I do agree with this.

The Astros reinstated Taylor Trammell from the injured list and added him to their active roster. Shay Whitcomb was optioned to clear a spot.

— Chandler Rome (@Chandler_Rome) June 23, 2025

redline248 said:

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.743 OPS is bad or just average?

I admit that even last year when I watched Diaz I often thought "how does he ever get a hit." He looks like he's just hacking and praying to make contact, but obviously he's better than that. It's something about his swing that just looks weird. IDK

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I guess it just depends on whether a sub-.750 OPS *on just the occasions where the pitcher makes the mistake of throwing something hittable on the first pitch* from your 4th or 5th hitter is good enough in your estimation.

texasaggie2015 said:

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The Astros reinstated Taylor Trammell from the injured list and added him to their active roster. Shay Whitcomb was optioned to clear a spot.

— Chandler Rome (@Chandler_Rome) June 23, 2025

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That's the equivalent of rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

I'm not saying we are the titanic. I'm just saying it's a meaningless move in the scheme of things. And it said Whitcomb is worthless.

Heineken-Ashi said:

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txags92 said:

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Heineken-Ashi said:

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txags92 said:

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Heineken-Ashi said:

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MaxPower said:

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For those who think Jose's defense at 2B isn't awful.

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Not great. But when the team is healthy, we have way more eligible outfielders I want playing then eligible infielders.

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We are not healthy and do not have better OF options than IF options right now. As bad as the Dubon/Rodgers combo at 2B looks, they are better than what is in line behind Altuve to play LF right now.

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Again, Altuve isn't really costing much defensively at 2B. And he provides FAR more value than Rogers, and its not close. He could commit an error every game and still be 3x as valuable at 2B as Rogers.

Show me how exactly how many runs Altuve has cost us at 2B. Not a fangraphs stat that projects a defensive metric and attempts to correlate it to runs.. but how many runs have actually crossed the plate because of Altuve's defense.

Dubon is on a heater. I'm perfectly fine with him manning 2B and Altuve in LF. Because Hummell is trash.

But when Yordan comes back, he needs to be in LF at least half the time, and for sure at all away games.

Add in Melton and Dezenzo at some point, and there's too many options more valuable than a non-hot Dubon and worst player on the team Rogers to have Altuve in LF.

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The statistics completely disagree with you. It isn't just errors, it is his lack of range to get to balls headed for the gap and how often he fails to turn two when the play was there to be made. How many Framber meltdowns last year got kicked off by a perfect DP ground ball that either wasn't reached by Altuve, got booted, or just didn't get turned because he has lost more than a step? You and BadAggie keep wanting to pretend I am advocating for somebody else to completely take Altuve's place in the lineup, but that isn't the case at all. I want to put him at a position where his lack of defense can be best overcome by the players replacing him at the other position. I would rather see him DH honestly, but we don't have another serviceable LF right now if Dubon is going to play 2B.

You can say when this happens or that happens, then we should have so and so play LF. Well those things aren't happening yet, so all this talk of sending Altuve back to 2B or DH just ignores that we have no better option available right now.

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You're the one claiming the data supports your argument. You tell me. How many runs did Altuve actually cost? And how many offensive runs that he produced could have been replaced with him in LF and Dubon or Rogers at 2B?

As has been mentioned, you are focused entirely too much on defense. We have a GREAT defense. 1 soft spot isn't a huge deal when the player performs better than any potential replacement at the plate.

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There are tons of different stats to chose from if you don't like dWar. How about outs above average? Altuve is negative at 2B, Dubon is positive, both for 2024 and 2025. Same for Fielding Run Value. I am not going to go back and dig through 162 games of plays by Altuve and pull film clips for you, because Statcast has already done that for us and the stats above are the outcome from that review. I know you are convinced that this is just a MLB statisticians vendetta against Jose and that he can do no wrong in your eyes, but the rest of us who are willing to be honest with ourselves about his limitations remember all the times during games when he missed balls he should have gotten to or failed to turn double plays because he couldn't get the ball out of his glove. And it is not a small sample size. Over the entire season in 2024, he was the worst starting 2B in the AL defensively.

So if I am too focused on defense for you, lets turn it around then. If Jose is playing LF or DH, is he still a part of the offense? Yes. There problem solved. So who is the outfielder in our current roster that is not injured that you think is valuable enough on offense that they should be playing LF instead of Jose? If you put Altuve at 2B or DH, then you are benching Dubon (2B) or somebody like Caratini (DH). So who is it you want to see play LF that it outhitting those guys right now and isn't injured?

It's amazing to me the Diaz is hitting as well as he is. His ass and weight are headed towards the on deck circle behind him every time he swings.
While Walker is not doing so good on fastballs, his chasing not even competitive breaking pitches down and away harkens back to the days of Enos Cabell. Yikes !

Beat40 said:

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texasaggie2015 said:

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I don't know how anyone can watch Altuve play second and come away thinking he's still okay there.

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I think it's a cost and trade off: when all are healthy, what makes the overall Astros better? Altuve in LF or at 2B so Yordan can get some LF time? Both need to be in the lineup, and quite frankly, I want both Yanier and Caratini in the lineup too. So, if Altuve at 2B means we get all 4 of those bats in the lineup on a consistent basis, is that worth giving up the few more hits at 2B if Altuve is there?

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Yeah, when you have those 4 guys healthy and hitting well and need to fit them into the LF, C, 2B, and DH slots in the lineup, Altuve at 2B makes the most sense, assuming that his defensive limitations are overcome by the additional offense you gain by having Caratini or Diaz at DH. But in the situation we are in now, where Yordan is hurt and Diaz and Caratini are not setting the world on fire with their bats, the defensive value of Dubon over Altuve at 2B is meaningful, especially since we have nobody of value to play LF if Altuve doesn't.

I'm sure the coaching staff pulls their hair out over stats/splits like this:

Yainer has .943 OPS when ahead in the count

but he only gets ahead in the count in 28% of his PA's

Beau Holder said:

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redline248 said:

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.743 OPS is bad or just average?

I admit that even last year when I watched Diaz I often thought "how does he ever get a hit." He looks like he's just hacking and praying to make contact, but obviously he's better than that. It's something about his swing that just looks weird. IDK

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I guess it just depends on whether a sub-.750 OPS *on just the occasions where the pitcher makes the mistake of throwing something hittable on the first pitch* from your 4th or 5th hitter is good enough in your estimation.

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I'm just saying I'm ok with him swinging at the 1st pitch most of the time, b/c it's a massive drop off if he goes down 0-1. Granted, I want him swinging at things in the zone, and I'm not arguing that he's Ted Williams or anything close.

Similar as with Walker, Diaz's flaws are magnified without Yordan in the lineup. Unfortunately, that might be for a long time

W said:

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I'm sure the coaching staff pulls their hair out over stats/splits like this:

Yainer has .943 OPS when ahead in the count

but he only gets ahead in the count in 28% of his PA's

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There is a solution to this dilemma. Don't let him swing. Let's be honest. He had no clue what the strike zone is and at this stage he's not going to suddenly learn it. The only way to solve it is not let him swing at everything. Just give him a take sign. Or not let him bat.

I'll bet without looking that he is easily in the top 10 in MLB in fewest P/AB.

It'd be better to convince him to more selective after the first pitch. He's got to want to do it though.

I'm glad he's taken catching seriously, but he needs to get with Pena this offseason and work on pitch recognition with him in a serious manner.

texasaggie2015 said:

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MaxPower said:

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I would not be shocked if Yordan is traded in the offseason so they can DH Jose

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I would be stunned.

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Yeah that would not be prudent at all. First of all, any trading partner would be HIGHLY skeptical of Yordan's injury history and would suspect we feel he's damaged goods. They would rightfully lowball us and hope we are desperate enough to accept the terms.

Secondly, if he does regain his health you have a player with a VERY favorable contract compared to his output that you just unloaded for very little return.

redline248 said:

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.743 OPS is bad or just average?

I admit that even last year when I watched Diaz I often thought "how does he ever get a hit." He looks like he's just hacking and praying to make contact, but obviously he's better than that. It's something about his swing that just looks weird. IDK

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While the numbers change from year to year...

Considered Good+ Stats

Hitting = .270+
Slugging = .500+

Therefore OPS = .770+

With that said, .743 should be consideed average to good. The mean OPS for 2025 currently is .714 (pulled from quick google search).

6/27/25. pic.twitter.com/4PRhHSgVZJ

— Houston Astros (@astros) June 23, 2025

About to be another awful hat that none of us will buy

Walker is almost up to .700 ops for June. Not great, but much better then he started.

We can keep filling up this thread with this debate if ya'll really want to, guys, but Alruve isnt going back to 2nd permanently this year. Even when Yordan is back.

The organization has made that quite, quite clear.

Silent For Too Long said:

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We can keep filling up this thread with this debate if ya'll really want to, guys, but Alruve isnt going back to 2nd permanently this year. Even when Yordan is back.

The organization has made that quite, quite clear.

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Some folks just don't want to see what is easily seen.

On the other hand, would you rather we circled back to hitting coaches?

Ideal lineup with Yordan?

SS Pena
LF Yordan
2B Altuve
3B Paredes
1B Walker
C Diaz
DH Caratini
RF Smith
CF Meyers

That probably outweighs whatever loss you get from Altuve at 2B. I'll concede Altuve to LF or DH in Framber starts

edit: obviously doesn't matter until Yordan returns

Silent For Too Long said:

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We can keep filling up this thread with this debate if ya'll really want to, guys, but Alruve isnt going back to 2nd permanently this year. Even when Yordan is back.

The organization has made that quite, quite clear.

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Agreed but the silly part is he stinks at either spot. I don't know how anyone can vehemently argue he play one spot or another. It's a pure preference thing, like would you rather smell a fresh turd or rank body odor. Who cares?

redline248 said:

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Ideal lineup with Yordan?

SS Pena
LF Yordan
2B Altuve
3B Paredes
1B Walker
C Diaz
DH Caratini
RF Smith
CF Meyers

That probably outweighs whatever loss you get from Altuve at 2B. I'll concede Altuve to LF or DH in Framber starts

edit: obviously doesn't matter until Yordan returns

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Also assumes Caratini outhitting Dubon, which is not the case right now. If Caratini vs Dubon is a wash, I am putting Dubon at 2B and Altuve at DH. But Caratini does have value as the other LH bat in the lineup so I could see it going either way. I am also not in love with Walker hitting 4/5 until he shows some consistent improvement.

MaxPower said:

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Silent For Too Long said:

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We can keep filling up this thread with this debate if ya'll really want to, guys, but Alruve isnt going back to 2nd permanently this year. Even when Yordan is back.

The organization has made that quite, quite clear.

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Agreed but the silly part is he stinks at either spot. I don't know how anyone can vehemently argue he play one spot or another. It's a pure preference thing, like would you rather smell a fresh turd or rank body odor. Who cares?

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When our two aces are GB pitchers, you want the best defense you can get in the infield. Easy preference to put Altuve in LF.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2025/06/astros-trade-rumors-left-handed-bat.html

I wish the article talked about what the Astros would have to give up for a major league lefty bat

maybe there's a team that just wants to dump payroll

The conversation isn't is Altuve is the best option for 2B. The conversation is about Altuve at 2B being the better overall move to maximize the offense.

Of course you want the best infield defense you can with GB pitchers. Right now the conversation isn't super controversial as there are so many injuries and there isn't a viable OF replacement, but when Yordan is healthy, this question will be the crux of the conversation: will the runs saved on defense outpace runs created on offense?

MaxPower said:

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https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2025/06/astros-trade-rumors-left-handed-bat.html

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So $5.5mm under tax threshold

Castro
Lowe
Donovan

Not bad ideas.

Maybe Dana can get Crane to prove what a big baller he is and go after a rental like Suarez from the DBacks. Sure, not a lefty bat but more impactful from a production standpoint.

They're hiding his defense for sure. Personally, I don't think the org can take such a hardline stance on Altuve as a primarily LFer once Yordan comes back. At worst Yordan will split the remaining between LF and DH. What I feel the org will do is split DH and LF between Altuve and Yordan, but I personally think that's a mistake. I think the offense needs Caratini on days Diaz catches, which causes some problems if you're planning to swap DH and LF with Altuve and Yordan only.

Castro should be very attainable if the Twins are selling. I wouldn't mind that option at all.

MaxPower said:

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https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2025/06/astros-trade-rumors-left-handed-bat.html

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Two lefty bats that I know the Astros have asked about recently are Josh Naylor and Nolan Gorman.

texasaggie2015 said:

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MaxPower said:

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https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2025/06/astros-trade-rumors-left-handed-bat.html

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Two lefty bats that I know the Astros have asked about recently are Josh Naylor and Nolan Gorman.

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That doesn't feel good

checking in on Forrest Whitley. In his first three appearances with the Rays he had worked 3.2 innings and given up one hit and no runs with one K and no walks.

Yesterday he didn't record an out - threw only 16 pitches (11 strikes) and gave up six straight hits and six runs - no outs.

I guess the positive is no walks in four appearances - but only one strike out as well.

Why not?

Gorman is a lefty infielder who can play both second and third base.
Naylor is one of the best bats that may be available at the deadline. Makes sense to check in.

Beat40 said:

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They're hiding his defense for sure. Personally, I don't think the org can take such a hardline stance on Altuve as a primarily LFer once Yordan comes back. At worst Yordan will split the remaining between LF and DH. What I feel the org will do is split DH and LF between Altuve and Yordan, but I personally think that's a mistake. I think the offense needs Caratini on days Diaz catches, which causes some problems if you're planning to swap DH and LF with Altuve and Yordan only.

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I agree. But I still think it is going to be August before we have to decide where to play Yordan. If we acquire another lefty bat at 2B, the Caratini/Diaz debate may get settled as part of the trade or at the very least it isnt as critical to have Caratinis bat in the lineup.

I agree with you that it is a no brainer decision right now, but there are others here dead set to argue that he should be playing 2B now, even with our injury limitations.

Another $250 flat bill hat that looks like it came from a gas station in San Antonio?

texasaggie2015 said:

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Why not?

Gorman is a lefty infielder who can play both second and third base.
Naylor is one of the best bats that may be available at the deadline. Makes sense to check in.

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Every time Gorman makes an error, we have to call it the Gorman Masscre.