For this strategy I'd probably tend to do it on and ETF like SPY, QQQ, or ITM (if that last one has options). If you wanted something that may be somewhat diversified from the other two accounts you could see if there's a foreign stock ETF with options, maybe JPXN, VT, or VPL.

Tomas Hermensa said:

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For this strategy I'd probably tend to do it on and ETF like SPY, QQQ, or ITM (if that last one has options). If you wanted something that may be somewhat diversified from the other two accounts you could see if there's a foreign stock ETF with options, maybe JPXN, VT, or VPL.

---

Thanks for the response. Any reason in particular to head to an index or ETF? I'm not terribly risk averse with this money, if the price heads down on something I will just keep ringing the register on premiums while getting closer to net free on the original investment.

Tomas Hermensa said:

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tailgatetimer10 said:

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I know this is not the topic of the thread but:

Does anyone in here own rental properties? I'm trying to decide if I should rent vs sell my place.. And would like to discuss this topic with someone who trades stock, to get their thoughts. Most of my contacts and friends who own rentals do not actively trade or invest in stocks, so I am unable to have an unbiased discussion

---

I think owning or investing in RE rental property is an excellent place to put money so it's not all in the stock market. I have several RE Investments over the years and this past year I have been educating myself to begin purchasing my own rental properties.

Specific to your question: I would look at your metrics for grading a potential rental property opportunity, then do some DD on recent home sales and rental prices. For instance if you need monthly rent to be 1% or more of home cost to consider a rental purchase that would be a good place to start. You may also want to consider the fees and costs you'd pay if you sold (exclude taxes) as well as any costs incurred if you didn't sell (if not paid off would keeping that mortgage make the mortgage on your new house more expensive).
If financially it would be a good investment to buy as a rental house, I would consider keeping it. If it would not I would just sell it.

If it does make sense to keep from a financial perspective then you have to decide if it's worth it to you, assuming you don't have other rentals. Do you want to invest the time to get this rented, to set up rental agreement, deal with renters, and deal with maintenance items? For the first rental this can be a relatively sizeable time suck. On the other side it would be a great way to break in to the RE rental game and get experience with a home that you are familiar with.

TDLR: Maybe

---

This is a great and very detailed answer. Also the primary residence capital gains exemption is awesome and a big consideration if the house has appreciated considerably in the time you've owned it. About mid January i decided i had cracked the stock market game and thought about selling my investment property and just trading the proceeds. It's a rental that has appreciated a lot (like 4x) since I've owned it, and I've taken a lot of depreciation and other expenses on taxes, so if i sell it I'll have to pay a lot of that back, in addition to the capital gains since it has been too long since it was my primary residence. I also think it's got some more appreciation to go and I've been really fortunate with my renters/ rental experience, so I'm hanging onto it for now. All that said, im pretty sure it's underperforming... don't think it's returning 1% on the equity i have tied up in it after taxes, insurance,
maintenance etc., but it's pretty low stress most of the time, i replaced almost everything in it when i lived there so i know the house like the back of my hand, so i get a little cash flow and keep riding the appreciation up. On the flip side, we moved out of a house a bit over a year ago and did a bunch of work to it, and it's for sale right now. We'd like to take advantage of the primary residence capital gains exemption and with property taxes i don't think the returns will be there as a long term rental. It's not getting a lot of traction so far though and i don't have a job so we may end up furnishing and vrboing it. Just my situation and thought processes, if it helps.

KT_Ag08 said:

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if the price heads down on something I will just keep ringing the register on premiums while getting closer to net free on the original investment.

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This makes sense but is very hard for me in practice ( psychologically). Also when a stonk is not going up the call premiums tend to suck
Edit: but 40k is a good amount to start learning the wheel with. Start with aapl and don't sell calls too close to the money (or at all, until we get some movement) and get your shares stolen

tailgatetimer10 said:

---

I know this is not the topic of the thread but:

Does anyone in here own rental properties? I'm trying to decide if I should rent vs sell my place.. And would like to discuss this topic with someone who trades stock, to get their thoughts. Most of my contacts and friends who own rentals do not actively trade or invest in stocks, so I am unable to have an unbiased discussion

---

I have 2. A duplex and a SFR. I had 3 but sold one of my SFRs after I realized the type of tenant it attracted was not one I wanted to manage.

I think rental properties are a great way to park some money and have it work for you if you don't mind dealing with tenants. I manage them myself to save on the management fees. It's not that difficult, really.

My goal in 2016 was to own 5 by 2022, not sure I'm going to get there (mainly because I've branched out to the stock market more and crypto investing too).

I'll gladly answer any questions you have about my tiny little portfolio (which I think is not too bad for a public educator).

NRD09 said:

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KT_Ag08 said:

---

if the price heads down on something I will just keep ringing the register on premiums while getting closer to net free on the original investment.

---

This makes sense but is very hard for me in practice ( psychologically). Also when a stonk is not going up the call premiums tend to suck
Edit: but 40k is a good amount to start learning the wheel with. Start with aapl and don't sell calls too close to the money (or at all, until we get some movement) and get your shares stolen

---

Thanks again. For clarification, in my active trading account I buy and sell options at around 4x what I'd fund the new covered call only account with so I've got a decent amount of experience for just about a year's worth of "trading". The goal is steady and sometimes inflated yet capped growth without the risk of bag holding.

Gotcha... yeah i realize now that you've been active here a good while. So here's another question: why keep them separate? I've been trying to consolidate all similar accounts (taxable, roth, trad), i have accumulation, wheel, and fd positions in all of them, i just try and allocate type of play appropriately within each account

Cool... besides aapl what about ostk, hd, low, run, dg? Crwd is part of my regular wheel rotation as well. Allocate a little more cash and do tsla?

NRD09 said:

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Tomas Hermensa said:

---

tailgatetimer10 said:

---

I know this is not the topic of the thread but:

Does anyone in here own rental properties? I'm trying to decide if I should rent vs sell my place.. And would like to discuss this topic with someone who trades stock, to get their thoughts. Most of my contacts and friends who own rentals do not actively trade or invest in stocks, so I am unable to have an unbiased discussion

---

I think owning or investing in RE rental property is an excellent place to put money so it's not all in the stock market. I have several RE Investments over the years and this past year I have been educating myself to begin purchasing my own rental properties.

Specific to your question: I would look at your metrics for grading a potential rental property opportunity, then do some DD on recent home sales and rental prices. For instance if you need monthly rent to be 1% or more of home cost to consider a rental purchase that would be a good place to start. You may also want to consider the fees and costs you'd pay if you sold (exclude taxes) as well as any costs incurred if you didn't sell (if not paid off would keeping that mortgage make the mortgage on your new house more expensive).
If financially it would be a good investment to buy as a rental house, I would consider keeping it. If it would not I would just sell it.

If it does make sense to keep from a financial perspective then you have to decide if it's worth it to you, assuming you don't have other rentals. Do you want to invest the time to get this rented, to set up rental agreement, deal with renters, and deal with maintenance items? For the first rental this can be a relatively sizeable time suck. On the other side it would be a great way to break in to the RE rental game and get experience with a home that you are familiar with.

TDLR: Maybe

---

This is a great and very detailed answer. Also the primary residence capital gains exemption is awesome and a big consideration if the house has appreciated considerably in the time you've owned it. About mid January i decided i had cracked the stock market game and thought about selling my investment property and just trading the proceeds. It's a rental that has appreciated a lot (like 4x) since I've owned it, and I've taken a lot of depreciation and other expenses on taxes, so if i sell it I'll have to pay a lot of that back, in addition to the capital gains since it has been too long since it was my primary residence. I also think it's got some more appreciation to go and I've been really fortunate with my renters/ rental experience, so I'm hanging onto it for now. All that said, im pretty sure it's underperforming... don't think it's returning 1% on the equity i have tied up in it after taxes, insurance,
maintenance etc., but it's pretty low stress most of the time, i replaced almost everything in it when i lived there so i know the house like the back of my hand, so i get a little cash flow and keep riding the appreciation up. On the flip side, we moved out of a house a bit over a year ago and did a bunch of work to it, and it's for sale right now. We'd like to take advantage of the primary residence capital gains exemption and with property taxes i don't think the returns will be there as a long term rental. It's not getting a lot of traction so far though and i don't have a job so we may end up furnishing and vrboing it. Just my situation and thought processes, if it helps.

---

Cash out refi the rental, capture some of the equity and take advantage of low interest rates, if that's an option.

RUN

Some thoughts....think there is a trade here but not sure what yet.

• Closed above 8 & 21 EMA.
• Rights at ATR mean.
• MT is about $73.75
• Tends to bounce at +2 ATR which will be close to MT
• Currently at a resistance level back to Sept/Oct/Nov/Dec/Feb withy next about $68 (Fib shows 67.37 but pings 68+)
• May flag here and run/break back to MT but that is ATR +2 if a trade vs. long. Has had trouble holding highs.
• Not liking the action since Jan 12 high to drop back to Sept support and not hold Nov/Dec levels. $46.70 looks to be firm support level.

NRD09 said:

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Cool... besides aapl what about ostk, hd, low, run, dg? Crwd is part of my regular wheel rotation as well. Allocate a little more cash and do tsla?

---

Debated TSLA as well and have the cash on the sidelines to do it with my other account. Also looked at NIO as that is what basically built my account with an initial $15k @ $11 last year.

Could do that and have thought about it. It's almost paid off though and i really like the idea of that. If I'm gonna keep it i really should pull the equity out at a cheaper rate and put it to work...

White House Road said:

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Thoughts on LLY? Positively stacked avgs, just above the 21ema, bbs tightening, entering daily squeeze with positive momentum.

---

Similar setup on ABBV

ibdm98 said:

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Underwear are optional when trading.

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Fify

Have you checked Northman Trader or MFHoz Twitter feeds the past week? Goodnight there are some scary things out there.

The only, and I mean only, reason for optimism regarding equity pricing is continued Fed intervention. And when the music stops on that, it's going to be bad. The timing of when Fed intervention stops working is the hard part, but it cannot last forever.

Tomas Hermensa said:

---

tailgatetimer10 said:

---

I know this is not the topic of the thread but:

Does anyone in here own rental properties? I'm trying to decide if I should rent vs sell my place.. And would like to discuss this topic with someone who trades stock, to get their thoughts. Most of my contacts and friends who own rentals do not actively trade or invest in stocks, so I am unable to have an unbiased discussion

---

I think owning or investing in RE rental property is an excellent place to put money so it's not all in the stock market. I have several RE Investments over the years and this past year I have been educating myself to begin purchasing my own rental properties.

Specific to your question: I would look at your metrics for grading a potential rental property opportunity, then do some DD on recent home sales and rental prices. For instance if you need monthly rent to be 1% or more of home cost to consider a rental purchase that would be a good place to start. You may also want to consider the fees and costs you'd pay if you sold (exclude taxes) as well as any costs incurred if you didn't sell (if not paid off would keeping that mortgage make the mortgage on your new house more expensive).
If financially it would be a good investment to buy as a rental house, I would consider keeping it. If it would not I would just sell it.

If it does make sense to keep from a financial perspective then you have to decide if it's worth it to you, assuming you don't have other rentals. Do you want to invest the time to get this rented, to set up rental agreement, deal with renters, and deal with maintenance items? For the first rental this can be a relatively sizeable time suck. On the other side it would be a great way to break in to the RE rental game and get experience with a home that you are familiar with.

TDLR: Maybe

---

I really appreciate the response, and I'll take this to PM to not bog down the thread. But if some are interested in continuing the discussion since it's still Sunday, details:

-This is my first home, purchased early 2010s
-Located in the austin area so large appreciation (think 150% ish)
-i owe less than 50% of the initial purchase price on the mortgage
-the home would cash flow positive at 1.1% of the initial purchase, but obviously less than 0.5% of the current value. This is a poor metric in austin because many are buying houses for the appreciation play and taking losses on the rent.

I'm struggling greatly with this decision

KT_Ag08 said:

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Tomas Hermensa said:

---

For this strategy I'd probably tend to do it on and ETF like SPY, QQQ, or ITM (if that last one has options). If you wanted something that may be somewhat diversified from the other two accounts you could see if there's a foreign stock ETF with options, maybe JPXN, VT, or VPL.

---

Thanks for the response. Any reason in particular to head to an index or ETF? I'm not terribly risk averse with this money, if the price heads down on something I will just keep ringing the register on premiums while getting closer to net free on the original investment.

---

I'd tend to think an ETF would have more stable movements so you'd have less weeks where you missed the big moves. I've intended to look into this strategy in detail, but from the high level look I've done at historical performance the biggest drawback is missing those really big weeks. Your goal of course is to more than offset that with the premium revenues. I would imagine this would happen more often with individual stocks. Of course you might get more in premiums. It would definitely be something to look at. Also maybe it would pay to rotate between a group of 3-10 stocks that you normally follow. You might avoid weeks after squeezes or to target stocks after they've ended a big move, so the premiums are jacked but you think the chances of missing a big move are less. If you look into historical performance in more detail I would definitely be interested in seeing what you find.

Thanks. I agree I like LLY better. ABBV is maybe more one to watch for right now. I think BBBY looks good too.


Edit to add chart for BBBY.

White House Road said:

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Thanks. I agree I like LLY better. ABBV is maybe more one to watch for right now. I think BBBY looks good too.


Edit to add chart for BBBY.

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Man we have shopped at and bought a ton from BBBY over the past few years with VRBO properties to keep stocked. From our experience the past 6-8 months their service has really gone down hill. May just be our location not sure.

I couldn't even tell you the last time I was at one. Just looking at these strictly for options trades.

I like the SPY idea. Maybe throw in a mix of bitcoin names as well, MARA and RIOT have great premiums, plus maybe add NIO. SNDL could be swing traded, just cash out and dont hold once it model T's. Also SKLZ and FUBO are great for premium when they run.

BREwmaster said:

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I like the SPY idea. Maybe throw in a mix of bitcoin names as well, MARA and RIOT have great premiums, plus maybe add NIO. SNDL could be swing traded, just cash out and dont hold once it model T's. Also SKLZ and FUBO are great for premium when they run.

---

I was actually selling covered calls in my trading account for MARA and yeah that's big premium but had my shares assigned Friday. I'm likely going to keep running with those in my other account and will diversify a bit here. I'm liking the SPY idea the more I think about it. Easy to pivot strategy on short dated options to match macroeconomic trends and easy to scalp if necessary.

I think it's a foregone conclusion $IMMR is on it's way back up to at least $12.64. Any chance that happens by the end of this week? The 3/19 $12.5c's are currently at .20...

Tomas Hermensa said:

---

KT_Ag08 said:

---

Tomas Hermensa said:

---

For this strategy I'd probably tend to do it on and ETF like SPY, QQQ, or ITM (if that last one has options). If you wanted something that may be somewhat diversified from the other two accounts you could see if there's a foreign stock ETF with options, maybe JPXN, VT, or VPL.

---

Thanks for the response. Any reason in particular to head to an index or ETF? I'm not terribly risk averse with this money, if the price heads down on something I will just keep ringing the register on premiums while getting closer to net free on the original investment.

---

I'd tend to think an ETF would have more stable movements so you'd have less weeks where you missed the big moves. I've intended to look into this strategy in detail, but from the high level look I've done at historical performance the biggest drawback is missing those really big weeks. Your goal of course is to more than offset that with the premium revenues. I would imagine this would happen more often with individual stocks. Of course you might get more in premiums. It would definitely be something to look at. Also maybe it would pay to rotate between a group of 3-10 stocks that you normally follow. You might avoid weeks after squeezes or to target stocks after they've ended a big move, so the premiums are jacked but you think the chances of missing a big move are less. If you look into historical performance in more detail I would definitely be interested in seeing what you find.

---

Good thoughts and I think it would be interesting to look into what you're mentioning. In this case, I think the strategy just needs to line up with the goal. I want to minimize or mostly negate downside risk while allowing for above average albeit capped growth.

ibdm98 said:

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I think it's a foregone conclusion $IMMR is on it's way back up to at least $12.64. Any chance that happens by the end of this week? The 3/19 $12.5c's are currently at .20...

---

Why doesn't your chart include Friday's candle?

Good question - I blame ATP

Here's the updated chart...

Here's what my considerations would be (are) in this scenario

Sell pros:
You can sell right now and walk away with a big chunk of change tax free
Historic low interest rates driving prices/buying frenzy
You can do way better than rent by investing that money

Keep/Rent pros:
Property keeps appreciating
Learn/build rental portfolio (while diversifying risk)

You could also rent it for a year or two and run the math again before you lose capital gains exception, and really the only risk is that your market cools down (unlikely) or rates go up affecting prices (not likely in 2 years imo)

If i were in your shoes I'd probably sell it, unless you just really wanted to try your hand at slumlording

OK folks, I posted about $GOOGL last week. It looks good.

It is possible that $GME keeps on trucking.