And yet the worse one is playing.texasaggie2015 said:
The Astros in particular are very demanding about what they require out of their catchers.
***** 2023 Houston Astros Season Thread *****
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Last: 8 mo ago by texasaggie2015
Framing, ability to throw out runners, block pitches, etc are all very important.
But that's maybe half of what goes into it. So much of it is behind the scenes and working with pitchers. This is the part which the Astros are quite possibly the most demanding team in the league about.
Again.. I'm just as frustrated about the situation as all of you. But there's so much that goes on that we don't know about.
It is what it is at this point. Let's see how it plays out. We have a division to win and a big home stand coming up.
But that's maybe half of what goes into it. So much of it is behind the scenes and working with pitchers. This is the part which the Astros are quite possibly the most demanding team in the league about.
Again.. I'm just as frustrated about the situation as all of you. But there's so much that goes on that we don't know about.
It is what it is at this point. Let's see how it plays out. We have a division to win and a big home stand coming up.
Because we don't have anything to ***** about for Dusty.Ag_07 said:
And how the TF after last night's performance (a win BTW) and picking up a game in the standings are we still on the subject of fckin Maldonado?
In order:
1) Dusty
2) Maldonado
3) Montero pitching in a high leverage situation
4) Repeat 1-3
I was listening to some national sports talk show late last night on my drive home and they were saying they expect the Yanks to completely blow it up.
New manager, new GM, offloading bad contracts so roster overhaul, etc. They expect the entire organization to look completely different.
Ironic thing is that dating back to 2017 the Yankees have won 91, 100, 103, 33 (COVID), 92, and 99 games but have nothing to show for it.
All that to say this...The Astros broke the Yankees.
New manager, new GM, offloading bad contracts so roster overhaul, etc. They expect the entire organization to look completely different.
Ironic thing is that dating back to 2017 the Yankees have won 91, 100, 103, 33 (COVID), 92, and 99 games but have nothing to show for it.
All that to say this...The Astros broke the Yankees.
Alright, I obviously am not in the clubhouse and yeah, I don't know ****Ag_07 said:Quote:
They aren't making a strong enough effort to get him acclimated to the position - that isn't opinion, that is straight up fact.
Really?
Everything I have heard or read points to this actually not being a fact.
But I don't know for sure because I'm not in the clubhouse.
BUT, I do know that actual real time experience is the best way to further hone in your skill. That is true of every trade known to man. You (generally) can't tell me the organization is doing enough when he only catches once every 5/6 games and gives deference to the absolute worst catcher in all of baseball.
Anyway, I know I'm part of the problem in the Maldy **** show we have going on here, but we are in a dogfight with Texas and its quite possible the division comes down to 1 game or a tie...those are high freaking stakes.
Sorry, I skimmed over this post previously, and I can't help myself...texasaggie2015 said:
Trust me, I get it. I'm just repeating what I've been told all year.
The Astros in particular are very demanding about what they require out of their catchers.
Which obviously doesn't include being able to hit, or block or throw out runners.
Which, again, at the catcher position is important. But it's maybe half of what goes into it.redline248 said:Sorry, I skimmed over this post previously, and I can't help myself...texasaggie2015 said:
Trust me, I get it. I'm just repeating what I've been told all year.
The Astros in particular are very demanding about what they require out of their catchers.
Which obviously doesn't include being able to hit, or block or throw out runners.
It really makes you appreciate this recent run. It's so damn hard to win a championship. It's even harder to win two in a short window. I try my best not to take this team for granted.
It really is. I remember being happy as hell to win the wild card and get our butts kicked in the first round by the Braves. I also remember just being happy to beat the Cards in the regular season.
I remember in 2005, they interviewed Biggio after we won the NLCS and he was all smiles saying "I just wanted to go once." While we were all ecstatic with that series, this was definitely the mentality and mindset of that 8-10 year run of seasons. Great teams, but we never had that killer/confident swagger. Not only do we have that now, we are hated. Its glorious!ttha_aggie_09 said:
It really is. I remember being happy as hell to win the wild card and get our butts kicked in the first round by the Braves. I also remember just being happy to beat the Cards in the regular season.
I'm interested to see what happens to Boone. I expect that he won't survive but where does he end up
I always though he was the reason for the Yankees shortcomings but now I'm not sure. I'm not sure anyone can manage that roster any better.
Hypothetical for the off-day...After Dusty is gone after winning back to back titles. Would Boone be a good fit here? Boone or Espada?
I always though he was the reason for the Yankees shortcomings but now I'm not sure. I'm not sure anyone can manage that roster any better.
Hypothetical for the off-day...After Dusty is gone after winning back to back titles. Would Boone be a good fit here? Boone or Espada?
I remember how ecstatic I was just to win a playoff series. It's crazy how much things have changed.
When we got swept in the WS in 2005, it definitely sucked.. but I remember still thinking "well.. I never thought I would see my team in the World Series so that was pretty cool regardless".
Things are so different now. We might win 95-96 games if we keep up the current second half pace and we sound so defeated at times. This run has been nothing short of incredible.
When we got swept in the WS in 2005, it definitely sucked.. but I remember still thinking "well.. I never thought I would see my team in the World Series so that was pretty cool regardless".
Things are so different now. We might win 95-96 games if we keep up the current second half pace and we sound so defeated at times. This run has been nothing short of incredible.
I want no part of Boone. I think Espada is the guy, but I expect Dana to have a lot of say in who the next man up will be.
I don't think Boone is the problem in the Bronx but I don't know if he's done anything to help either. It's hard to say.
I don't think Boone is the problem in the Bronx but I don't know if he's done anything to help either. It's hard to say.
Astros are a little unlucky Ohtani is a FA this year. Even though his contract may be reported as one number, I almost guarantee MLB TV, ESPN and all other sports networks are going to break it down as two separate contracts - pitcher and hitter for comparison.Farmer1906 said:
On a noncatcher note, TED has moved up the #1 in the AL and #2 overall in RBI.
What that hitter breakdown looks like is going to factor into the market for all other hitters. Tucker is wisely, for his own sake, waiting to see what that is.
If Ohtani wasn't going to be a FA now, but in 3 years, I think there would be a possibility to get a deal done with Tucker where it could be 8ish years to avoid 2 years of arb.
I personally would be willing to do a 10 year deal now while he's 26, avoid 2 years of arb, and it's essentially an 8 year deal where he's a FA at 36. Paying for his prime and letting someone else pay for his backend.
Guess we'll see what happens in the offseason.
That pretty much how I feel and why I think it'll be interesting to follow his career after this.
I think this is easy to forget. If we were to win just one more title...this year or in the next couple of years, we would accomplish something that has only been done 3 times in the entire lifetime of our franchise...winning 3 titles in less than a decade.texasaggie2015 said:
It really makes you appreciate this recent run. It's so damn hard to win a championship. It's even harder to win two in a short window. I try my best not to take this team for granted.
Oakland won 3 straight titles from '72-'74...but did not have any other World Series appearances in that run before or after.
The Yankees won 4 out of 5 obviously in the late '90s and had 2 other trips to the World Series
San Francisco won 3 in 5 years...2010, 2012, 2014...no other World Series appearances in that 10 year window.
Heck, just getting there one more time, even if we don't win would be 5 trips within a 10 year span...that's only been done twice before since we came into existence.
Pass on Boone.texasaggie2015 said:
I want no part of Boone. I think Espada is the guy, but I expect Dana to have a lot of say in who the next man up will be.
I don't think Boone is the problem in the Bronx but I don't know if he's done anything to help either. It's hard to say.
The Yanks have more problems than Boone, but I think if he uses his bullpen differently in a couple of the ALCS series against the Stros, they win. He Dave Roberts'ed a couple of those series.
pass on boone, imo he's a drama queen who thinks everything wrong is always someone elses faultAg_07 said:
I'm interested to see what happens to Boone. I expect that he won't survive but where does he end up
I always though he was the reason for the Yankees shortcomings but now I'm not sure. I'm not sure anyone can manage that roster any better.
Hypothetical for the off-day...After Dusty is gone after winning back to back titles. Would Boone be a good fit here? Boone or Espada?
https://ts.la/eric59704
It's an interesting comparison between King Tuck and Ohtani.
My gut is if you switched them Ohtani would have even better stats and Tuck a little worse. Yet Ohtani has other things going for him that will make him much more valuable (and a higher risk) than Tuck. The fan following and his ability to be an all-star pitcher in addition to a top 3 hitter in the league is something a right fielder (for now) just can't match.
I don't blame Tuck for trying to maximize earnings, but Ohtani isn't a good comp. Mookie Betts isn't really either. So I'm not really sure what salary comp is realistic for him.
My gut is if you switched them Ohtani would have even better stats and Tuck a little worse. Yet Ohtani has other things going for him that will make him much more valuable (and a higher risk) than Tuck. The fan following and his ability to be an all-star pitcher in addition to a top 3 hitter in the league is something a right fielder (for now) just can't match.
I don't blame Tuck for trying to maximize earnings, but Ohtani isn't a good comp. Mookie Betts isn't really either. So I'm not really sure what salary comp is realistic for him.
from what I know everyone loves Boone. He is a players manager like Dusty, except he is huge on analytics. I know when my boy was traded over the offseason he was pissed because he really enjoyed playing for Boone. He also told me that the Yankees and Astros have the two best analytic staffs in MLB. I know both teams give each pitcher a detailed scouting report specifically for them prior to each series. While basically all teams do this, 95% of them aren't as detailed as the yanks and astros and are not specific for each pitcher on the team.
I agree. Similar to Hinch in the playoffs.Beat40 said:Pass on Boone.texasaggie2015 said:
I want no part of Boone. I think Espada is the guy, but I expect Dana to have a lot of say in who the next man up will be.
I don't think Boone is the problem in the Bronx but I don't know if he's done anything to help either. It's hard to say.
The Yanks have more problems than Boone, but I think if he uses his bullpen differently in a couple of the ALCS series against the Stros, they win. He Dave Roberts'ed a couple of those series.
It is a fine line between too much analytics and old school Dusty style. The key is finding the manager who excels at both.
Lucas Luetge?AustinCountyAg said:
from what I know everyone loves Boone. He is a players manager like Dusty, except he is huge on analytics. I know when my boy was traded over the offseason he was pissed because he really enjoyed playing for Boone. He also told me that the Yankees and Astros have the two best analytic staffs in MLB. I know both teams give each pitcher a detailed scouting report specifically for them prior to each series. While basically all teams do this, 95% of them aren't as detailed as the yanks and astros and are not specific for each pitcher on the team.
https://ts.la/eric59704
JDUB08AG said:I remember in 2005, they interviewed Biggio after we won the NLCS and he was all smiles saying "I just wanted to go once." While we were all ecstatic with that series, this was definitely the mentality and mindset of that 8-10 year run of seasons. Great teams, but we never had that killer/confident swagger. Not only do we have that now, we are hated. Its glorious!ttha_aggie_09 said:
It really is. I remember being happy as hell to win the wild card and get our butts kicked in the first round by the Braves. I also remember just being happy to beat the Cards in the regular season.
My dad gave me a picture of Biggio with that quote, and it's hanging up in my office.
It was a great moment and many of us no doubt had tears in our eyes when he said that. We've come a long way as an organization. I do wish we could have won one with him and Bagwell.AgSportsFan89 said:JDUB08AG said:I remember in 2005, they interviewed Biggio after we won the NLCS and he was all smiles saying "I just wanted to go once." While we were all ecstatic with that series, this was definitely the mentality and mindset of that 8-10 year run of seasons. Great teams, but we never had that killer/confident swagger. Not only do we have that now, we are hated. Its glorious!ttha_aggie_09 said:
It really is. I remember being happy as hell to win the wild card and get our butts kicked in the first round by the Braves. I also remember just being happy to beat the Cards in the regular season.
My dad gave me a picture of Biggio with that quote, and it's hanging up in my office.
Let's not all get distracted from the fact that this is all the fault of a manager who is petty enough to pick and choose favorites and deny playing time to the rest and makes decisions in brazen defiance of numbers and reason.
Oh and who famously said he doesn't want people "clogging up the bases."
Who gave Cesar Salazar multiple starts rather than just play Diaz and somehow that's only his second most egregious and indefensible intentional mistake this year when you look at Julks playing time vs Chas.
Oh and who famously said he doesn't want people "clogging up the bases."
Who gave Cesar Salazar multiple starts rather than just play Diaz and somehow that's only his second most egregious and indefensible intentional mistake this year when you look at Julks playing time vs Chas.
Ag_07 said:
The Astros broke the Yankees.
Beau Holder said:Ag_07 said:
The Astros broke the Yankees.
AgLA06 said:
It's an interesting comparison between King Tuck and Ohtani.
My gut is if you switched them Ohtani would have even better stats and Tuck a little worse. Yet Ohtani has other things going for him that will make him much more valuable (and a higher risk) than Tuck. The fan following and his ability to be an all-star pitcher in addition to a top 3 hitter in the league is something a right fielder (for now) just can't match.
I don't blame Tuck for trying to maximize earnings, but Ohtani isn't a good comp. Mookie Betts isn't really either. So I'm not really sure what salary comp is realistic for him.
For sure Ohtani isn't a good comp. However, I do think whatever Ohtani gets and however they present the hitter side of the contract, I am anticipating a $5M per year market increase minimum for top hitters.
I was worried about all of our young guys going to Yankee Stadium in 2015 for the WC game. Would not have been surprised if the moment had been too big since so many of them had been playing for the Hooks 3 years previously. The Astros have absolutely owned the Yankees since that playoff game in 2015.Ag_07 said:
I was listening to some national sports talk show late last night on my drive home and they were saying they expect the Yanks to completely blow it up.
New manager, new GM, offloading bad contracts so roster overhaul, etc. They expect the entire organization to look completely different.
Ironic thing is that dating back to 2017 the Yankees have won 91, 100, 103, 33 (COVID), 92, and 99 games but have nothing to show for it.
All that to say this...The Astros broke the Yankees.
texasaggie2015 said:
It really makes you appreciate this recent run. It's so damn hard to win a championship. It's even harder to win two in a short window. I try my best not to take this team for granted.
This is the key, regardless of general frustrations, bad losses, playing time debates, poor managerial decisions, questionable signings, Bagwell philosophies, Crane tinkering. We are in the golden age of Astros baseball! We've been to 4 World Series over the last 6 years and won 2. We've been the dominant team in all of baseball.
As someone who started following Astros baseball in 1971, trust me, you don't want to ignore or diminish the incredible success we've had by constantly getting pissed at some of the day to day decision making. The debate can be fun but the vitriol is unworthy of such a glorious run we've all enjoyed.
Astors broke them, but Atlanta just buried them. They are finished.
Betts is making $20 mil this year, $25 mil the next 4 years, and then $30 starting in '29.Quote:
I don't blame Tuck for trying to maximize earnings, but Ohtani isn't a good comp. Mookie Betts isn't really either. So I'm not really sure what salary comp is realistic for him.
Acuna Jr, who probably wins the MVP in the NL this year, is making $17 mil this year and the next 3 years before club options kick in. What a f-cking steal
Tatis Jr starts making $20 mil in '25 and goes up to $25 in '27. He's making $7 mil this year, compared to Tucker's $5.
Tucker is probably between Tatis and Acuna/Betts, so you smart people figure out what that price point is
If we were paying Javier this season his post-arb salary we could almost match the Ohtani number with our signings this past off-season and season.EastCoastAgNc said:
$65.8M AAV. Good luck to whoever wrecks their payroll to do that. That contract will age so poorly towards the end.
Javier - $21 million
Abreu - $20 million
Montero - $11.5 million
Brantley - $12 million
Total - $64.5 million
Good luck to whatever fools wreck their payroll with Ohtani.
Of course it will be to a team for which the luxury tax is not a salary cap, so whatever they spend on Ohtani is already funny money compared to 2/3 of the teams in the league (including us). redline248 said:Betts is making $20 mil this year, $25 mil the next 4 years, and then $30 starting in '29.Quote:
I don't blame Tuck for trying to maximize earnings, but Ohtani isn't a good comp. Mookie Betts isn't really either. So I'm not really sure what salary comp is realistic for him.
Acuna Jr, who probably wins the MVP in the NL this year, is making $17 mil this year and the next 3 years before club options kick in. What a f-cking steal
Tatis Jr starts making $20 mil in '25 and goes up to $25 in '27. He's making $7 mil this year, compared to Tucker's $5.
Tucker is probably between Tatis and Acuna/Betts, so you smart people figure out what that price point is
Keep in mind when those contracts were signed.
Acuna got his at 21 when the Braves still had 6 years of control. Acuna wasn't yet fully Acuna. And it's probably one of the most team friendly deals ever.
Mookie got a 12 year deal at 28. He got a mega signing bonus. On average he's getting just over 30 M a year until he's 40.
Tatis is similar to Acuna. They bought out 5 years of control. He's making, on average, 24+ M a year from age 22 to 35. His extension money is more like 9/286.
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