My initial hope was to get him up to the bigs in the bullpen in September…like David Price's start at the MLB level. Not sure that could happen after that tweet.

You can't trade him right now, though. The entire league is of the opinion he's a 2 pitch pitcher. His value is minimal.

I haven't really followed the Leiter saga.

While the Rangers development of SP has not been stellar, I'd ask how many pitchers Al Leiter has developed into MLB SPs. Maybe we're looking for Al and Mark's father. IMO, the only organizations that really produce SPS are the Dodgers and Cardinals. Cleveland has put together a pretty good run, lately. Yankees had a good run with Stottlemeyer. Braves are up there, as well. Reality is, the NL has always produced better pitching which is likely a product of the AL having a DH.

Mark Leiter Jr has struggled and the idea of him being a SP is over. Mark Jr and Jack were drafted about the same out of HS (22rd and 20th). Jack chose the college route.

When you look at Father-Son pitching combos... outside of the Stottlemeyers (Mel and Todd) and the Trouts (Dizzy and Steve), no relation to MIke... there really aren't that many pitchers.

Nothing like the Bonds', Griffey's, Alou's. Even Bobby Witt's son is a SS. Today you have so many sons like Tatis, Guerrero, Bichette...

I trust Maddux.

One other comment... whether it is his dad or something else.

The fact the Rangers have used the Developmental tag on him twice in the last month should indicate he is struggling with the organization. Both times they indicated he was healthy.

In the case of Carter, it was a recovery from an injury that they wanted to give a breather.

A completely valid argument from a performance perspective. However, the other side of that coin is that he was a college pitcher, drafted at 21, is now 23 and going back to developmental list and only getting older by the day. Again, not saying he can't or wont potentially figure it out, but his age will start to mean more and more from a value perspective, and it will only go down from this point forward if he doesn't REALLY put it together again. At least right now a team could still see a somewhat young prospect that has stuff but needs to be contained, whereas if you wait till he's 25+, teams would be more likely to view him as "he is what he is." Your point is completely valid though and would need to be considered heavily.

All this talk about Teams developing pitching got me down a rabbit trail:

This was 12 years ago, but an interesting article.
MLB Power Rankings: Every MLB Team's Greatest Rotation of All Time

Personally, for the Dodgers, that 1966 team... WOW:
Koufax (27-9, 1.73, 317K), Drysdale (13-16, 3.42, 177K), Osteen (17-14, 2.85, 137Ks), Sutton (12-12, 2.99, 209Ks)
3HoFers

Texas Rangers: 1977: Team Record: 94-68, Second in AL West
No. 1: Gaylord Perry (15-12, 3.37 ERA, 177 Ks)
No. 2: Bert Blyleven (14-12, 2.72 ERA, 182 Ks)
No. 3: Doyle Alexander (17-11, 3.65 ERA, 82 Ks)
No. 4: Dock Ellis (10-6, 2.90 ERA, 90 Ks)

Two HoFers but I don't think anyone would associate them with the Rangers.

Top 3 Rangers Ws (as a Ranger)
139 Hough
133 Rogers
104 Witt
93 Jenkins

Martin Perez is T9th at 62, with Holland.

Looking at Leiter's numbers, I think you guys are being too harsh.

2022: 5.54 ERA, 1.554 WHIP
2023: 5.51 ERA, 1.515 WHIP

Progress...

Tksymm7 said:

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A completely valid argument from a performance perspective. However, the other side of that coin is that he was a college pitcher, drafted at 21, is now 23 and going back to developmental list and only getting older by the day. Again, not saying he can't or wont potentially figure it out, but his age will start to mean more and more from a value perspective, and it will only go down from this point forward if he doesn't REALLY put it together again. At least right now a team could still see a somewhat young prospect that has stuff but needs to be contained, whereas if you wait till he's 25+, teams would be more likely to view him as "he is what he is." Your point is completely valid though and would need to be considered heavily.

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Think teams are already at the conclusion that he is what he is. Minor leaguers aren't chasing pitches like college players did and he doesn't have an out pitch he can throw in the zone. The pitching coach in Frisco is trying to convince him to throw his curve for strikes instead of out of the zone.

Mr Gigem said:

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Parking is not sold out. Feel free to email me and I can help you. jchance@texasrangers.com

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Any chance you can still help out with parking today? If so, can go ahead and send you an email?

Game today at 3:05 on FS1, if I see that correctly.

Also, BR is claiming St Louis is interested in Logan Gilbert from Seattle. I'd be super interested in him, 4 years of control.

rbtexan said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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Are we really scapegoating his dad? This franchise hasn't produced a top SP from the farm in decades. The last one actually had to beg to be converted from a RP.

Daddy may not be helping, but he isn't hurting and has every reason to believe his son might get mishandled.

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Every single thing I've read, including comments from scouts outside the Rangers organization, is that Al has been meddling and interfering, arguably hampering Jack's development. If nothing else, contradictory input could at the very least be confusing for a young struggling pitcher. He needs to stay the hell out of it. Ranger's history of developing pitchers has nothing to do with that.

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Links?

I saw one mention of his father having disagreements over something they were trying to do with his delivery months back. Nothing since then.

This idea that his Dad is hampering his development is just people looking for a scapegoat for a top pick that is not wowing anybody in the minors.

And Rangers history of scouting, drafting and development of young pitchers absolutely has something to do with a top arm struggling to take the next step.

https://www.mlb.com/news/potential-2023-trade-candidates-with-rising-stock?partnerID=mlbapp-iOS_article-share

MrCoachEricTaylor said:

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Also, BR is claiming St Louis is interested in Logan Gilbert from Seattle. I'd be super interested in him, 4 years of control.

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If they're actually shopping Gilbert, yes please.

He's my favorite if their big three starters. The article referenced them needing a middle of the order bat. I wonder if you could make a package around Foscue, Harris, and Winn.

cmiller00 said:

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https://www.mlb.com/news/potential-2023-trade-candidates-with-rising-stock?partnerID=mlbapp-iOS_article-share

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Some interesting pitching options on that list. We will see what the price tags are.

When I read that... it indicated that the Mariners have not expressed interest in trading him. The posting sounded like the Cardinals trying to send a public message. I've never seen a team publicly indicate they were interested in another team's player like it was presented.

Quote:

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Texas Rangers: 1977: Team Record: 94-68, Second in AL West
No. 1: Gaylord Perry (15-12, 3.37 ERA, 177 Ks)
No. 2: Bert Blyleven (14-12, 2.72 ERA, 182 Ks)
No. 3: Doyle Alexander (17-11, 3.65 ERA, 82 Ks)
No. 4: Dock Ellis (10-6, 2.90 ERA, 90 Ks)

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I remember this team....also with Toby, Bump, Hargrove, and Sunny

#hastheolds

MrCoachEricTaylor said:

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He's my favorite if their big three starters. The article referenced them needing a middle of the order bat. I wonder if you could make a package around Foscue, Harris, and Winn.

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I'd throw Duran at them if necessary.

I went back and re read it, I see what you mean. I guess I more or less skimmed over the article while trying to tune out my screaming 2 year old in the back seat lol I thought it seemed strange they'd be too interested in moving him. But he'd definitely bring in a good haul if they did.

Yeah, idk how I'd feel about Duran, I'd hate for him to keep improving and start killing us for multiple years haha I thought about maybe Foscue, Garver, and another sweetener. As long as we can find a viable back up DH/back up catcher.

Sborz to the IL for biceps tendonitis.

aggietony2010 said:

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Sborz to the IL for biceps tendonitis.

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Was just coming to post that. Maybe that is related to his struggles his last few outings.

Rangers roster moves for Saturday:
-RHP Josh Sborz placed on 15-day Injured List, retroactive to 7/12, with right biceps tendinitis
-LHP John King recalled from Round Rock (AAA)

— Texas Rangers PR (@TXRangersPR) July 15, 2023

They need bats in a major way. Their lineup leaves a ton to be desired, just like the Brewers. Both organizations have shown that they can really develop pitchers, so maybe you take a gamble in sending a pitcher out in return for a solid MLB bat that is young and can be in the top half of your order (or multiple guys like that). That being said, I would be STUNNED if they traded him.

cmiller00 said:

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https://www.mlb.com/news/potential-2023-trade-candidates-with-rising-stock?partnerID=mlbapp-iOS_article-share

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Interesting that the Rangers are only mentioned for Snell who may or may not be available.

I think it speaks to the NEED vs WANT of a SP.

Lucas Giolito, RHP, White Sox - Potential fits: Dodgers, Orioles, Red Sox
Kyle Hendricks, RHP, Cubs - Potential fits: Orioles, Reds, D-backs
Lance Lynn, RHP, White Sox - Potential fits: Dodgers, Phillies, Red Sox
Jordan Montgomery, LHP, Cardinals - Potential fits: Blue Jays, D-backs, Red Sox

Blake Snell, LHP, Padres - Potential fits: Astros, Rangers, Red Sox


LOTS of teams are becoming more and more desperate for SP.

If you are a fit for Lance Lynn... you are pretty desperate.

Certainly more fun to be a buyer. Still scarred by Matt Garza and Ryan Demster ha.

Yeah the fits don't make a ton of sense. Think he was just trying to not put the same teams every time.

Just looking at results for the last say 20 yrs. I get the part that Rangers dont develop pitchers, but why??? Is there one person continuously involved thru all 20 yrs???? I doubt its organizational approach…doesnt seem logical that the approach has remained constant for 20 yrs. Just why?????

DallasAg 94 said:

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cmiller00 said:

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https://www.mlb.com/news/potential-2023-trade-candidates-with-rising-stock?partnerID=mlbapp-iOS_article-share

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Interesting that the Rangers are only mentioned for Snell who may or may not be available.

I think it speaks to the NEED vs WANT of a SP.

Lucas Giolito, RHP, White Sox - Potential fits: Dodgers, Orioles, Red Sox
Kyle Hendricks, RHP, Cubs - Potential fits: Orioles, Reds, D-backs
Lance Lynn, RHP, White Sox - Potential fits: Dodgers, Phillies, Red Sox
Jordan Montgomery, LHP, Cardinals - Potential fits: Blue Jays, D-backs, Red Sox

Blake Snell, LHP, Padres - Potential fits: Astros, Rangers, Red Sox


LOTS of teams are becoming more and more desperate for SP.

If you are a fit for Lance Lynn... you are pretty desperate.

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Overall he has had a rough year, but the article noted that he has thrown better of late. Might be worth keeping an eye on. He'd come pretty cheap if a team was willing to take on the full salary for the rest of the season

Quote:

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Lance Lynn, RHP, White Sox

The second White Sox starter on our list, Lynn has a 3.86 ERA over his past four starts, the first of which was his 16-strikeout performance against the Mariners on June 18. Lynn, who is holding hitters to a .198 average during that stretch, has 41 strikeouts over his last 25 2/3 innings, including an 11-strikeout game in his last start on July 6. The 36-year-old is in the second year of a two-year, $38 million deal, with a $1 million buyout on his $18 million club option for 2024.

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FYI: game is on both FS1 and BallySW today, so you can pick your choice of announcers if you have both channels.

Man, you cannot sneak a curveball on the hands by Seager.

Ervin Burrell said:

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Sh/tty luck for Jung there.

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No joke. I think between the foul double we got from Seager and that play, we're about even on baseball luck that inning.

Jankowski

Their pitcher is living dangerously.

Hitting against guys like this absolutely blows.