After 20 years of getting our asses kicked, it's past time to take a much more drastic change to the selection approach. We didn't send our best 12 this year, and there should be no excuse for that.
2014 Ryder Cup
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Last: 9 yr ago by 92TXAG
Even with Kirk and Horschel instead of Simpson and Mahan, I don't think we would have won. With that said, I'd love to see a re-vamp of our selection system.
The Ryder Cup was over when the players started complaining about not getting paid several years ago.
Wow, the press conference was AWKWARD. The look on Mahan's face as it goes on is great.
http://www.sbnation.com/golf/2014/9/28/6857737/phil-mickelson-tom-watson-comments-ryder-cup-captain-2014
http://www.sbnation.com/golf/2014/9/28/6857737/phil-mickelson-tom-watson-comments-ryder-cup-captain-2014
It's a lame excuse to blame the alternate shot. The team simply hasn't been mentally tough. And they just aren't good enough.
Keep your tee shot out of trouble.
Put your approach shot on the green.
Make some putts.
That formula works in stroke play, four ball, or alternate shot. Europe played good golf, USA didn't. Pretty simple really.
Keep your tee shot out of trouble.
Put your approach shot on the green.
Make some putts.
That formula works in stroke play, four ball, or alternate shot. Europe played good golf, USA didn't. Pretty simple really.
Loved that presser. Love seeing Watson torched. He's always struck me as a stick-up-his-ass, holier-than-thou jackass. Perfect example was when he was lobbing grenades at Tiger over his indescretions after Watson had a big one of his own. And that tweet about him sums it up - "Rarely right but never in doubt."
What was Azinger's "pod system" that the link was talking about?
quote:
What was Azinger's "pod system" that the link was talking about?
Without getting too technical, he grouped guys in 4's and had them hang-out with one another and get to know each other better. I want to say it's based off some military style belief but I could be wrong. Anyway, he went on to write a book about it.
Is it just me or is a running joke for the U.S. to trot out the most hideous sweaters known to man. Seriously, it was three days of "bad sweater party." Would anyone wear those things if they weren't forced to?
Phil should have addressed the real issue. The guys who played, with just a couple of exceptions, weren't good at golf when it mattered.
Still think we lean far to heavily on the world golf rankings both to set expectations and for selections.
WGR are exceptionally flawed in that they reward success sometimes 18 months ago over failures 3 weeks ago.
In match play you want the hot hand. Yeah, that means some people get their butts hurt, but it's time to hurt some butts ags.
WGR are exceptionally flawed in that they reward success sometimes 18 months ago over failures 3 weeks ago.
In match play you want the hot hand. Yeah, that means some people get their butts hurt, but it's time to hurt some butts ags.
I agree with DannyDub , Tom Watson is an a-hole. I'd like to but him for how good he is and sell him for how good he thinks he is.
Wow so you two guys know him personally. Share some stories with us.
I don't know how good he thinks he is but I can tell you when. Look at his resume' I think he's plenty good.
I don't know how good he thinks he is but I can tell you when. Look at his resume' I think he's plenty good.
I didn't say he was a bad player. He was a great player. I said he was a sanctimonious dick and offered an example. Dogpiled Tiger and said he needed to come clean with a public interview. Of course, Tom had an alcohol abuse issue, ditched his wife, and swiped the wife of a fellow player - but refused to ever "come clean" or comment about it. That's just one example. He's a guy that has always been quick to jump on the high horse.
quote:
Phil should have addressed the real issue. The guys who played, with just a couple of exceptions, weren't good at golf when it mattered.
I agree. Maybe the pod system is the best system in the world to use.................fine. Yet to me, what Phil said was essentially that the US professional golfers can't get get up for, nor play their best at, the Ryder Cup without using gimmicks.
I think they are grasping at straws to deflect blame. Sorry guys, but Europe is just better than you.
Just re-listened to Phil's comments:
1. I call complete BS in everything he said. In my opinion he is pissed that he sat out on Saturday and his ego took a mighty blow.
2. Phil has a losing record in the Ryder Cup all-time. If the team was full of players like him, then we would lose every year. Overall he is 16-19-6. That includes this year.
3. Phil actually had one of his better Ryder Cups this year. He went 2-1. So maybe Watson helped him play better.
4. Phil has been on 10 Ryder Cup Teams and the US is 2-8 during that time. Tom Watson did not lose the Ryder Cup, the players did. just like they have lost 8 of the last 10 he was involved with.
5. Was Tom Watson to play for the complete meltdown in 2012? Phil Lost his singles match in 2012. If Phil would have won, we would have won. He choked in Singles Play, along with the rest of the team.
6. Phil is all about his image, always has been. He got his panties in a wad when he was benched and had a little hissy fit in front of everyone. That was definitely not the time and place for such comments and just exposed him in my opinion.
1. I call complete BS in everything he said. In my opinion he is pissed that he sat out on Saturday and his ego took a mighty blow.
2. Phil has a losing record in the Ryder Cup all-time. If the team was full of players like him, then we would lose every year. Overall he is 16-19-6. That includes this year.
3. Phil actually had one of his better Ryder Cups this year. He went 2-1. So maybe Watson helped him play better.
4. Phil has been on 10 Ryder Cup Teams and the US is 2-8 during that time. Tom Watson did not lose the Ryder Cup, the players did. just like they have lost 8 of the last 10 he was involved with.
5. Was Tom Watson to play for the complete meltdown in 2012? Phil Lost his singles match in 2012. If Phil would have won, we would have won. He choked in Singles Play, along with the rest of the team.
6. Phil is all about his image, always has been. He got his panties in a wad when he was benched and had a little hissy fit in front of everyone. That was definitely not the time and place for such comments and just exposed him in my opinion.
Here is an article that explains the pod system.
http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/hi...-capture-ryder
http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/hi...-capture-ryder
How did Phil choke in his singles match in 2012? He was one up on Justin Rose heading into 16. He made a clutch par putt on 16, then came about an inch away from chipping in on 17. It's hard to beat the guy who makes putts of 8 feet, 35 feet and 15 feet on the final three holes. Stricker and Furyk choked. Mickelson just got beat by a great player who played amazing down the stretch. Gotta tip your cap to Rose.
No doubt Phil was a little butthurt about Saturday and that was a contributing factor in why he said what he said during the press conference, but I didn't mind his comments from a bigger picture lens. Something drastic needed to happen to get the Ted Bishop and the PGA of America to implement a comprehensive change in how we plan for, approach and pick teams for the Ryder Cup.
No doubt Phil was a little butthurt about Saturday and that was a contributing factor in why he said what he said during the press conference, but I didn't mind his comments from a bigger picture lens. Something drastic needed to happen to get the Ted Bishop and the PGA of America to implement a comprehensive change in how we plan for, approach and pick teams for the Ryder Cup.
There's no question it's mostly sour grapes from sitting Saturday afternoon. But he's rightfully sour. This year's cup was lost Saturday afternoon while one of their better players this weekend, Phil, sat.
Phil's record, while not impressive, is still better than Tiger's. The fact is that no good US long-time veterans have good records. So unless the player's record is God awful (ie Furyk), then it shouldn't have much bearing. Having Jimmy Walker spray the ball all over the course and miss short putts isn't the solution.
I don't think the pod system is a cure-all, but I do think the Euro's have had the edge on being a tighter knit team that plays loose and with confidence. And I think the pod comcept can help bring a little more of that to the US team.
Also, beyond the pod concept, the bigger issue seems that there was no input from the players on any decision. Doesn't seem like a logical approach if you want to put together a close, confident team. To ask players that have 100% control of their career and strategic decisions to surrender all of that control doesn't seem wise.
Phil's record, while not impressive, is still better than Tiger's. The fact is that no good US long-time veterans have good records. So unless the player's record is God awful (ie Furyk), then it shouldn't have much bearing. Having Jimmy Walker spray the ball all over the course and miss short putts isn't the solution.
I don't think the pod system is a cure-all, but I do think the Euro's have had the edge on being a tighter knit team that plays loose and with confidence. And I think the pod comcept can help bring a little more of that to the US team.
Also, beyond the pod concept, the bigger issue seems that there was no input from the players on any decision. Doesn't seem like a logical approach if you want to put together a close, confident team. To ask players that have 100% control of their career and strategic decisions to surrender all of that control doesn't seem wise.
It seems Watson was a poor communicator and either lacked a plan or didn't communicate it to the players. Based on Mickelson txting Watson begging to play Saturday afternoon, you'd think they'd have known the game plan going in. It sounds like that is one thing Azinger did well.
Azinger has some good quotes on this here.
The win/lose margin is tiny and having captains/co-captains the players trust makes a huge difference. Sounds like they didn't even discuss shot strategy with them. They should be using advanced analytics (like baseball) for pairings, figuring out who tees off on odd/even in fourman and have a game plan for the team events. It doesn't seem like that happened.
Azinger has some good quotes on this here.
The win/lose margin is tiny and having captains/co-captains the players trust makes a huge difference. Sounds like they didn't even discuss shot strategy with them. They should be using advanced analytics (like baseball) for pairings, figuring out who tees off on odd/even in fourman and have a game plan for the team events. It doesn't seem like that happened.
Wow, worth reading. http://www.cbssports.com/golf/eye-on-golf/24730630/the-united-states-had-a-tom-watson-problem
quote:
When asked on Sunday if he still thought he came to Scotland with a "winning philosophy," Watson responded "yes, absolutely."
Except nobody knows what the hell it was.
Did you see what Watson said about the Friday four-ball afternoon pairings after Bubba Watson and Webb Simpson got beat Friday morning?
"Well, they probably changed -- probably changed, obviously with Bubba, the afternoon pairings. Thought I would probably play Bubba twice, but it didn't work out that way."
When he was asked who he replaced Bubba with, Watson legitimately didn't know. The exact question: "Can you tell me who you replaced Bubba with?"
"Well, no -- I mean, it's just -- you know, from the beginning, you had some horses that you looked at, you were going to ride. When they don't perform, you have to make a decision not to play them, and that's what I did."
Huh?
Then Watson tried to absolve himself of all blame in the Sunday press conference by insinuating that the captain shouldn't carry the weight he does to begin with.
Euros have a cooler team with dudes that are confident they will beat us and we suck.
quote:
No doubt Phil was a little butthurt about Saturday and that was a contributing factor in why he said what he said during the press conference, but I didn't mind his comments from a bigger picture lens. Something drastic needed to happen to get the Ted Bishop and the PGA of America to implement a comprehensive change in how we plan for, approach and pick teams for the Ryder Cup.
Hear hear
Except I would've included an Oxford comma.
quote:
How did Phil choke in his singles match in 2012? He was one up on Justin Rose heading into 16.
That is exactly what I call a choke. Being up one going into 16 and losing. Choke.
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Phil's record, while not impressive, is still better than Tiger's.
1. What does Tiger have to do with anything here? Damn trying to spin this much.
2. Phil's Record not better than Tiger's
quote:
That is exactly what I call a choke. Being up one going into 16 and losing. Choke.
Uhhhhh no. Being one up through 16 and bogeying the last three would be a choke. Phil parred in. Rose knocked in a pair of birdie bombs on 17 and 18. Sometimes you gotta tip your cap. Don't let your hate of Mickelson stand in the way of what actually happened that day.
In match play, you play to win the holes not get par. He could have double bogeyed each hole an it is the same result. You don't play for par in match play. You either win the hole or lose it. He choked.
So if Rose had holed out from the fairway for eagle on 16, 17, and 18 and Mickelson had birdied each of 16, 17, and 18, that means Mickelson choked? Under your definition that would have been a choke. Obviously that is ridiculous. Mickelson got beat. He didn't choke.
quote:With that logic... had Phil gone birdie birdie birdie to finish... but Rose went eagle eagle eagle... you would still consider Phil a choker?
In match play, you play to win the holes not get par. He could have double bogeyed each hole an it is the same result. You don't play for par in match play. You either win the hole or lose it. He choked.
Just b/c Rose had 3 incredible holes, doesn't mean Phil choked.
In match play, you can lose a hole without playing it bad, the other guy can just play it better. In this case, Rose played those final 3 holes better.
quote:
1. What does Tiger have to do with anything here? Damn trying to spin this much.
2. Phil's Record not better than Tiger's
1) My point isn't to make this Tiger vs. Phil. My point is that the US team has lost enough that you aren't going to find any regular veterans with a good record. So I mention Tiger simply to illustrate that one of the best of all-time has a crap Ryder Cup record, and so to a certain point, you have to throw some of that out the window. No one would sit Tiger out for an entire day because of his all-time RC record, and I don't think that should have been the case with Phil either. Not to mention, he was good in this one and the last one, going 5-2.
2) Yes, it is. 16-19-6 vs. 13-17-3. Do the math yourself, but 19 points out of 41 tries is better than 14.5 points out of 33.
The worst choke at the 2012 Ryder Cup came from Zach Johnson and Jason Dufner on Saturday afternoon. They were 2-up heading into 13 and birdied 3 of their last 6 holes, but Poulter and McIlroy birdied their last six and Dufner/Johnson lost 1-down.
quote:
Just re-listened to Phil's comments:
1. I call complete BS in everything he said. In my opinion he is pissed that he sat out on Saturday and his ego took a mighty blow.
2. Phil has a losing record in the Ryder Cup all-time. If the team was full of players like him, then we would lose every year. Overall he is 16-19-6. That includes this year.
3. Phil actually had one of his better Ryder Cups this year. He went 2-1. So maybe Watson helped him play better.
4. Phil has been on 10 Ryder Cup Teams and the US is 2-8 during that time. Tom Watson did not lose the Ryder Cup, the players did. just like they have lost 8 of the last 10 he was involved with.
5. Was Tom Watson to play for the complete meltdown in 2012? Phil Lost his singles match in 2012. If Phil would have won, we would have won. He choked in Singles Play, along with the rest of the team.
6. Phil is all about his image, always has been. He got his panties in a wad when he was benched and had a little hissy fit in front of everyone. That was definitely not the time and place for such comments and just exposed him in my opinion.
yep; just shut up & play better golf than your competition...
finger pointing & excuses are not characteristic of either quality leadership or a winner's attitude; Phil got beat; the U.S. got beat; plain and simple...making it anything more than that is juvenile & weak
Was just coming to post that. Defin seems like Mickelson was trying to stand up to Watson and win support if his teammates.
Watson seems like a horrible captain, unable to relate to his players. I'd imagine Tiger could be similar in the future. Being a good captain is very little about being a good golfer and more about people manageme.
Watson seems like a horrible captain, unable to relate to his players. I'd imagine Tiger could be similar in the future. Being a good captain is very little about being a good golfer and more about people manageme.
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