Saudi Golf League

276,337 Views | 3963 Replies | Last: 9 mo ago by AgLA06
98Ag99Grad
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AG
So this thing seems to be picking-up steam. Lots of rumors that some big names like Bryson, DJ, Phil, Westwood may be a part of it. Bryson has shot it down but it keeps hanging out there. Morikawa came out yesterday and said he was staying on the PGA tour and Rory has been strongly against it. Article I read last night said they would have 10-12 tournaments, 40 man fields and no cut with huge purses. Also read they would play those tourneys plus the Masters, US Open, and British. Kramer Hickock claims 17 guys have already signed- League

What does everyone think of this? I would be shocked if a player in his prime left for this but damn, that's a lot of money they're throwing out there.
powerbelly
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AG
I doubt I will watch.
AustinCountyAg
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I can see some of the old's (Phil) doing it, combined with some EU guys such a Poults, Willet, Stenson.

I don't think any top 50 player in the world in his 20's/30's would do it? But who the F knows. Too many question marks out there right now.
jonj101
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I find the self righteous talking heads and their indignation of the Saudi tour annoying. If someone wants to go, fine they go. If someone doesn't, fine they don't.

All this talk about how dirty the money and the government is, is virtue signaling. If you dig deep enough every dollar in circulation is attached to some dirt. It's all about how much corruption one can tolerate.
KBAGOLFER
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Bunch of has beens except DJ, but their not getting in the majors if the play in this league, it's guaranteed
powerbelly
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AG
KBAGOLFER said:

Bunch of has beens except DJ, but their not getting in the majors if the play in this league, it's guaranteed
Why? The PGA controls exactly one major.
98Ag99Grad
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AG
They could play in all but the PGA.
TexAgs1992
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jonj101 said:

I find the self righteous talking heads and their indignation of the Saudi tour annoying. If someone wants to go, fine they go. If someone doesn't, fine they don't.

All this talk about how dirty the money and the government is, is virtue signaling. If you dig deep enough every dollar in circulation is attached to some dirt. It's all about how much corruption one can tolerate.

This x1000. I'm in the camp of the Saudi Golf League being certainly funded by dirty money but so is every corporation and league if you want to go down a rabbit hole. It's made a lot of my favorite podcasts unbearable to not call out the hypocrisy elsewhere including the PGA Tour.
Cavender Neutze
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The difference here, to me, is that the PGA TOUR does do a ton of good. Meanwhile these guys who leave will be paid solely for the purpose of presenting a front to the world that they are hoping/betting the world buys.

Personally think there will be low interest in it anyway. Golfers and golf fans tend to care about the history and prestige of an event more than I would bet the Saudis think. What I don't know though is what the viewing interest might be in other parts of the world.
Quinn
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98Ag99Grad
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Euro tour has threatened to pull Ryder Cup captaincy opportunities to anyone who signs. I know they told Stenson that and if Westwood and Poulter were to sign, woo buddy. It's getting interesting.
DannyDuberstein
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There's dirty money, then there is gross human rights violations level of dirty. As a sidenote, big corporate in this country tends to be clean because it's a constant target of trial lawyers looking to make a buck and big govt. Too expensive and risky not to be clean. Obviously there are exceptions, but it's more likely to be small companies where you find the dirt.

Tournaments with smaller fields also tend to be less interesting. More chance for runaways
ajcastil18
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It's also pretty annoying how the players that are jumping ship don't just come out and say what it is. Instead, they invent these "grievances" so they can point to that being the reason instead of the huge amounts of cash that is being given to them.
Famous Shoes
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98Ag99Grad said:

They could play in all but the PGA.
The PGA Championship is run and owned by the PGA of America not the PGA Tour. They could play in all the majors.
98Ag99Grad
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AG
Report I saw ruled that one out. Other 3 were ok.
Marauder Blue 6
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Drako Mallfoy said:

98Ag99Grad said:

They could play in all but the PGA.
The PGA Championship is run and owned by the PGA of America not the PGA Tour. They could play in all the majors.


IIRC, there's no obligation for the Masters to invite anyone.
rhtexfish
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AG
I haven't paid enough attention, are they going to play all over the world including US?

Is the PGA going to do anything to sweeten the pot for the guys that stay?
txislandag86
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rhtexfish said:

I haven't paid enough attention, are they going to play all over the world including US?

Is the PGA going to do anything to sweeten the pot for the guys that stay?
jj9000
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AG
Money talks.

The PGA has an opportunity to counter, and if they hedge their bets on deterrence by threatening a PGA ban, I think they'll play the wrong card.

History is great and all, but when life-changing money gets thrown around, the awe and mystique of the Ben Hogans and traditions get thrown out the window.

We're going to find out if players care more about guaranteeing the security of their livelihoods, or, having an opportunity to win on the PGA...and maybe...if the cards fall correctly...securing a portion of their livelihoods.

Rory/Tiger...etc...don't need the money. But for every Rory, there's 50 Tom Hoges...and a fresh new generation that wants to get paid.

EMY92
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That's the issue, the Saudi tour will need the guys that have already earned the life changing money to draw interest.

Nobody is going to care if it's a bunch of guys who haven't done it already.
JCA1
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AG
Saudi money is almost limitless. Looks like the PGA views this as a literal fight for its life with the threat to permanently expel anyone who joins the new league. I suspect they (and probably the Euro tour) will lean on the Majors to not allow a player to gain major eligibility on this tour. No idea how the majors would respond. This is going to get very interesting.
jj9000
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EMY92 said:

That's the issue, the Saudi tour will need the guys that have already earned the life changing money to draw interest.

Nobody is going to care if it's a bunch of guys who haven't done it already.


They're playing the long game. It doesn't really matter who they pull at first. Perception matters. If the career journeymen go over there and pull down $50M, the superstars will follow the money. The first draw is in some sense irrelevant. Once the money starts to get thrown around, the threat of a PGA ban is marginalized, and the bigger names follow. Again...money talks. Maybe not on the 1st or 2nd pull...but money will bring the big names.

jonj101
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DannyDuberstein said:

There's dirty money, then there is gross human rights violations level of dirty. As a sidenote, big corporate in this country tends to be clean because it's a constant target of trial lawyers looking to make a buck and big govt. Too expensive and risky not to be clean. Obviously there are exceptions, but it's more likely to be small companies where you find the dirt.

Tournaments with smaller fields also tend to be less interesting. More chance for runaways

This will probably end in an 'agree to disagree' discussion, but I respectfully think the contrary.

Saudi Golf Tour WInner > Greg Norman/LIV investments > Saudi coffers > Saudi government with human rights abuses/corruption

PGA Tour player > Nike sponsorship > China manufacturing > China government with Uyghur slaves/human rights abuses

Even if that flow isn't 100% accurate, the general point is there is dirt there.

This concept of blatant or gross violations versus a sanitized image or overlooking of corruption is hypocritical in my view. As mentioned before, if you go down the rabbit hole you'll find dirt attached to anything.

Big corporate tends to have the resources and connections to maintain a clean image better than smaller companies - and Americans, in general, are more concerned about the image than the details. And while I'm not saying there are an abundance of Fortune 500 executives chopping up diplomats in back rooms, there is all types of underhanded corruption and skirting of laws that big companies do on a regular basis - which they will continue to do as long as they can get away with it.

It all comes down to what an individual can tolerate.
aggiedent
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AG
I listened to an interview with an R & A official who said those that join it, would not have status on the World Tour and might not receive points for the World Golf Rankings, and ultimately as their ranking dropped would not be eligible for majors.
Quinn
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AG
https://twitter.com/AlanShipnuck/status/1494315860806176776?s=20&t=8ZlcVOQs4Fn_jkqRXITjSA
AustinCountyAg
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jj9000 said:

Money talks.

The PGA has an opportunity to counter, and if they hedge their bets on deterrence by threatening a PGA ban, I think they'll play the wrong card.

History is great and all, but when life-changing money gets thrown around, the awe and mystique of the Ben Hogans and traditions get thrown out the window.

We're going to find out if players care more about guaranteeing the security of their livelihoods, or, having an opportunity to win on the PGA...and maybe...if the cards fall correctly...securing a portion of their livelihoods.

Rory/Tiger...etc...don't need the money. But for every Rory, there's 50 Tom Hoges...and a fresh new generation that wants to get paid.


This. Your have the top 10 players in the world who arguably are in it for the history, chance to break records, etc. But for the 99% of other professional golfers it's a job. Most people when looking for a job would like the idea of guaranteed money. Especially BIG money.

It is going to be interesting to see what happens. What would you rather watch? The PGA John Deere, or a tournament on a badass course, with elite players in a limited field playing for BIG bucks?


Maybe someone can chime in and provide details, but why are the players having to pick and choose? Why isn't dual membership being allowed?
DannyDuberstein
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AG
If they don't get world ranking points, they will in short order get frozen out of other events. And at some point, it becomes no longer interesting. And when it's no longer interesting, that endless Saudi money starts to dry up. That is going to be the stick here
AustinCountyAg
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Any wagers on who any of the 20 players are????

Here are the guys I could see agreeing....Jason Day, Poults, Willet, DJ, Oostuhiezen, Fitzpatrick, Patrick Reed, Thomas Pieters, Westwood, Sergio, Bubba, Robert Macintyre, Matt Jones, Stenson, Aphibarnrat, Victor Dubinson, Andrew Beef Johnson, Haotong Li, Eddie Pepperel, Kokrak

Left out Phil...I dont think he goes. I think he's just stirring up **** to try and get PGA players paid more.
98Ag99Grad
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AG
Here's another article with more details:

Saudi League

Talking about the money, they have $580 billion in backing since its basically the Saudi government. Refers to this as "sportswashing"; when a shady government uses sports to help clean-up its image.
jonj101
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More details and links can be provided, but the powers that be in golf are drawing a line in the sand.

If you have a perspective of say, a Phil, you may see the tours as trying to have their cake and eat it to. Golfers pretty much function as independent contractors and their images, media, etc. when competing in a tour event are basically owned or controlled by the tour.

On the other hand, you could view this tour as a disruptor that will undermine the legacy of golf events and do the opposite of growing the game, while also being backed by an oppressive and bloody government. The established major tours see it as a direct threat to their existence.

Plus with Greg Norman leading it, I'd imagine there is still some sore history concerning the WGC events back in the day, and he is probably all too excited to stick it to the tour.
jja79
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I would absolutely rather watch the John Deere. The last 3 weeks with List, Hoge and Scottie S. winning have been great. Every guy who plays on the PGA Tour is incredible. If some of the players want to go to this new league have at it. None of my business but I don't feel sorry for any of them.

List and Hoge are journeymen and have won $11MM and $10MM respectively. Add in sponsor money and it's better than what most people their ages have done. Kelly Kraft is the epitome of journeyman and he's made $5MM between the PGA and KF tours. Pretty good for #656 in OWGR.

I do not feel one bit sorry for any of them. Phil's comments honestly were insulting. Have a little perspective on audience you're playing too.
powerbelly
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AustinCountyAg said:

jj9000 said:

Money talks.

The PGA has an opportunity to counter, and if they hedge their bets on deterrence by threatening a PGA ban, I think they'll play the wrong card.

History is great and all, but when life-changing money gets thrown around, the awe and mystique of the Ben Hogans and traditions get thrown out the window.

We're going to find out if players care more about guaranteeing the security of their livelihoods, or, having an opportunity to win on the PGA...and maybe...if the cards fall correctly...securing a portion of their livelihoods.

Rory/Tiger...etc...don't need the money. But for every Rory, there's 50 Tom Hoges...and a fresh new generation that wants to get paid.


This. Your have the top 10 players in the world who arguably are in it for the history, chance to break records, etc. But for the 99% of other professional golfers it's a job. Most people when looking for a job would like the idea of guaranteed money. Especially BIG money.

It is going to be interesting to see what happens. What would you rather watch? The PGA John Deere, or a tournament on a badass course, with elite players in a limited field playing for BIG bucks?


Maybe someone can chime in and provide details, but why are the players having to pick and choose? Why isn't dual membership being allowed?
John Deere every time. I have no interest in limited field events with guys just cashing checks.

The fun of golf is watching a kid get his first win, or a career journeyman qualify for his first masters.
98Ag99Grad
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AG
If they get a majority of the guys rumored- Reed, Scott, Westwood, Fleetwood, Poulter, DJ, Phil, Bubba, etc and they play a course I've never seen, yes I'll watch that over a regular PGA event with a bunch of "no names". If they do some form of team formats that have been rumored I'd watch that too. Again, just depends who is in the field.
Aggie369
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Getting some info from current tour players that have current offers

Big name guys are definitely going to jump, they are setting teams and "team captains"... some guys are being offered equity. They have A, B, C, and D players for each team. Those designations are based off of world rankings. If they leave the tour they can still play in all 4 majors. No cuts, last place is guaranteed 100k pay check. They also get a contract for 3 years to play then things can go to "relegation" and teams can get new guys. The team aspect is similar to formula 1....they still compete individually but there will be a team component with points as well.

One benefit is that the players that will join will be highly ranked so the guys on Saudi tour will earn a lot of world ranking points when competing.

I'm sure I'm forgetting some stuff....somethings can't be shared because non disclosures have been signed but this thing sounds like it's happening and lots of money on the table. There is some info about the teams that can't be shared but everything I've heard sounds pretty cool.

Will be interesting to see how PGA responds to counter. Telling them they will be banned isn't gonna phase most of these people. PGA up the pay? PGA cut down to 50 player events? PGA not give away so much money to charity? PGA just becomes the new korn ferry tour?

It could all collapse and never happen but it looks like there is enough interest and $$ that it's gonna be a thing
AustinCountyAg
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I agree with both of yall in regards to the John Deere tournament comment I made. I love watching golf, and seeing underdogs compete. However, does the casual, limited golf fan? That's who this league is betting on I would assume? Personally, I would watch both leagues considering when I am able to change my TV's off of Bluey it is usually to the golf channel.

Who the F knows?
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