W said:

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Oswalt > H.B.

especially in innings pitched

Roy O. threw 233 innings in his second season

he threw 240 innings in his fifth season

remarkable durability

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I think the more apt comparison was younger versions of them, because Oswalt dwarfs HB in what he did the first few years of his career, and ditto Berkman over Yordan in his first 8 years (minus the post-season of course!)

Statistically, this would be one of the better bullpens in the league if stats hold.

Your rotation is completely changed by a True #1 with Brown becoming a #2 if healthy. You then add Javier/Blanco and get Wesneski back as well. That is a completely overhauled rotation.

Offensively your OF becomes much stronger and infield is likely a push. Unless you are willing to drop Altuve (or are able to move Correa), you're pretty locked in. injury risk still high, which is the big risk.

A new manager that can be a little more situational and get more from the parts is better.

i really want to trade a lot as kind of a one-year reset, but if you are going to re-tool, that's a good view of what the team could look like.

Farmer1906 said:

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I am not going to claim there is a way to know the best way moving forward. I think there are arguments to be made for going for it, retooling, and a full rebuild. I will, however, claim that I do not have faith in the leadership to get us back to the promised land. I agree with Max that managers are given far too much blame and credit. But I don't believe in Espada. I don't believe Brown has any major vision for this team or franchise. He's capable of winning a deal or making a good signing, but big picture-wise he's not it. That leaves Crane. The best owner the Astros have ever had. However, the guy we have now and the guy we had 10 years ago isn't the same. I respect the way Crane is trying to keep the team competitive and keeps the payroll top 10, but he's gotta make the right hires and let them cook. I don't think the trust is there after the sign stealing scandal.

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This is the most spot on analysis of where we are at for each level of organizational management.

agproducer said:

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It's time for a youth movement and reset. You keep Correa, Altuve and Yordan to help guide the younger players. You are open and honest with them about the team's direction -- tell them we want you to play the McCann and Beltran roles for the players to teach them how to compete. See if you can resign Yordan for 2029 and beyond -- if he stays healthy.

Trade Brown, Pena, Paredes and Hader -- and anyone else of value. Use your pre-arb players while you restock talent. See which young pitchers do well over the next couple years, and keep those.

Then in 2029 -- you are ready to compete again with Neyens, younger Alvarez and other talent you pick up.

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This is pretty much where I am (and have been for a while). We should be able to get several good prospects by trading Pena, Paredes, Brown, Walker and Hader. Keep the GOAT, CC and Yordan. The only way I'm trading Yordan is if some team offers us something we simply can't refuse.

W said:

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Oswalt > H.B.

especially in innings pitched

Roy O. threw 233 innings in his second season

he threw 240 innings in his fifth season

remarkable durability

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Yes, should not have said "better". "Similar" would be a better word as he's a desirable ace on a team that will continue to be no better than mediocre.

Wabs said:

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agproducer said:

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It's time for a youth movement and reset. You keep Correa, Altuve and Yordan to help guide the younger players. You are open and honest with them about the team's direction -- tell them we want you to play the McCann and Beltran roles for the players to teach them how to compete. See if you can resign Yordan for 2029 and beyond -- if he stays healthy.

Trade Brown, Pena, Paredes and Hader -- and anyone else of value. Use your pre-arb players while you restock talent. See which young pitchers do well over the next couple years, and keep those.

Then in 2029 -- you are ready to compete again with Neyens, younger Alvarez and other talent you pick up.

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This is pretty much where I am (and have been for a while). We should be able to get several good prospects by trading Pena, Paredes, Brown, Walker and Hader. Keep the GOAT, CC and Yordan. The only way I'm trading Yordan is if some team offers us something we simply can't refuse.

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Yordan will not be here in 2029. If you want to compete sooner, see my post over the weekend about the window being no later than 2028.

But you HAVE to sell this year.

Heineken-Ashi said:

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Wabs said:

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agproducer said:

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It's time for a youth movement and reset. You keep Correa, Altuve and Yordan to help guide the younger players. You are open and honest with them about the team's direction -- tell them we want you to play the McCann and Beltran roles for the players to teach them how to compete. See if you can resign Yordan for 2029 and beyond -- if he stays healthy.

Trade Brown, Pena, Paredes and Hader -- and anyone else of value. Use your pre-arb players while you restock talent. See which young pitchers do well over the next couple years, and keep those.

Then in 2029 -- you are ready to compete again with Neyens, younger Alvarez and other talent you pick up.

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This is pretty much where I am (and have been for a while). We should be able to get several good prospects by trading Pena, Paredes, Brown, Walker and Hader. Keep the GOAT, CC and Yordan. The only way I'm trading Yordan is if some team offers us something we simply can't refuse.

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Yordan will not be here in 2029. If you want to compete sooner, see my post over the weekend about the window being no later than 2028.

But you HAVE to sell this year.

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I went back to your post -- pretty spot on with how I feel. 2028 would be nice. I'm not sure those moves, though, would help right the ship. Right now, it's a rudderless mess.

Heineken-Ashi said:

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Yordan will not be here in 2029.

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I'll take the bet that he will, and be enormously saddened if I lose it lol

linkdude said:

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Heineken-Ashi said:

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Yordan will not be here in 2029.

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I'll take the bet that he will, and be enormously saddened if I lose it lol

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One would think it would be in the Astros' best interest to try to add 1 to 2 years onto Yordan's contract before December 1st otherwise there is little chance they will be able to get a contract extension signed until after the MLBPA negotiation is completed.

After that, will he be motivated resign with Houston if they keep floundering in 2027 and 2028? And in the same vein, will he be motivated to resign if the Astros rebuild?

BTKAG97 said:

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EastCoastAgNc said:

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Chandler sees no scenario in which they sell off controllable guys because Him doesn't want to rebuild. That would be the dumbest thing ever

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Yeah, it sounded like Chandler and Tyler believe the Astros should be sellers, but they believe the Astros won't specifically because "You can't go through a rebuild when you have Yordan on your team" and "You can't have Altuve end his career in the same situtation in which he started it" and there's a good chance that both of those thoughts are bouncing around inside Crane's dome to the detriment of the organization over the next 4 years or the length of Altuve's remaining career.

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The funny part is he's gonna eff around with a scuffling .500 team for the next 2 years and then he'll be rebuilding with absolutely no talent anywhere when those guys leave anyway.

The other concept that appears to fly over his head is free agency. If you trade Pena you get the players you trade him for AND you save $15-20M next year. If Jim wants to compete then just reinvest that money in free agency. I will take what we get for Pena plus an Ian Happ, Jeffers, Brandon Lowe, Peralta or a Japanese bat like Sato. Hell give me two of those guys. Point being trading a Pena doesn't mean giving up, just as we didn't give up when we traded Tucker.

At some point he is going to have to trust someone. I can't believe someone with such a successful business career is incapable of trusting high level managers to run things without his oversight. I do agree that the sign stealing damaged things in this regard, but that was a decade ago.

One major concern of those who work around the team and the stadium is that ticket sales are dropping below Crane's comfort zone - throughout the year, they have been getting more creative and desperate with offers and deals to try to compensate.

I think Crane is worried that selling would accelerate this but doesn't fully grasp that failure to sell and regroup will just prolong the pain and malaise of the fan base as long-term mediocrity sets in.

I am not sure that reality is being fully grasped - for over a year now we have been one of the worst teams in baseball - not as bad as a couple of the super losers, but in the next tier of futility.

We aren't going through a rough stretch - we just aren't good. Period.

I would rather pay to see a crap team that I know has a plan and is in the midst of a rebuild than a mediocre/bad team that has no plan.

If Crane thinks ticket sales are bad now, just wait...

SpaceCityAg05 said:

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One major concern of those who work around the team and the stadium is that ticket sales are dropping below Crane's comfort zone - throughout the year, they have been getting more creative and desperate with offers and deals to try to compensate.

I think Crane is worried that selling would accelerate this but doesn't fully grasp that failure to sell and regroup will just prolong the pain and malaise of the fan base as long-term mediocrity sets in.

I am not sure that reality is being fully grasped - for over a year now we have been one of the worst teams in baseball - not as bad as a couple of the super losers, but in the next tier of futility.

We aren't going through a rough stretch - we just aren't good. Period.

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Tickets sales are worse now than they would be during a rebuild. Rebuild means exciting new young players with potential. This brings in more fans to the seats than old trash that doesn't have a chance to win. I guarantee 90% of the fans that show up now only do so because of wanting to see Altuve and Yordan.

SpaceCityAg05 said:

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One major concern of those who work around the team and the stadium is that ticket sales are dropping below Crane's comfort zone - throughout the year, they have been getting more creative and desperate with offers and deals to try to compensate.

I think Crane is worried that selling would accelerate this but doesn't fully grasp that failure to sell and regroup will just prolong the pain and malaise of the fan base as long-term mediocrity sets in.

I am not sure that reality is being fully grasped - for over a year now we have been one of the worst teams in baseball - not as bad as a couple of the super losers, but in the next tier of futility.

We aren't going through a rough stretch - we just aren't good. Period.

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Correct.

75-87 over the last 162. Bottom 7 in baseball.

79-94 since sweeping the dodgers last year

Crazy to think that we were 7 games up in the division at that point

tjack16 said:

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79-94 since sweeping the dodgers last year

Crazy to think that we were 7 games up in the division at that point

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superaggie73 said:

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SpaceCityAg05 said:

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One major concern of those who work around the team and the stadium is that ticket sales are dropping below Crane's comfort zone - throughout the year, they have been getting more creative and desperate with offers and deals to try to compensate.

I think Crane is worried that selling would accelerate this but doesn't fully grasp that failure to sell and regroup will just prolong the pain and malaise of the fan base as long-term mediocrity sets in.

I am not sure that reality is being fully grasped - for over a year now we have been one of the worst teams in baseball - not as bad as a couple of the super losers, but in the next tier of futility.

We aren't going through a rough stretch - we just aren't good. Period.

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Tickets sales are worse now than they would be during a rebuild. Rebuild means exciting new young players with potential. This brings in more fans to the seats than old trash that doesn't have a chance to win. I guarantee 90% of the fans that show up now only do so because of wanting to see Altuve and Yordan.

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Depends on the rebuild.

Avg Attendance
2012: 19848
2013: 19995
2014: 21628
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2026: 30878 (still higher than 2017)

SpaceCityAg05 said:

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One major concern of those who work around the team and the stadium is that ticket sales are dropping below Crane's comfort zone - throughout the year, they have been getting more creative and desperate with offers and deals to try to compensate.

I think Crane is worried that selling would accelerate this but doesn't fully grasp that failure to sell and regroup will just prolong the pain and malaise of the fan base as long-term mediocrity sets in.

I am not sure that reality is being fully grasped - for over a year now we have been one of the worst teams in baseball - not as bad as a couple of the super losers, but in the next tier of futility.

We aren't going through a rough stretch - we just aren't good. Period.

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Crane needs to worry most about how many aren't going to renew the season and mini-season packages for next year. If they don't see any effort towards making changes toward either a rebuild or at least some effort to improve, I predict a big drop in season ticket renewals. Getting swept at home by bad teams can't be enjoyable for season ticket holders to watch for very long.

SpaceCityAg05 said:

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I am not sure that reality is being fully grasped - for over a year now we have been one of the worst teams in baseball - not as bad as a couple of the super losers, but in the next tier of futility.

We aren't going through a rough stretch - we just aren't good. Period.

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Being bad is one thing. Playing lifeless, half-assed baseball is something completely different. Having a catcher who made boneheaded plays on consecutive days and a young guy who walks to the dugout after a dropped third strike with what appears to be no accountability is worse than just being bad. This team is a hard watch because many appear to just not give a crap.

Dana's ears perk up. We know he hits dongs at MMP.

Giving up next to nothing for an underperforming free-agent to-be Jorge Soler and hoping he gets hot in a playoff race seems like a good bet for a fringe contender pic.twitter.com/fwB6MGO2tE

— MLB Deadline News (@MLBDeadlineNews) July 20, 2026

SpaceCityAg05 said:

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One major concern of those who work around the team and the stadium is that ticket sales are dropping below Crane's comfort zone - throughout the year, they have been getting more creative and desperate with offers and deals to try to compensate.

I think Crane is worried that selling would accelerate this but doesn't fully grasp that failure to sell and regroup will just prolong the pain and malaise of the fan base as long-term mediocrity sets in.

I am not sure that reality is being fully grasped - for over a year now we have been one of the worst teams in baseball - not as bad as a couple of the super losers, but in the next tier of futility.

We aren't going through a rough stretch - we just aren't good. Period.

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100%. I think they believe it's just injuries. Well maybe you have a bunch of injury prone players (tends to happen with old guys). Regardless it highlights that you have no depth. Guess where depth comes from? Your farm.

Their thinking is too short term. They think this is bad. The reality is it can get a whole lot worse. Just because it hasn't for a decade doesn't mean it can't or won't. Keep jacking around with an old .500 team just to be forced into a rebuild that you're coming into with a bad farm because you let everyone walk for nothing and I 100% guarantee your ticket sale issues of 2026 will look like paradise.

linkdude said:

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Dana's ears perk up. We know he hits dongs at MMP.

Giving up next to nothing for an underperforming free-agent to-be Jorge Soler and hoping he gets hot in a playoff race seems like a good bet for a fringe contender pic.twitter.com/fwB6MGO2tE

— MLB Deadline News (@MLBDeadlineNews) July 20, 2026

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I can see the headline:

Daikin Switches to Soler Power

MaxPower said:

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SpaceCityAg05 said:

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One major concern of those who work around the team and the stadium is that ticket sales are dropping below Crane's comfort zone - throughout the year, they have been getting more creative and desperate with offers and deals to try to compensate.

I think Crane is worried that selling would accelerate this but doesn't fully grasp that failure to sell and regroup will just prolong the pain and malaise of the fan base as long-term mediocrity sets in.

I am not sure that reality is being fully grasped - for over a year now we have been one of the worst teams in baseball - not as bad as a couple of the super losers, but in the next tier of futility.

We aren't going through a rough stretch - we just aren't good. Period.

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100%. I think they believe it's just injuries. Well maybe you have a bunch of injury prone players (tends to happen with old guys and Boras clients in contract years). Regardless it highlights that you have no depth. Guess where depth comes from? Your farm.

Their thinking is too short term. They think this is bad. The reality is it can get a whole lot worse. Just because it hasn't for a decade doesn't mean it can't or won't. Keep jacking around with an old 7 games under .500 team just to be forced into a rebuild that you're coming into with a bad farm because you let everyone walk for nothing and I 100% guarantee your ticket sale issues of 2026 will look like paradise.

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FIFY

Booma94 said:

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SpaceCityAg05 said:

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I am not sure that reality is being fully grasped - for over a year now we have been one of the worst teams in baseball - not as bad as a couple of the super losers, but in the next tier of futility.

We aren't going through a rough stretch - we just aren't good. Period.

---

Being bad is one thing. Playing lifeless, half-assed baseball is something completely different. Having a catcher who made boneheaded plays on consecutive days and a young guy who walks to the dugout after a dropped third strike with what appears to be no accountability is worse than just being bad. This team is a hard watch because many appear to just not give a crap.

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was at the game friday,, lifeless is a good way to describe the body language of everyone on the astros. just trudging around the field with zero energy

CharleyKerfeld said:

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linkdude said:

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Dana's ears perk up. We know he hits dongs at MMP.

Giving up next to nothing for an underperforming free-agent to-be Jorge Soler and hoping he gets hot in a playoff race seems like a good bet for a fringe contender pic.twitter.com/fwB6MGO2tE

— MLB Deadline News (@MLBDeadlineNews) July 20, 2026

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I can see the headline:

Daikin Switches to Soler Power

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were you a copy editor in a former life?

txags92 said:

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MaxPower said:

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SpaceCityAg05 said:

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One major concern of those who work around the team and the stadium is that ticket sales are dropping below Crane's comfort zone - throughout the year, they have been getting more creative and desperate with offers and deals to try to compensate.

I think Crane is worried that selling would accelerate this but doesn't fully grasp that failure to sell and regroup will just prolong the pain and malaise of the fan base as long-term mediocrity sets in.

I am not sure that reality is being fully grasped - for over a year now we have been one of the worst teams in baseball - not as bad as a couple of the super losers, but in the next tier of futility.

We aren't going through a rough stretch - we just aren't good. Period.

---

100%. I think they believe it's just injuries. Well maybe you have a bunch of injury prone players (tends to happen with old guys and Boras clients in contract years).

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FIFY

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What's the logic with this? How does not playing benefit the player?

BTKAG97 said:

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txags92 said:

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MaxPower said:

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SpaceCityAg05 said:

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One major concern of those who work around the team and the stadium is that ticket sales are dropping below Crane's comfort zone - throughout the year, they have been getting more creative and desperate with offers and deals to try to compensate.

I think Crane is worried that selling would accelerate this but doesn't fully grasp that failure to sell and regroup will just prolong the pain and malaise of the fan base as long-term mediocrity sets in.

I am not sure that reality is being fully grasped - for over a year now we have been one of the worst teams in baseball - not as bad as a couple of the super losers, but in the next tier of futility.

We aren't going through a rough stretch - we just aren't good. Period.

---

100%. I think they believe it's just injuries. Well maybe you have a bunch of injury prone players (tends to happen with old guys and Boras clients in contract years).

---

FIFY

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What's the logic with this? How does not playing benefit the player?

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Keeps them from getting truly injured before they sign the deal for the big bucks. Seemed to work out fine for Tucker and Bregman...

Delgado back down, Blanco activated along with Bennett Sousa

linkdude said:

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CharleyKerfeld said:

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linkdude said:

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Dana's ears perk up. We know he hits dongs at MMP.

Giving up next to nothing for an underperforming free-agent to-be Jorge Soler and hoping he gets hot in a playoff race seems like a good bet for a fringe contender pic.twitter.com/fwB6MGO2tE

— MLB Deadline News (@MLBDeadlineNews) July 20, 2026

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I can see the headline:

Daikin Switches to Soler Power

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were you a copy editor in a former life?

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The British company called us "sub editors". Probably because we were American.

txags11 said:

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Delgado back down, Blanco activated along with Bennett Sousa

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40-man roster goes from 37 to 39 with those moves leaving 1 open space which has been open since Shewmake was DFAed on the 11th.

Sousa hopefully can pitch like king did prior to his blowups last week

Farmer1906 said:

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superaggie73 said:

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SpaceCityAg05 said:

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One major concern of those who work around the team and the stadium is that ticket sales are dropping below Crane's comfort zone - throughout the year, they have been getting more creative and desperate with offers and deals to try to compensate.

I think Crane is worried that selling would accelerate this but doesn't fully grasp that failure to sell and regroup will just prolong the pain and malaise of the fan base as long-term mediocrity sets in.

I am not sure that reality is being fully grasped - for over a year now we have been one of the worst teams in baseball - not as bad as a couple of the super losers, but in the next tier of futility.

We aren't going through a rough stretch - we just aren't good. Period.

---

Tickets sales are worse now than they would be during a rebuild. Rebuild means exciting new young players with potential. This brings in more fans to the seats than old trash that doesn't have a chance to win. I guarantee 90% of the fans that show up now only do so because of wanting to see Altuve and Yordan.

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Depends on the rebuild.

Avg Attendance
2012: 19848
2013: 19995
2014: 21628
---
2026: 30878 (still higher than 2017)

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I know what the stats say but, to me, this seems like an entirely different scenario today than in 2012. We've been to the mountaintop, I think we're more mature as a fanbase today than we were 15 years ago. Do you agree?

Jeff Bagwell watched Moneyball like it was a horror movie https://t.co/4k8R31iDhc

— SleeperAstros (@SleeperAstros) July 20, 2026

tjack16 said:

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Jeff Bagwell watched Moneyball like it was a horror movie https://t.co/4k8R31iDhc

— SleeperAstros (@SleeperAstros) July 20, 2026

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Bagwell needs to sit in the expensive seats, sign a few autographs, and enjoy being a franchise icon.

Beyond that, shut the hell up… and maybe get a haircut.