SpaceCityAg05 said:

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I know I am beating a drum here, but he was back in the leadoff spot today after beibg abysmal the first two games of the series.

He is close to .800 OPS on the season in the leadoff spot, WAY above his number in any other slot in tye order.

He needs to be out leadoff hitter at this point. Hit Peña third whenever he doesn't have cramps.

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I honestly think an AI manager would do a better job than Joe right now because it would look at things like this where the clear answer is staring Joe in the face and he refuses to recognize it. Same thing with continuing to run King out in leverage situations (and Abreu before that earlier this season).

mother ****in astounding joe has a job. we have jerry Jones 2.0 as an owner.....and Dave Campo as our manager

I still think yall are highly overrating the manager. There's no one on the bench that is clearly better than guys getting starts. Our 5-9 hitters and bench are all trash. Our 3-5 starters are trash that replaced the first batch of trash. On the bullpen, we have Hader and a bunch of decent guys. Maybe you could say he held out on King for too long (all of 5 appearances) but I think about any manager gives him that leash as good as he has been for 1.5 years. The team isn't good, the sooner you accept that the better. Joe should be fired but you need to accept the let down that this team will still suck afterwards and if we somehow make the playoffs by default we will get smoked the first round.

MaxPower said:

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I still think yall are highly overrating the manager. There's no one on the bench that is clearly better than guys getting starts. Our 5-9 hitters and bench are all trash. Our 3-5 starters are trash that replaced the first batch of trash. On the bullpen, we have Hader and a bunch of decent guys. Maybe you could say he held out on King for too long (all of 5 appearances) but I think about any manager gives him that leash as good as he has been for 1.5 years. The team isn't good, the sooner you accept that the better. Joe should be fired but you need to accept the let down that this team will still suck afterwards and if we somehow make the playoffs by default we will get smoked the first round.

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I think we all agree that it doesn't magically get better once Espada is gone. But at a certain point you have to say something is broken and there's zero shot anything improves under current leadership

one of the big flaws of the Espada era...

his teams don't fight for every 90 feet

Joe doesn't care about stolen bases -- preventing them or attempting to steal them

it's lazy managing

Who did the org say they weren't taking calls on for trades about a month ago? Was it Walker and Pena?

W said:

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one of the big flaws of the Espada era...

his teams don't fight for every 90 feet

Joe doesn't care about stolen bases -- preventing them or attempting to steal them

it's lazy managing

---

Other lazy management:
Righty vs lefty. Basically regardless of the situation

Pinch running for our best hitters late in close/tie games. Then doing nothing for that extra speed to matter so now we're down our best bat, usually yordan. Every. Single. Time.

Chandler sees no scenario in which they sell off controllable guys because Him doesn't want to rebuild. That would be the dumbest thing ever

Espada shows no wherewithal to improve attitude and commitment and his strategies, especially late and close, are the stuff of a kid playing a video game version of baseball for the first time. Taking Isaac out for pinch runner Nick Allen on the off chance someone might hit a double to the gap on Saturday was criminal.

The offense has no identity other than stand around waiting for Yordan to hit a home run.

Zach Dezenzo should have been publicly reprimanded after not running out the third strike that got away from the catcher to end the game the other night. You can't ask people to drop $300 on tickets, parking, and food for a game and then not see hustle from the millionaires.

MaxPower said:

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I still think yall are highly overrating the manager. There's no one on the bench that is clearly better than guys getting starts. Our 5-9 hitters and bench are all trash. Our 3-5 starters are trash that replaced the first batch of trash. On the bullpen, we have Hader and a bunch of decent guys. Maybe you could say he held out on King for too long (all of 5 appearances) but I think about any manager gives him that leash as good as he has been for 1.5 years. The team isn't good, the sooner you accept that the better. Joe should be fired but you need to accept the let down that this team will still suck afterwards and if we somehow make the playoffs by default we will get smoked the first round.

---

I have accepted all of that since late 2023. The trick now is getting Jim Crane to accept it. And the bottom line is Joe needs to be fired. The manager doesn't make or break the team, but Joe has certainly perfected the art of stealing losses from winnable situations. So why wait? What is the upside of waiting instead of giving Omar an interim title and letting him finish out the season?

Astros Bingo Update 7-20-2026
Spreadsheet link

Reasons to Smile Bitterly
Kyle Tucker's home run pace is down to 11. Eleven home runs for $60 million. Hang 10, Bro.

Cal Raleigh has an escalator clause that kicks in with the Mariners that will pay him $23 million each year from 2028-2030. He will 33, 34, and 35 years old then. In case you're not keeping up, he is currently hitting .163 with 9 home runs and a .565 OPS.

Reasons to Barf
61 more games of his crap.

Astros Flashback: July 20, 1962: The Colt .45s host "Stan Musial Day" at Colt Stadium vs. the St. Louis Cardinals, believing the legend is going to retire at the end of the year, which he does not. The good guys went 4-3 on a Roman Mejias RBI single in the bottom of the ninth. Dick Farrell strikes out 12 batters. The next day, he admits that he threw an illegal spitball to Musial DURING A RADIO INTERVIEW. He thinks it's funny, because Musial got an RBI single regardless. The National League thinks it is less funny and fines him.

And now, the newest sensation, sweeping the nation.

Better Know a Poster
Day 59: spotlight: JohnnyTexAg1995



Current Bingo Score: 4
Place: Tied for second with a few other people.
Squares Achieved: Rangers suck, Yordan > 25 HR, Ags beat sips, Judge < 50 HR
Squares Missed: Correa > 65 RBI, Hunter Brown top 3 Cy Young
Predicted Astros record: 89-73, just need to finish the season 42-19 (.672) to get there

Squares that look like future wins:
Hmmmm. Well, you've done great with your 4 so far!

Squares that are technically still humanly possible:
Pena batting average lead
Pena > 20 SB
Bregman > 20 homers, his pace is up to 16 and August approaches

Squares that haven't aged so well:
6+ win streak
Playoffs
Diaz > 20 HR
ERA < 3.86
Abreu > 30 saves/holds
Paredes RBI lead

Draft signings have been slow, but the ones completed are well under slot. Signed picks 7-10 and they are all $133-237k below slot.

I'm ready to move Pena. He won't resign here and seems to have problems staying healthy. Let's maximize what we can. Potential to also move a couple of pitchers and Diaz.

EastCoastAgNc said:

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Chandler sees no scenario in which they sell off controllable guys because Him doesn't want to rebuild. That would be the dumbest thing ever

---

Yeah, it sounded like Chandler and Tyler believe the Astros should be sellers, but they believe the Astros won't specifically because "You can't go through a rebuild when you have Yordan on your team" and "You can't have Altuve end his career in the same situtation in which he started it" and there's a good chance that both of those thoughts are bouncing around inside Crane's dome to the detriment of the organization over the next 4 years or the length of Altuve's remaining career.

I guess one thing I'm most frustrated about (among eleventy billion) is that we traded for Shewmake, DFA him when Peña gets back, for Peña to immediately go back on the IL.

This organization is a joke.

BTKAG97 said:

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EastCoastAgNc said:

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Chandler sees no scenario in which they sell off controllable guys because Him doesn't want to rebuild. That would be the dumbest thing ever

---

Yeah, it sounded like Chandler and Tyler believe the Astros should be sellers, but they believe the Astros won't specifically because "You can't go through a rebuild when you have Yordan on your team" and "You can't have Altuve end his career in the same situtation in which he started it" and there's a good chance that both of those thoughts are bouncing around inside Crane's dome to the detriment of the organization over the next 4 years or the length of Altuve's remaining career.

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Well then he needs to commit money above the tax line if he doesn't want to rebuild. But straddling the line won't work with the lack of farm system we currently have. He has 2 choices…fire sale and rebuild or drop some coin and bring in some players that are difference makers. There is zero middle ground unless he wants to stay where we are.

I'm going to go with "do nothing and look stupid"

lmao

It's VERY IMPORTANT that nobody tells Jim Crane that this kid exists https://t.co/UEXkYiaThD

— Spencer Morris (@ProspectSpencer) July 20, 2026

BTKAG97 said:

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EastCoastAgNc said:

---

Chandler sees no scenario in which they sell off controllable guys because Him doesn't want to rebuild. That would be the dumbest thing ever

---

Yeah, it sounded like Chandler and Tyler believe the Astros should be sellers, but they believe the Astros won't specifically because "You can't go through a rebuild when you have Yordan on your team" and "You can't have Altuve end his career in the same situtation in which he started it" and there's a good chance that both of those thoughts are bouncing around inside Crane's dome to the detriment of the organization over the next 4 years or the length of Altuve's remaining career.

---

Chandler Rome reiterated, rather emphatically, that Jim Crane committed to not trading Yordan. Also, he was adamant that there would be no "hard" sell, but maybe a marginal move here or there. Both agreed that the post-deadline roster will look very much like what you see now.

If true, we won't have much to discuss on this thread for the rest of the season. lol

Marvin said:

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BTKAG97 said:

---

EastCoastAgNc said:

---

Chandler sees no scenario in which they sell off controllable guys because Him doesn't want to rebuild. That would be the dumbest thing ever

---

Yeah, it sounded like Chandler and Tyler believe the Astros should be sellers, but they believe the Astros won't specifically because "You can't go through a rebuild when you have Yordan on your team" and "You can't have Altuve end his career in the same situtation in which he started it" and there's a good chance that both of those thoughts are bouncing around inside Crane's dome to the detriment of the organization over the next 4 years or the length of Altuve's remaining career.

---

Chandler Rome reiterated, rather emphatically, that Jim Crane committed to not trading Yordan. Also, he was adamant that there would be no "hard" sell, but maybe a marginal move here or there. Both agreed that the post-deadline roster will look very much like what you see now.

If true, we won't have much to discuss on this thread for the rest of the season. lol

---

Every day that Espada still has a job will give us at least one topic...

txags92 said:

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Marvin said:

---

BTKAG97 said:

---

EastCoastAgNc said:

---

Chandler sees no scenario in which they sell off controllable guys because Him doesn't want to rebuild. That would be the dumbest thing ever

---

Yeah, it sounded like Chandler and Tyler believe the Astros should be sellers, but they believe the Astros won't specifically because "You can't go through a rebuild when you have Yordan on your team" and "You can't have Altuve end his career in the same situtation in which he started it" and there's a good chance that both of those thoughts are bouncing around inside Crane's dome to the detriment of the organization over the next 4 years or the length of Altuve's remaining career.

---

Chandler Rome reiterated, rather emphatically, that Jim Crane committed to not trading Yordan. Also, he was adamant that there would be no "hard" sell, but maybe a marginal move here or there. Both agreed that the post-deadline roster will look very much like what you see now.

If true, we won't have much to discuss on this thread for the rest of the season. lol

---

Every day that Espada still has a job will give us at least one topic...

---

Don't forget Dana Brown.

Marvin said:

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txags92 said:

---

Marvin said:

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BTKAG97 said:

---

EastCoastAgNc said:

---

Chandler sees no scenario in which they sell off controllable guys because Him doesn't want to rebuild. That would be the dumbest thing ever

---

Yeah, it sounded like Chandler and Tyler believe the Astros should be sellers, but they believe the Astros won't specifically because "You can't go through a rebuild when you have Yordan on your team" and "You can't have Altuve end his career in the same situtation in which he started it" and there's a good chance that both of those thoughts are bouncing around inside Crane's dome to the detriment of the organization over the next 4 years or the length of Altuve's remaining career.

---

Chandler Rome reiterated, rather emphatically, that Jim Crane committed to not trading Yordan. Also, he was adamant that there would be no "hard" sell, but maybe a marginal move here or there. Both agreed that the post-deadline roster will look very much like what you see now.

If true, we won't have much to discuss on this thread for the rest of the season. lol

---

Every day that Espada still has a job will give us at least one topic...

---

Don't forget Dana Brown.

---

Oh yeah, and the medical staff. That is 3. Can we milk "Scott Boras sucks" and "Pena is built like Charmin" for a few weeks too?

Marvin said:

---

BTKAG97 said:

---

EastCoastAgNc said:

---

Chandler sees no scenario in which they sell off controllable guys because Him doesn't want to rebuild. That would be the dumbest thing ever

---

Yeah, it sounded like Chandler and Tyler believe the Astros should be sellers, but they believe the Astros won't specifically because "You can't go through a rebuild when you have Yordan on your team" and "You can't have Altuve end his career in the same situtation in which he started it" and there's a good chance that both of those thoughts are bouncing around inside Crane's dome to the detriment of the organization over the next 4 years or the length of Altuve's remaining career.

---

Chandler Rome reiterated, rather emphatically, that Jim Crane committed to not trading Yordan. Also, he was adamant that there would be no "hard" sell, but maybe a marginal move here or there. Both agreed that the post-deadline roster will look very much like what you see now.

If true, we won't have much to discuss on this thread for the rest of the season. lol

---

We can still speculate on the new bargaining agreement.

Speaking of, shouldn't that be another credible reason to be sellers? I hear people state "you shouldn't sell because you don't know what the new agreement will look like", but wouldn't it be beneficial to dump salary for up-and-coming, low cost talent in order to have a "clean slate" to take advantage of any and all changes associated with the new agreement?

Worst records over the last 162 games… pic.twitter.com/6Fln6sT072

— Astros Future (@AstrosFuture) July 19, 2026

jkag89 said:

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Worst records over the last 162 games… pic.twitter.com/6Fln6sT072

— Astros Future (@AstrosFuture) July 19, 2026

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But sure…let's just stay pat and not sell our very few assets we have that can get us anything

75-87 - the precise record of the 1990 Houston Astros team I've mentioned all year as what this team feels like. They were smart enough to pull the plug and rebuild. In 1990, their average starter in the field was 29 years old and only Biggio was under 25. In 1991, it was 23, and only Casey Candaele was older than 28.

1990 pitching staff - 4 man rotation were ages 30, 35, 27, 31; bullpen big 5 were 35,34,32,37,35.

1991 pitching staff - 4 man rotation were 24, 28, 31, 22; bullpen big 5 were 25, 29, 24, 29, 25

They only lost 10 more games (65-97) and were back to 81-81 in 1992 and 85-77 in '93. A likely playoff team in '94 if not for the strike.

My biggest critique is on the tone and culture that is set from the top. That's what is missing from this team. There are talent gaps, sure.

Look at people like Luhnow (or Theo Epstein, who broke both curses). Their focus on winning is so sharp and the demands and goals are so clear, the right people self-select to be involved. One can argue (successfully) that Luhnow pushed that win-at-all-costs culture too far and it bit him (as it does so many McKinsey people). Go look at what Epstein did in his first year or two with Boston. It shows what culture means and that you can't hamstring team leadership. They traded Nomar.

And at the end of the day, Jim is the one responsible for these two having such positions. He has overcorrected to the Luhnow controversy by pulling in the reins as tighter control. He's also used it to say "analytics are bad" when what he should say is "they aren't 100% of the story". But these tight reins are now choking the organization. He needs to find good people and let them go do work.

Dana is a has-been/never-was that doesn't know how to lead an organization from the top. He's a former scout, not an executive and he thinks like a scout who is trying to find value and a bunch of players--not stars and not building a team that complements each other. He has failed to put together depth at the major league level. Joe is lackluster and for all the roster deficiencies, has some truly braindead in-game tendencies--the kind of decisions that wreck the clubhouse's morale. I don't get the sense that players especially see him as a strong leader, and that's what you need during a 162-game season.

Throw in some bad contracts and injury luck (is it even luck anymore?) and you get what we have this year.

If the goal is to compete next year, no reason a competent GM couldn't put this team (or something close to it) together next year if the season were to actually get played and if you can go all the way to the luxury tax. But you have to be allowed to get rid of some contracts this year (Walker being primary to reallocate those dollars. We will have some cap space to work with for at least one large signing.

STARTERS

• Skubal/Burnes (this is your huge splash, don't assets--just sign one - $40M+ I'd bet, if you don't do this, sign a journeyman and spend huge on a bat/trade)
• Brown
• Javier/Blanco - whoever looks good
• Imai (no way he opts out, otherwise would fill this with a more value-focused signing)
• Wesneski (or trade him for assets and re-sign Lambert)
• You can have Arrighetti/Farm system for depth

BULLPEN

• Santa
• VanWey
• De Los Santos
• King
• Okert (re-sign)
• Blubaugh
• Loaisaiga / Soto / Jiminez (your big bullpen signing)
• Hader
• Depth from all your minor league pieces

INFIELD

• Paredes (alternatively, trade Paredes and sign someone like Bauers)
• Altuve
• Pena (no value available really at SS, need to keep him and keep improving, if you trade, Correa has to play short)
• Correa
• Keep two depth pieces like Allen, Dezenzo, etc.

CATCHER

• Diaz (would love to trade, but isn't going to have a ton of value - this is where a manager can shine)
• Heim / Rodgers would be better than Diaz at this point, otherwise, sign a $1M back-up

OUTFIELD

• Smith
• Suzuki/Arozarena (this is your bat signing and primary re-allocation of Walker $$)
• A signing like Lane Thomas or Varsho (bounce back candidate?) - or you have to depend on minors
• Alvarez (DH)
• Depth pieces (not Meyers)

MaxPower said:

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I still think yall are highly overrating the manager. There's no one on the bench that is clearly better than guys getting starts. Our 5-9 hitters and bench are all trash. Our 3-5 starters are trash that replaced the first batch of trash. On the bullpen, we have Hader and a bunch of decent guys. Maybe you could say he held out on King for too long (all of 5 appearances) but I think about any manager gives him that leash as good as he has been for 1.5 years. The team isn't good, the sooner you accept that the better. Joe should be fired but you need to accept the let down that this team will still suck afterwards and if we somehow make the playoffs by default we will get smoked the first round.

---

The manager's job is to set the tone for the TEAM. The GM sets the tone for the organizational strategy. Well, we have no org strategy. That's not on Espada. But the mindset, approach, style of play, AND in game decisions are all on the manager. This isn't a one off thing. Since he took over, the team has been lazier at the plate, lost its killer instinct (outside of Yordan), and turned boneheaded errors and decisions into a semi regular occurance.

Stop goaltending for this manager. He's not just terrible. He belongs nowhere near a decision making role.

Marvin said:

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BTKAG97 said:

---

EastCoastAgNc said:

---

Chandler sees no scenario in which they sell off controllable guys because Him doesn't want to rebuild. That would be the dumbest thing ever

---

Yeah, it sounded like Chandler and Tyler believe the Astros should be sellers, but they believe the Astros won't specifically because "You can't go through a rebuild when you have Yordan on your team" and "You can't have Altuve end his career in the same situtation in which he started it" and there's a good chance that both of those thoughts are bouncing around inside Crane's dome to the detriment of the organization over the next 4 years or the length of Altuve's remaining career.

---

Chandler Rome reiterated, rather emphatically, that Jim Crane committed to not trading Yordan. Also, he was adamant that there would be no "hard" sell, but maybe a marginal move here or there. Both agreed that the post-deadline roster will look very much like what you see now.

If true, we won't have much to discuss on this thread for the rest of the season. lol

---

He doesn't understand we cant half ass our way out of this. You could half ass one of these areas in the past, coaching, front office, farm system, current roster, but we are so mediocre in all of these areas there's no coming back.

You have to build it from the ground up again. There's zero chance he built his fortune using a similar path he's deployed the past 3 years. Then again, many super wealthy don't acknowledge the sheer luck they've had to get there.

BTKAG97 said:

---

EastCoastAgNc said:

---

Chandler sees no scenario in which they sell off controllable guys because Him doesn't want to rebuild. That would be the dumbest thing ever

---

Yeah, it sounded like Chandler and Tyler believe the Astros should be sellers, but they believe the Astros won't specifically because "You can't go through a rebuild when you have Yordan on your team" and "You can't have Altuve end his career in the same situtation in which he started it" and there's a good chance that both of those thoughts are bouncing around inside Crane's dome to the detriment of the organization over the next 4 years or the length of Altuve's remaining career.

---

If those are things determining the future, especially how long it takes us to get to a competitive future, then its going to exactly as I've warned for years now. We are in 2006. We won't be in blow up mode until the end of the 20's. Yordan is a better/younger version of Berkman and Brown is a better/younger version of Oswalt. And we likely won't do the smart thing and deal them like we did back then.

Brace yourselves. The mid 2030's are a LONG way away.

Buck Compton - great point.
A good manager would be up Diaz's ass all day every day about his lack of GAS and the fact that he looks 15-20 lbs overweight. Justice for Dusty keeping Diaz on the bench half the time in '23!

Fire Sale time. Everyone but Altuve goes, even Yordan. Get some top prospects for him before he goes on the DL again. But watch them bring in some overpaid stop gap that doesnt make any difference...

Oswalt > H.B.

especially in innings pitched

Roy O. threw 233 innings in his second season

he threw 240 innings in his fifth season

remarkable durability

Buck Compton said:

---

If the goal is to compete next year, no reason a competent GM couldn't put this team (or something close to it) together next year if the season were to actually get played and if you can go all the way to the luxury tax. But you have to be allowed to get rid of some contracts this year (Walker being primary to reallocate those dollars. We will have some cap space to work with for at least one large signing.

STARTERS

• Skubal/Burnes (this is your huge splash, don't assets--just sign one - $40M+ I'd bet, if you don't do this, sign a journeyman and spend huge on a bat/trade)
• Brown
• Javier/Blanco - whoever looks good
• Imai (no way he opts out, otherwise would fill this with a more value-focused signing)
• Wesneski (or trade him for assets and re-sign Lambert)
• You can have Arrighetti/Farm system for depth

BULLPEN

• Santa
• VanWey
• De Los Santos
• King
• Okert (re-sign)
• Blubaugh
• Loaisaiga / Soto / Jiminez (your big bullpen signing)
• Hader
• Depth from all your minor league pieces

INFIELD

• Paredes (alternatively, trade Paredes and sign someone like Bauers)
• Altuve
• Pena (no value available really at SS, need to keep him and keep improving, if you trade, Correa has to play short)
• Correa
• Keep two depth pieces like Allen, Dezenzo, etc.

CATCHER

• Diaz (would love to trade, but isn't going to have a ton of value - this is where a manager can shine)
• Heim / Rodgers would be better than Diaz at this point, otherwise, sign a $1M back-up

OUTFIELD

• Smith
• Suzuki/Arozarena (this is your bat signing and primary re-allocation of Walker $$)
• A signing like Lane Thomas or Varsho (bounce back candidate?) - or you have to depend on minors
• Alvarez (DH)
• Depth pieces (not Meyers)

---

Totally agree with the first half of your post re: Dana and Joe. Regarding the 2nd half, If there is a season in 2027 and we spend a bunch of cash and trade away Walker to end up with 2 new OFs, 1 new reliever, and 1 new SP, we had better see a bunch of good bounce back/improvement from the others because that looks alot like this team and we are B.A.D. right now. If that is a 2028 projection, I would consider it a failure if that is where we wind up. We need bigger changes than that, particularly in the SP and bullpen.

I am not going to claim there is a way to know the best way moving forward. I think there are arguments to be made for going for it, retooling, and a full rebuild. I will, however, claim that I do not have faith in the leadership to get us back to the promised land. I agree with Max that managers are given far too much blame and credit. But I don't believe in Espada. I don't believe Brown has any major vision for this team or franchise. He's capable of winning a deal or making a good signing, but big picture-wise he's not it. That leaves Crane. The best owner the Astros have ever had. However, the guy we have now and the guy we had 10 years ago isn't the same. I respect the way Crane is trying to keep the team competitive and keeps the payroll top 10, but he's gotta make the right hires and let them cook. I don't think the trust is there after the sign stealing scandal.

It's time for a youth movement and reset. You keep Correa, Altuve and Yordan to help guide the younger players. You are open and honest with them about the team's direction -- tell them we want you to play the McCann and Beltran roles for the players to teach them how to compete. See if you can resign Yordan for 2029 and beyond -- if he stays healthy.

Trade Brown, Pena, Paredes and Hader -- and anyone else of value. Use your pre-arb players while you restock talent. See which young pitchers do well over the next couple years, and keep those.

Then in 2029 -- you are ready to compete again with Neyens, younger Alvarez and other talent you pick up.