Stagecoach said:

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It isn't going to Bluejack, which doesn't even have a member locker room or clubhouse at this point. Never mind the fact that it is far, far too easy of a course and in BFE. The comment about 40 under is no joke.

It isn't going to Carlton Woods, which is the only course near The Woodlands that is worthy, because the membership doesn't want it and it's now member owned.

It isn't going to Champions, because despite its nostalgia value it's just really average in good years, the greens are goofed up and small and the facilities are sub-par.

It isn't going anywhere in Fort Bend Co. because it's too far from the airport and won't draw crowds.

It isn't going to Memorial Park because , well it's a muni that will never again draw a respectable field and no one believes the city of Houston is capable of running a high caliber golf event.

I played the tournament course yesterday on the Sunday tournament pins and six of the Sunday tee boxes. Pretty good warm up for someone headed to Augusta if you ask me and they have the space to host the event. That is the best Venue I can imagine for The PGA in Houston. Too bad Escalante can't make it work financially. The club membership needs to double in order to make the tournament course private and survive a low revenue summer when the tourney course should be closed completely.

So really, there are no good options on the table unless a bigger sponsor can take the financial burden away from the Host course and make it a profitable affair year round. For the city of Houston to attempt to bankroll that commitment is pure hubris by the mayor. City needs a lot more things to pump in $15-20M ANNUALLY.

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Great post and agree on almost all counts.

Lakeside CC, Shadowhawk and Carlton Woods seem to be three logical ideas from a "course" perspective (each has hosted a US Open Sectional) but each can be thrown out due to various factors. Champions could be sprinkled into that mix too.

Memorial Park wouldn't work without some crazy $$$.

GC of Houston is by far the best option taking all factors into account.

Deluxe said:

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Great post and agree on almost all counts.

Lakeside CC, Shadowhawk and Carlton Woods seem to be three logical ideas from a "course" perspective (each has hosted a US Open Sectional) but each can be thrown out due to various factors. Champions could be sprinkled into that mix too.

Memorial Park wouldn't work without some crazy $$$.

GC of Houston is by far the best option taking all factors into account.

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I have never been to Lakeside but grew up in that general area and went to school with a bunch of members. What would be the major dings against it? Just not enough space to accommodate that type of crowd I'm guessing?

Wycliffe_03 said:

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Deluxe said:

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Great post and agree on almost all counts.

Lakeside CC, Shadowhawk and Carlton Woods seem to be three logical ideas from a "course" perspective (each has hosted a US Open Sectional) but each can be thrown out due to various factors. Champions could be sprinkled into that mix too.

Memorial Park wouldn't work without some crazy $$$.

GC of Houston is by far the best option taking all factors into account.

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I have never been to Lakeside but grew up in that general area and went to school with a bunch of members. What would be the major dings against it? Just not enough space to accommodate that type of crowd I'm guessing?

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I actually think there might be enough space out there (not an ideal "TPC" type design from a fan perspective but not terrible). And Westside Tennis Club has hosted ~5-10k person events just around the block. My inclination is that the membership is somewhat exclusive and they wouldn't want the club closing down for a couple weeks + all the distractions, but I could be wrong.

Lol, not anymore we don't. But we do have an NCAA event thats growing each year.

Champions was asked to host it for two years, beginning next year till they settle on new location. Was turned down due to two factors: over seeding not gonna happen at Champions and women's US Open in 2020 already booked at Champions. The word then (months back) was that it was moving to Memorial. And by Champions hosting it, Memorial would have two years to prepare their course. Not sure what happened after being turned down by Champions. I recently asked around at Champions if Memorial is a done deal and if the plan is still for another course to host the next two years. Was told nobody knows??? So yes, Memorial was in the discussion months back. As for the greens being too small at Champions, take a look at Cypress Creek no.7 green, it's approx. 60/70 yards deep!

Reading that Champions has small greens raised my eyebrow as well. They are MONSTERS, unless something dramatic has happened lately.

Yea. I heard a story of a pro hitting his drive to the same spot on No. 7 back to back days. Had 9 iron in one day, 5 iron in the next.

IMHO I find GC of Houston to be a more challenging track compared to Lakeside. I love LCC, it's a great course... members could be open to it. But take my opinion with a grain of salt, I haven't ever played the tips... and it's been a few years since I played from the men's (but being a lady does have it's advantages).

I agree that GC of Houston is better.

When they've played the US Open Sectionals at Lakeside, I think 7-9 under has been in the mix to qualify. But I suppose the best of the best could shred it up.

Troutslime said:

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Quote:

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t isn't going to Champions, because despite its nostalgia value it's just really average in good years, the greens are goofed up and small and the facilities are sub-par

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Champions has small greens? Are you on crack?

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Typo, meant small, sub-par facilities. Greens are just goofy

Yes I have played it and hope to play it many, many more times. But it's too easy to score. 30 under is very realistic for a winner

Did they lose a couple of greens?

Rustys-Beef-o-Reeno said:

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Mr.Bond said:

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Rustys-Beef-o-Reeno said:

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I don't think it would be that big of problem, everyone would come down and play at blue jack

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Ok. If people thought the Woodlands was congested during the tournament...... Montgomery is a million times worse

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Sure it would be congested but you figure out how to make it work. Offsite parking, shuttles, one of this big train like things that the rodeo uses pulled with a Polaris.

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Pinehurst couldn't be more out in the middle of nowhere and they made it work for the US Open. We parked in a field and the bussed us to the course. It was incredibly easy.

Goose said:

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They make Pinehurst work because it's Pinehurst.

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The US Open may have a bit to do with it also.

The issues with Memorial will not be access or getting folks too the course - that's fairly easy and Houston has a lot of large scale events the utilize remote parking/busing.

The issue at hand is how to handle people on the property.

The HGA took a hard look at Memorial in the 2001 time frame when they were looking to leave The Woodlands and determined that the course couldn't handle to tournament and all of the infrastructure that goes with it.

The tournament is a good bit bigger from an event standpoint now than it was 15 years ago, so that point remains an even bigger issue.

The course could be made "Tour Ready" given money and time but it still won't be able to handle the spectators and hospitality.

If they are serious about memorial it will have to close for at least a year if not more to upgrade the course to one make it championship ready and to allow for patron access and tournament logistics.
Your talking about a course that gets 66,000 rounds a year at an average of $35 per plus the driving range which is a huge money maker as well.

Yep - I think its the only Houston muni that is actually profitable.

It is an almost certainty that it is Memorial. Something would have to go wrong. They have wanted it there for years. Their sponsor they are courting wants it there as well.

Mark my words, if the tournament goes to memorial we will be LUCKY to get 2 top 20 players

jonj101 said:

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Yep - I think its the only Houston muni that is actually profitable.

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Is it true that it's the second most trafficked muni in the nation next to Torrey Pines?

Not uncommon to roll up there solo at 4pm and still have to wait an hour or more to get squeezed in. Seems to do insanely well. Also I would think they average over $35 per player. It's like $28 to go walk 9-10 holes in the evening.

Yea, for the amount of rounds (I've heard 2nd and 3rd most played) it's pretty good shape.

I was being conservative on $35 per. Probably closer to $45 or so.

Mr.Bond said:

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Mark my words, if the tournament goes to memorial we will be LUCKY to get 2 top 20 players

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I agree. But as someone who loves to walk that course at least several times a month during all seasons, my main concern is that it is going to suck when they close it down for the better part of a year and/or have chunks of it shut down constantly.

I'd selfishly rather just not have a PGA event in Houston if it means I can continue playing.

jja79 said:

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I'd hate for the field to be so weak Matt Jones or Jim Herman might win.

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Maybe Jeff mAGgert could make some doh.

jja79 said:

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I'd hate for the field to be so weak Matt Jones or Jim Herman might win.

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Ehh I mean I understand what you're saying but we had like 5 of the top 10 players in the world at the shell

Wycliffe_03 said:

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Mr.Bond said:

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Mark my words, if the tournament goes to memorial we will be LUCKY to get 2 top 20 players

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I agree. But as someone who loves to walk that course at least several times a month during all seasons, my main concern is that it is going to suck when they close it down for the better part of a year and/or have chunks of it shut down constantly.

I'd selfishly rather just not have a PGA event in Houston if it means I can continue playing.

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Ditto, I consider it my home course since I play there most often. Would like to see it made all nice and stuff but would miss playing it.

There have been some odd winners, but that doesn't change the fact that there have consistently been many of the top players in the world at the SHO. That won't continue.

Which is why my youngest son, middle son and 6 of his former college baseball teammates are headed for our annual Valero trip next week. It's much easier to get access to the hospitality venues. We don't really care if Briney Baird is leading.

This RBC Heritage field is exactly what we will get in Houston if this tournament goes to memorial

Mr.Bond said:

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This RBC Heritage field is exactly what we will get in Houston if this tournament goes to memorial

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Agreed.

And while Matt Jones and Jim Herman may not be household names, there's little doubt they can play: the runners up those years were Henrik Stenson (by one stroke) and Jordan Spieth (playoff).

Heck, Danny Willett still isn't a household name, but he managed to outlast a pretty solid field a year ago.