth it for middling players but not for top players who make a ton in endorsements and earnings already.

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I think both leagues will exist.

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Sure, it it becomes clear that the pga tour will (or has to) allow them to play on the Saudi tour then I agree with you. But until that time, I don't see top players jumping. And I don't see that happening anytime soon. If it's in the court system, it'll be a long time before they get any resolution.

Fore Left! said:

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The saudi's can throw endless $$$ down a hole, but at the end of the day, no one is gonna watch these has-beens. Eventually after no one is watching for long enough, even the saudi's will tire of burning $$$ and pull the plug. This will be like the original USFL, except instead of having 22 year old Jim Kelly, it will have 42 year old Jim Kelly.

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.

You're thinking short term. If they young studs flock to the league now and if one the PGA nobody will wanna watch a bunch of has beens on that tour ten years from now.

Essentially if the Saudi League does get going and fork out the cash as rumored the PGA will have to swallow their pride and somehow work out a way for them to coexist.

PGA not giving waivers for the first tournament.

Golf Digest Article

how long until this goes to court?

This is getting interesting. Its also prime opportunity for someone to completely disrupt golf entertainment.

This isn't going to make the many players that have taken issue with the pga tour controlling their rights. Even those that pledged to the tour aren't going to like this.

98Ag99Grad said:

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Golf Digest Article

how long until this goes to court?

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Considering the PGA and European tour have played nice trading players and allowing co-play, I'd imagine pretty quickly. Can't allow players to play Dubai and black ball them for this.

PGA needs to put up or shut up. Money talks. Money whip the players to keep em or stfu. Tour players aren't employees.

PGAT getting more defensive:

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/pga-tour-u-changes-eligibility-rules-regarding-nonapproved-unranked-pro-events

🗣️ "I do not answer to Saudi Arabia, I do not answer to MBS."

Chief Executive of LIV Golf Greg Norman says that LIV Golf Investments is independent and will not answer to the Saudi government or Mohammed bin Salman Al Saud. pic.twitter.com/H7fKGBTuT4

— Sky Sports News (@SkySportsNews) May 10, 2022

mavsfan4ever said:

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I don't see it. The top players are set for life on the pga tour and can make millions upon millions from endorsements and earnings for 20+ years and chase history as well. I don't see them jumping.

Sure, it'll be tempting. But what if they jump and then the Saudi league shuts down after 1-2 years? They just royally ****ed themselves. That's why I don't think the top players will move. Making bank for 1-2 years is worth it for middling players but not for top players who make a ton in endorsements and earnings already.

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Guaranteed money is guaranteed. Now. There is NO guarantee they will have a 20 year career. You have to plan today for the possibilities of tomorrow.

I'm curious how many top 100 players will head to the LIV? I'm thinking 30ish

They opened the PGA apparel store yesterday at Southern Hills and I was surprised to find they had a section there with Greg Norman's Shark merchandise..With all the dust up I figured no way you'd see his stuff at the PGA…