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Charismatic Megafauna
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In reply to BaylorSpineGuy • 7:10a, 6/11/22
AG
BaylorSpineGuy said:
Wasn't aware an insurance would dump you if you break $1M? Bad trauma with funding can easily exceed $1M!

Ruptured aneurysm with 2 wk ICU stay, angiogram, coil embo and multiple services providing critical care. $1M is light.

I gamble with options, not with insurance haha.

Apparently obamacare eliminated the lifetime max. Before that i was thinking 5 or 6 mil would be the number, maybe 10 (neither number is anything i have to worry about so far), the math is pretty easy with the max and premiums to factor in. There's also the option of going to mexico if you need major stuff. With no more lifetime max it's hard to justify not having insurance. I have thought a lot about insurance and the minimum i can get away with because i think it's a racket, but I'm in the middle of negotiating a total loss payout after my car got stolen (i actually only had comprehensive kinda by accident) so I'm kind of reconsidering my stance, stuff happens....
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FrioAg 00
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In reply to Charismatic Megafauna • 7:48a, 6/11/22
AG
When lifetime max got banned, most plans just switched to an annual max.

You might be overthinking it though - as no providers are going after the individual for claims over $1m

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BaylorSpineGuy
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In reply to Farmer @ Johnsongrass, TX • 8:11a, 6/11/22
Curious if anyone knows if Medicaid retroactively pays the remainder of the bill that couldn't be afforded? Not sure the answer here and hence the question of who foots the bill?
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Charismatic Megafauna
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In reply to FrioAg 00 • 8:19a, 6/11/22
AG
FrioAg 00 said:


You might be overthinking it though - as no providers are going after the individual for claims over $1m


Interesting. That doesn't cover a situation where your have multiple major events though does it? A cancer relapse after several years, for example?
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Charismatic Megafauna
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In reply to aggiedaniel06 • 8:21a, 6/11/22
AG
aggiedaniel06 said:
It would take a voice call to explain this accurately in detail. It's a complex subject - where the money goes in an economy, when prices crash.

I'm sure it would go way over my head but I'd love to hear it if you're offering! Let me buy a star and I'll dm you
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Farmer @ Johnsongrass, TX
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In reply to Charismatic Megafauna • 8:45a, 6/11/22
Charismatic Megafauna said:
BaylorSpineGuy said:
Wasn't aware an insurance would dump you if you break $1M? Bad trauma with funding can easily exceed $1M!

Ruptured aneurysm with 2 wk ICU stay, angiogram, coil embo and multiple services providing critical care. $1M is light.

I gamble with options, not with insurance haha.

Apparently obamacare eliminated the lifetime max. Before that i was thinking 5 or 6 mil would be the number, maybe 10 (neither number is anything i have to worry about so far), the math is pretty easy with the max and premiums to factor in. There's also the option of going to mexico if you need major stuff. With no more lifetime max it's hard to justify not having insurance. I have thought a lot about insurance and the minimum i can get away with because i think it's a racket, but I'm in the middle of negotiating a total loss payout after my car got stolen (i actually only had comprehensive kinda by accident) so I'm kind of reconsidering my stance, stuff happens....
The agents I spoke to last Nov (they offered the Obamacare options) we covered lifetime max topic. Both stated that Obamacare (AHC Act) eliminated the lifetime max and continued the conversation with a "but" the lifetime max or annual max, whichever you prefer to use, once reached you shift to another plan. Paraphrasing, the agents stated, "yes, medical insurance wouldn't be denied once you reach lifetime max....it's just that most can't afford the medical insurance plan that you would move into". So yeah, medical insurance will be offered, but do you have the funds to pay the premiums.

My medical plan is with BCBS. Both agents I spoke to in Nov reviewed my plan. Both stated my plan was superior to what they could offer me. Both stated their "best" plan would cost me more and provide less coverage. My plan has a lifetime maximum. I don't know what plan comes after I would reach the max.

Back to the original question, how much investable wealth do you need to bypass medical insurance, maybe it's the FU $50M walk away money..
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Farmer @ Johnsongrass, TX
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In reply to BaylorSpineGuy • 8:56a, 6/11/22
BaylorSpineGuy said:
Curious if anyone knows if Medicaid retroactively pays the remainder of the bill that couldn't be afforded? Not sure the answer here and hence the question of who foots the bill?
Medicaid may go back and consider some items for payment, likely not. Medical bankruptcy would/should manage the rest of who gets paid and who doesn't. I can tell you this and I'd rather not get into the specifics, Stroger/Cook County and Parkland would handle the nonpayment/unpaid situation the same way. Let's just say, ultimately the taxpayer foots the bill.
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FrioAg 00
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In reply to BaylorSpineGuy • 8:59a, 6/11/22
AG
Medicaid is the payer of last resort, and the entire bill is subject.

Since Medicaid pays about 40% of what commercial insurance pays - you'd have to have total bill over $2.5m for Medicaid to come into play at all.
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FrioAg 00
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In reply to Farmer @ Johnsongrass, TX • 9:03a, 6/11/22
AG
This is correct - pretty much all high dollar claims (over $1m), anything a commercial insurance co isn't paying will ultimately get stuck to the taxpayer.

There are a bunch of different ways that happens, and it's crazy complicated.
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Bob Knights Paper Hands
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In reply to Farmer @ Johnsongrass, TX • 9:09a, 6/11/22
You could look into an umbrella liability coverage with a high deductible and then you'd be on the hook for anything that happens to your house, car, etc. For healthcare you could look at a high deductible coverage to lower premiums but keep you covered for anything huge. You could add a "dread disease" policy to help supplement cancer. Basically paying out of pocket for most things but still protecting from a single wealth crushing event.
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BaylorSpineGuy
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9:35a, 6/11/22
I do recall operating a lady for a spinal deformity about 17-18 mos ago. We did the operation in 2 stages two days apart. She spent a few days in the ICU and had no complications. She was discharged on POD 12/10 without issue and hasn't had to be readmitted up to now.

She called us a month after surgery and was confusing her EOB for our bill. Her EOB was > $1M. Consider such things.
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Farmer @ Johnsongrass, TX
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10:30a, 6/11/22
I retired early - 56. My choice. I planned for years. Pretty much everything I budgeted for is fairly accurate today and going forward. I knew medical insurance premiums would be high.

Actual annual premiums paid
2016 = $21,000
2017 = $23,674
2018 = $22,320
2019 = $26,760
2020 = $27,300
2021 = $29,088
2022 = $30,589 (to end of year)

Total = $180,731

I've got 3 years until Medicare, so I figure about another $100,000 to go.

That's $280,000.

Once on Medicare and continuing the medical insurance for wife & son, our annual premiums will continue in the area of $30,000 per year. There's not a large discount in premiums for my plan once I roll off to Medicare.

If you see where I'm going with this, I think there is a number a person can be at in investable wealth that could eliminate medical insurance and take on the risk. Maybe I'm off, but the numbers tell me there is a "push" and I have a goal to find that push number. I will likely not be able to use the "push" number, but maybe I can help someone else. My theory of $6M for an individual, $7M for a couple and $10M for a family I think is getting close. The $50M FU money may be the real answer.

If you are investing successfully, those premiums paid over the years could net some nice returns. Only if you plan to retire early should this be a consideration and you would have to be at the "number" of investable wealth before retiring and eliminating medical insurance. My tolerance for risk is high. Most of my career was in the arena of high risk. I have real comfort with debt and leverage.



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spud1910
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In reply to Farmer @ Johnsongrass, TX • 10:50a, 6/11/22
AG
I don't really have an answer for you, but do know someone who took a similar approach. The first nonfamily member to ever pay me for work was a very wealthy man. Started out with a cotton gin and eventually owned cattle, banks, a grocery store, nursing homes and real estate. Late in his life he was talking to my dad and said he "Didn't have any insurance because he had too much stuff to insure it all and it wasn't all going to go down at the same time anyway." I wasn't there for the conversation, so I don't know if he included health insurance in that statement or not.
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ProgN
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11:47a, 6/11/22


Getting the pump primed for today's game. Whoop!
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BrokeAssAggie
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In reply to ProgN • 12:08p, 6/11/22
Where did you buy that mix?
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ProgN
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In reply to BrokeAssAggie • 12:11p, 6/11/22
A friend of mine. His family makes it and it's really good. They have cucumber based and pineapple based. I love cucumbers so this is that one. I haven't tried the pineapple yet.
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Lake08
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12:18p, 6/11/22
Bought some aapl and goog calls on Friday. Hoping for a quick bounce Mon-tues. I don't like the direction overall, but at these prices, it's hard not to buy for the very short term
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FJ43
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12:55p, 6/11/22
The FJs

Rosemary Beach, FL

Let's go Schloss….




Wealth gained hastily will dwindle. but whoever gathers little by little will increase it.
Proverbs 13:11

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Ragoo
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In reply to FJ43 • 12:56p, 6/11/22
AG
Looks like a great spot to spend an afternoon
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Charismatic Megafauna
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In reply to spud1910 • 1:22p, 6/11/22
AG
I have considered paying my rental property off (need to anyway) and dropping to liability only. I have never filed a homeowner claim, am pretty resourceful, so the structure coverage is just for catastrophic, but if it got hit with a tornado i would probably get some fema money. I suppose it would be nice to have if it burned down... i keep high deductibles. Liability only on the boat (as a rider on my homeowner, it's nothing special...15k or so), i figure it's just a toy, if i screw it up it's gone
I have everything through the same insco as well as a 2M umbrella, in which I'm a big believer. My reasoning behind that is that in Houston you could have a stroke of bad luck and hit the wrong 2 cars or the wrong building or something and exceed 1M in damages pretty quick. 2M gets a bit harder. Then if you were to find yourself facing a claim for pain and suffering, 2M may not scratch the surface of what that could cost, but it will get the insco's full resources behind you to defend against it
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docaggie
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In reply to Farmer @ Johnsongrass, TX • 6:30p, 6/11/22
AG
Another guiding factor may be the attitude you and your spouse have regarding catastrophic events.
Generally, the majority of healthcare expenses occur in the last 6 months of life.

Some people insist on anything and everything that can be done, no matter the cost, no matter the quality of life. They spend weeks or even months fighting a losing battle with no quality of life.

Ultimately it comes down to what I, and others, have said before. Are you okay with losing 2M for a big event / prolonged care? If that doesn't phase you, then you've got enough money to have peace of mind. Just like with stocks / options. Are you okay with that option going to zero? What's your tolerance for the stock dipping in price?
Class of 1998;
Husband of an Aggie, Class of 1999;
Father to future Class of 2029 and 2031
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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Red Pear Luke (BCS)
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8:16p, 6/11/22
Sponsor
AG
My biggest concern in general is that we are about to see what 8%+ interest rates are about to do to the economy….

Feds number one goal is fighting inflation. There's going to be victims. I would be and currently am planning for SHTF type events. Cash and liquidity is going to be supreme. So is low interest costs on a fixed basis.

I'm sounding like I'm gonna need someone to pepper spray with some bear mace….
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$30,000 Millionaire
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8:47p, 6/11/22
AG
The world didn't end in the 80s and it won't end now.
You don’t trade for money, you trade for freedom.
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Farmer @ Johnsongrass, TX
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In reply to Red Pear Luke (BCS) • 9:57p, 6/11/22
Red Pear DFW Luke said:
My biggest concern in general is that we are about to see what 8%+ interest rates are about to do to the economy….

Feds number one goal is fighting inflation. There's going to be victims. I would be and currently am planning for SHTF type events. Cash and liquidity is going to be supreme. So is low interest costs on a fixed basis.

I'm sounding like I'm gonna need someone to pepper spray with some bear mace….
Cant speak for SHTF, but gas lines might be more frequent in some metro areas come July/Aug. Have a bud who fills up at COSTCO Eden Prairie, MN. Last Sunday he arrived at 10am and they open at 9am. He counted 84 vehicles in line. He left. He said 91 Octane was $5.05.

Today I filled up in SD. Here's the prices at the pump.
91 = $5.699
89 = $4.999
87 = $4.699
E55 = $3.199
E70 = $3.099

MSM stating analysts claiming demand destruction taking place due to price. Well, when you're short almost 3 million barrels of crude per day to make finish products (like gasoline)...it really doesn't matter if demand destruction exists cause there's less raws to make finished goods creating less by default. In this scenario, demand destruction would be welcomed. The journalist's will figure it out. It's all in the numbers.

Give me $10 per gallon at the pump and XOM at $150 and CVX at $230, a share. As FJB said, "Exxon made more money than God". Well,.....now let's take a look at Apple...oh, Forbes is on it. (Great article)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2022/06/11/exxon-made-more-money-than-god---but-far-less-than-apple/?sh=2484271b36ed

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$30,000 Millionaire
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11:18a, 6/12/22
AG
Everyone ready for 3800 this week?
You don’t trade for money, you trade for freedom.
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Charismatic Megafauna
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11:42a, 6/12/22
AG
So much fud right now, I'm guessing gap down, fear index hits low 20s tomorrow, we have a legenary bloody day, then power hour bear market rip to crush everybody who fomos into puts tomorrow. Maybe even close flat.

(This scenario would, coincidentally, make me a lot of money so if anybody has influence over this sort of thing I'd really appreciate it)
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BaylorSpineGuy
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In reply to Charismatic Megafauna • 12:03p, 6/12/22
OpEx this week. VIXperation Wednesday. Could get fun.
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Philip J Fry
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In reply to $30,000 Millionaire • 12:05p, 6/12/22
AG
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Philip J Fry
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In reply to $30,000 Millionaire • 12:06p, 6/12/22
AG
$30,000 Millionaire said:
The world didn't end in the 80s and it won't end now.


Just sucks trying to relocate now. Didn't take the housing market long to grind to a halt with the FED intervention.
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$30,000 Millionaire
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12:13p, 6/12/22
AG
I don't think I'd short from here.
You don’t trade for money, you trade for freedom.
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In reply to $30,000 Millionaire • 1:01p, 6/12/22
Jet Black
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1:58p, 6/12/22
Somebody please explain vixperation to me.
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Dan Scott
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4:45p, 6/12/22
AG
MSTR is going to be wild this week.
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$30,000 Millionaire
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In reply to [removed post] • 5:05p, 6/12/22
AG
I got it from "don't fade me" the Twitter user. He banished me but I used to be part of his circle.
You don’t trade for money, you trade for freedom.
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AgOutsideAustin
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In reply to $30,000 Millionaire • 5:18p, 6/12/22
AG
$30,000 Millionaire said:
Everyone ready for 3800 this week?


I sure am.
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