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thirdcoast
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4:06p, 5/14/20
AG
TA rook here, just started reading Handbook on TA in OP.

I got stuck on basic bear vs bull flag. In Ch 2, it defines a "bear flag with lower highs and lower lows in a larger bull trend" and a "bull flag with higher lows and higher highs in overall bearish move".

I always thought bull flags indicate continuation of bull trend and bear flags continuation of bear trend. So basically the opposite of handbook. What am I missing?!
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oldarmy1
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4:06p, 5/14/20
AG
Some of you smaller traders who had the $283 Call and $281 Put mind posting your entry price for each side, the sell price for the outs and the sell price of the calls?

Like to check what any lag from posting to execution looks like.
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McInnis 03
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In reply to ProgN • 4:06p, 5/14/20
AG
Prognightmare said:
Ranger222 said:
just going to long APT


I respect your posts more than you know.

I bought AMD 5/22 $50p right before you posted that you bought the $60 calls a few days ago.

I closed out my puts yesterday for a small profit and purchased the 5/22 $55c today at the open.

Thanks.
He speaks softly and carries a big stick. I agree, Ranger knows his stuff.
***If this post is on Business and Investing, take it with a grain of salt. I am wrong way more than I am right (but I am less wrong than I used to be) and if you follow me you will be too.***

B&I Key:
ETH - Extended Trading Hours --- RTH - Regular Trading Hours
ORH - Opening Range (1st 30min) High --- ORL - Opening Range Low
R1, R2, R3 - Resistance 1, 2, or 3 --- S1, S2, S3 - Support 1, 2 or 3
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McInnis 03
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In reply to oldarmy1 • 4:08p, 5/14/20
AG
oldarmy1 said:
Some of you smaller traders who had the $283 Call and $281 Put mind posting your entry price for each side, the sell price for the outs and the sell price of the calls?

Like to check what any lag from posting to execution looks like.
I wasn't on those plays but I can tell you from past experiences my lag time from your execution to mine is always always significant, and it really depends on the volatility of that one specific trade to determine how significant. But I will say this, your confidence level in the command you've given tends to dictate how much I'm willing to chase that trade.
***If this post is on Business and Investing, take it with a grain of salt. I am wrong way more than I am right (but I am less wrong than I used to be) and if you follow me you will be too.***

B&I Key:
ETH - Extended Trading Hours --- RTH - Regular Trading Hours
ORH - Opening Range (1st 30min) High --- ORL - Opening Range Low
R1, R2, R3 - Resistance 1, 2, or 3 --- S1, S2, S3 - Support 1, 2 or 3
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oldarmy1
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In reply to thirdcoast • 4:08p, 5/14/20
AG
thirdcoast said:
TA rook here, just started reading Handbook on TA in OP.

I got stuck on basic bear vs bull flag. In Ch 2, it defines a "bear flag with lower highs and lower lows in a larger bull trend" and a "bull flag with higher lows and higher highs in overall bearish move".

I always thought bull flags indicate continuation of bull trend and bear flags continuation of bear trend. So basically the opposite of handbook. What am I missing?!


Those same principle technicals are used within a single day as well. You have to wait for the end of a day to analyze the macro technicals and potential for reversal, continuation, etc.
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ProgN
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In reply to BrokeAssAggie • 4:08p, 5/14/20
Correct

ETA: Your scenario is correct
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BrokeAssAggie
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In reply to ProgN • 4:11p, 5/14/20
Prognightmare said:
Correct


So the strike price isn't really what I should be tracking for gains/losses but what my contract is trading for. As your see your call contract price go up that means more people think your strike price is going to be met or exceeded...??
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ProgN
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In reply to McInnis 03 • 4:13p, 5/14/20
McInnis 03 said:
Prognightmare said:
Ranger222 said:
just going to long APT


I respect your posts more than you know.

I bought AMD 5/22 $50p right before you posted that you bought the $60 calls a few days ago.

I closed out my puts yesterday for a small profit and purchased the 5/22 $55c today at the open.

Thanks.
He speaks softly and carries a big stick. I agree, Ranger knows his stuff.


Ranger knows his stuff and has shared some incredible money makers to the thread. He doesn't post very often, but when he does, it warrants your attention.
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Andy07
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In reply to oldarmy1 • 4:13p, 5/14/20
AG
oldarmy1 said:
Doing some after market study and I missed that bottom pivot call on SPY by 8 cents. So sorry I really cost you Put holders some coin! Even I am freaked out at seeing markets drop multiple days and getting a bottom pivot within 8 cents. Heading to buy some lotto tickets now.


I followed you today and I'm happy to blindly make money off it, but I'm trying to learn a bit about what you saw to call the bottom.

Was it just a mixture of experience and watching the level II quotes for large orders, or had you seen something earlier than that which indicated a potential pivot?
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ProgN
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In reply to BrokeAssAggie • 4:18p, 5/14/20
CrazyRichAggie said:
Prognightmare said:
Correct


So the strike price isn't really what I should be tracking for gains/losses but what my contract is trading for. As your see your call contract price go up that means more people think your strike price is going to be met or exceeded...??


You're trading with 2 variables with an option, time (premium) and price. As an option becomes ITM, it will trade in tandem with the stock. If it's out of the money and time erodes, so does the value.

Like OA has mentioned many times. Beginning on Wednesday of an option that experiences expiration on a Friday, the market will begin to peel premium out rapidly because the time is eroding and it's not ITM.
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thirdcoast
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In reply to oldarmy1 • 4:18p, 5/14/20
AG
oldarmy1 said:
thirdcoast said:
TA rook here, just started reading Handbook on TA in OP.

I got stuck on basic bear vs bull flag. In Ch 2, it defines a "bear flag with lower highs and lower lows in a larger bull trend" and a "bull flag with higher lows and higher highs in overall bearish move".

I always thought bull flags indicate continuation of bull trend and bear flags continuation of bear trend. So basically the opposite of handbook. What am I missing?!


Those same principle technicals are used within a single day as well. You have to wait for the end of a day to analyze the macro technicals and potential for reversal, continuation, etc.


Thanks, but wouldn't F & G be bull flags and I a bear flag?

Per below pg 17, the handbook labels F & G "bear flags" and I a "bull flag"

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leoj
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4:24p, 5/14/20
AG
higher highs/lows on AYX on the daily.

Actually kind of a cup and handle as well. Hard to see with the volatility and huge daily candles, but over 130 should leave room above to the 160 ath.
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Andy07
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In reply to oldarmy1 • 4:26p, 5/14/20
AG
oldarmy1 said:
Some of you smaller traders who had the $283 Call and $281 Put mind posting your entry price for each side, the sell price for the outs and the sell price of the calls?

Like to check what any lag from posting to execution looks like.


Usually my lag is pretty significant, but happened to be able to pay attention to this thread, work and trading most of today and late yesterday.

280P entry at 2.21 -- exit at 4.65-4.66 (I also exited all of my 277P contracts here since you had such conviction)
283C entry at 2.1 exit at 2.37, 2.2, and all out at 2.8

I took a little off each time the 283c got ITM, and then pulled the rest off when I was on a conference call at the end of the day since I didn't want to hold overnight.
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leoj
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In reply to thirdcoast • 4:27p, 5/14/20
AG
I think the confusion is the terminology. Most people would definitely switch the nomenclature there, G would be a bull flag and I the bear flag. Most people would refer to the trend of the market that the flag is in, while the book kind of names it after the trend/direction of the flag. So I is a bullish move in a bearing trend, etc.
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BrokeAssAggie
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In reply to ProgN • 4:28p, 5/14/20
Prognightmare said:
CrazyRichAggie said:
Prognightmare said:
Correct


So the strike price isn't really what I should be tracking for gains/losses but what my contract is trading for. As your see your call contract price go up that means more people think your strike price is going to be met or exceeded...??


You're trading with 2 variables with an option, time (premium) and price. As an option becomes ITM, it will trade in tandem with the stock. If it's out of the money and time erodes, so does the value.

Like OA has mentioned many times. Beginning on Wednesday of an option that experiences expiration on a Friday, the market will begin to peel premium out rapidly because the time is eroding and it's not ITM.


Ok, maybe I understand a little more than I thought. And if you flip the example with a put it would be wise to purchase the actual stock as well to offset any losses should the stock price go up..?
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thirdcoast
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In reply to leoj • 4:31p, 5/14/20
AG
Thanks.
Hopefully, this is the only terminology that goes against the normal TA standard descriptions. Otherwise, I'm in for a bumpy start.
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thirdcoast
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In reply to leoj • 4:33p, 5/14/20
AG
Thanks.
Hopefully, this is the only terminology that goes against the normal TA standard descriptions. Otherwise, I'm in for a bumpy start.
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Touchless
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In reply to leoj • 4:33p, 5/14/20
AG
leoj said:
I think the confusion is the terminology. Most people would definitely switch the nomenclature there, G would be a bull flag and I the bear flag. Most people would refer to the trend of the market that the flag is in, while the book kind of names it after the trend/direction of the flag. So I is a bullish move in a bearing trend, etc.
Boy that's confusing. I would think higher highs/lows would be a bull flag and lower highs/lows would be a bear, simply because bulls go up and bears go down.
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AgEng06
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In reply to Touchless • 4:37p, 5/14/20
AG
Touchless said:
leoj said:
I think the confusion is the terminology. Most people would definitely switch the nomenclature there, G would be a bull flag and I the bear flag. Most people would refer to the trend of the market that the flag is in, while the book kind of names it after the trend/direction of the flag. So I is a bullish move in a bearing trend, etc.
Boy that's confusing. I would think higher highs/lows would be a bull flag and lower highs/lows would be a bear, simply because bulls go up and bears go down.
Your thought is right, it just occurs in the opposite overall trend. Higher highs/lows is a bull flag in a bearish overall trend. And the opposite is also true.
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thirdcoast
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4:37p, 5/14/20
AG
OA's chart in OP has bear and bull flag labeled as I understood it, but the handbook labels it opposite on chart.

I'm only 17 pgs deep...
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Brewmaster
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In reply to oldarmy1 • 4:39p, 5/14/20
AG
oldarmy1 said:
Some of you smaller traders who had the $283 Call and $281 Put mind posting your entry price for each side, the sell price for the outs and the sell price of the calls?

Like to check what any lag from posting to execution looks like.
not exactly what you're asking for, but... I just got back into options this week.

bought a 285c short exp 5/15 for .94 yesterday on the dip. Sold it today at 1.50. I almost bought more at .54 on the dip this morning, but wasn't confident enough. I could've made bank on those!
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IrishTxAggie
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4:39p, 5/14/20
AG
NYSE to reopen trading floor after Memorial Day with changes

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/nyse-to-reopen-may-26-with-limitations
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AgEng06
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In reply to thirdcoast • 4:39p, 5/14/20
AG
Ha, good point. Now I'm confused and I'm just gonna sit it out and learn...
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leoj
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In reply to Touchless • 4:40p, 5/14/20
AG
Touchless said:
leoj said:
I think the confusion is the terminology. Most people would definitely switch the nomenclature there, G would be a bull flag and I the bear flag. Most people would refer to the trend of the market that the flag is in, while the book kind of names it after the trend/direction of the flag. So I is a bullish move in a bearing trend, etc.
Boy that's confusing. I would think higher highs/lows would be a bull flag and lower highs/lows would be a bear, simply because bulls go up and bears go down.
I think it is way less important what you call it and more important that you understand what the setup means. Just be able to identify the short term set up and what overall trend it is taking place in.

So just know that higher highs/lows in a bearish trend is a bearish setup. Once that lower trendline of the flag is broken, it is signaling a bearish move. Hence why most people would just call it a bear flag, it is setting up for a move down. The book may have the terminology technically correct, I have just always seen anyone I ever follow who posts those setups refer to it more towards the trend/expected move.
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thirdcoast
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In reply to leoj • 4:47p, 5/14/20
AG
Yes, that's my view. Just hate to see a handbook go against the common TA nomenclature of flag naming, and OA's own charts. But thanks for confirmation...I'll move on.
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leoj
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4:53p, 5/14/20
AG
Someone has to tell me an easy way to post photos on here that also works well with mobile. This is the quickest way I could think.

So this is what I was looking at to enter Apple puts yesterday. The first one is more of a pennant, and the lines are quickly drawn but you get the idea. The "bear flag" that is the second setup was golden.

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Brewmaster
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4:54p, 5/14/20
AG
what is the play on APT? seems to be quite bullish on the options.
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IrishTxAggie
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In reply to Brewmaster • 4:56p, 5/14/20
AG
BREwmaster said:
what is the play on APT? seems to be quite bullish on the options.


Trump plans to stockpile/resupply the federal equipment. 300MM N95 masks is on the order
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tsuag10
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5:30p, 5/14/20
AG
Sorry if this is old news, but I thought it relevant to most here:

Just heard on the radio that the NFL is planning to pump in crowd noise and have "virtual fans" in the stadiums this season. They said this plan is "basically a done deal."

What do we think that does to the markets, and are there any specific stocks we should be looking at because of this?

ETA: This "plan" tells me that they already know fans aren't going to be coming to stadiums this year.
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IrishTxAggie
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In reply to tsuag10 • 5:31p, 5/14/20
AG
Where did you hear that? Got a link?
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tsuag10
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In reply to IrishTxAggie • 5:32p, 5/14/20
AG
Just heard it on the radio 5 min ago. They said the info came from Fox's Joe Buck.
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BrokeAssAggie
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5:33p, 5/14/20
Sell NV
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IrishTxAggie
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In reply to tsuag10 • 5:35p, 5/14/20
AG
https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2020/05/14/joe-buck-pretty-much-done-deal-fox-will-use-fake-crowd-noise-virtual-fans-nfl-games/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

That's if they don't have fans. They're not writing off having fans at this time
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jet99
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In reply to oldarmy1 • 5:40p, 5/14/20
I'm a long time lurker who has learned a ton following this thread. I really appreciate the welcoming spirit the regular posters have for newbies. OA, you nailed this trade so perfectly I have to help you track followers. I was in such a hurry to follow you I even mistakenly bought the default 10 contracts on the put instead of my original smaller plan of 4. I noticed shortly afterwards and decided to let it ride, luckily for even bigger success.

Bought 4 283C at 2.40
Bought 10 280P at 2.21
Sold 10 280P at 4.8
Sold 4 283C at 2.42

I was a bit behind on the call. Unfortunately, I do have a real job.

Thanks for the lessons.
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tsuag10
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In reply to IrishTxAggie • 5:46p, 5/14/20
AG
Gotcha. That makes sense to have a plan.
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