***** 2023 Houston Astros Season Thread *****

7,076,970 Views | 114825 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by texasaggie2015
Mr.Bond
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In reply to Beat40 • 12:20p, 8/11/23
AG
Beat40 said:
EastCoastAgNc said:
JDUB08AG said:
How tf did dubon become his personal CF?
What JV asks for, JV gets.
JV didn't ask for Dubon in CF. Dusty said last year Dubon was the best option in CF while JV pitched. It was 100% a Dusty decision, so let's not get this rumor started.

The Maldy situation is much different.



Just further solidifies what an absolute d****** Dusty Baker is thanks for the information
Im looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. Im just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland, sir.


MAGA

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Mathguy64
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In reply to Mr.Bond • 12:21p, 8/11/23
AG
Mr.Bond said:
Beat40 said:
Mr.Bond said:
I love JV but he isn't a manager. Him dictating a lineup is ludicrous
He didn't state he wanted Dubon in CF. That was a 100% Dusty decision.




Where did Dusty say Dubon has to play CF for JV? I legit missed that


He said it last year. He thinks Dubon can cut down on triples because he has a better arm than Chas or Jake.
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AggieDub04
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In reply to Beat40 • 12:22p, 8/11/23
AG
Beat40 said:
Mr.Bond said:
I love JV but he isn't a manager. Him dictating a lineup is ludicrous
He didn't state he wanted Dubon in CF. That was a 100% Dusty decision.
It wasn't wrong last year. Verlander gives up a lot of fly balls and with Meyers struggles it was Dubon or Chas. They're pretty similar in terms of sprint speed and Dubon had a better arm last year per baseball savant. This year is a different story where Meyers (while flawed) looks to be past his struggles and is elite defensively. Meyers actually has a better OPS than Dubon this year and has been better over the past month so it would be worth playing him in center.
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Farmer1906
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In reply to Mr.Bond • 12:25p, 8/11/23
AG
Mr.Bond said:
Beat40 said:
Mr.Bond said:
I love JV but he isn't a manager. Him dictating a lineup is ludicrous
He didn't state he wanted Dubon in CF. That was a 100% Dusty decision.




Where did Dusty say Dubon has to play CF for JV? I legit missed that
Last year Dusty said it because of Dubon's arm. Something about keeping guys going first to third.

Just look at the JV starts and who has played CF.
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Farmer1906
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In reply to AggieDub04 • 12:27p, 8/11/23
AG
AggieDub04 said:
Beat40 said:
Mr.Bond said:
I love JV but he isn't a manager. Him dictating a lineup is ludicrous
He didn't state he wanted Dubon in CF. That was a 100% Dusty decision.
It wasn't wrong last year. Verlander gives up a lot of fly balls and with Meyers struggles it was Dubon or Chas. They're pretty similar in terms of sprint speed and Dubon had a better arm last year per baseball savant. This year is a different story where Meyers (while flawed) looks to be past his struggles and is elite defensively. Meyers actually has a better OPS than Dubon this year and has been better over the past month so it would be worth playing him in center.
Jake and Dubon were similar on offense last year and this year. Jake is better defensively outside of arm strength. Its not close.

Chas doesn't have a great arm either, but he's still better defensively than Dubon and has been superior offensively both this year and last year.

Arm strength is the only edge Dubon has in either argument. Its a silly one.
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Lonestar_Ag09
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In reply to AggieDub04 • 12:32p, 8/11/23
AG
Dusty Probably: yea, well did you see Dubon throw out Stanton at home last week…did ya?
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Ag_07
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12:51p, 8/11/23
AG
It has to do with Dusty expecting JV starts to be close low scoring games so he wants Dubon out there to cut down runners.

My rebuttal is...Maybe they wouldn't be close low scoring games if you played the best 9 players.
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txags92
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In reply to Ag_07 • 12:53p, 8/11/23
AG
Ag_07 said:
It has to do with Dusty expecting JV starts to be close low scoring games so he wants Dubon out there to cut down runners.

My rebuttal is...Maybe they wouldn't be close low scoring games if you played the best 9 players.
That's just fan stuff.
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YellAg2004
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1:04p, 8/11/23
AG
Shortly after Dusty said that crap last year I just remember a runner going 1st to 3rd on a soft line drive to left center that didn't find the gap. The guy ran right in Dubon's face and Dubon couldn't throw him out.
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Beau Holder
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In reply to YellAg2004 • 1:06p, 8/11/23
AG
Surely you're not implying Dusty confidently asserted something that facts and reality immediately failed to support? Has that ever happened before?
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AgLA06
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In reply to Beat40 • 1:11p, 8/11/23
AG
Beat40 said:
AgLA06 said:
BadAggie said:
Remaining series (15 games) where baseline expectation is sweep:

LAA 8/11-8/13
@DET 8/25-8/27
OAK 9/11-9/13
@KC 9/15-9/17
KC 9/22-9/24

But it's baseball so there will likely be at least a couple losses. Need to feast on these series in part to win the division.

Expecting sweeps in those 5 series is setting oneself up for disappointment. Win the series you're supposed to win and a sweep is a bonus. Push to steel a series elsewhere.

This is where people start to realize that our manager is the reason we have to start talking about sweeping 5 series in the last 1.5 months to win a division when we were the favorite. He can make up whatever excuses he wants about mismanaging the lineup, but it's put us in this situation. The last week should have made that clear to everyone.
The last week makes it also clear what this team is without Yordan and Altuve. That has made more of an impact than Dusty.
Partly. That's any team losing multiple high end starters.

Now look at how the offensive has looked when Yordan is batting fifth and Altuve has a sure out behind him with Pena instead of how it was the games we scored well above average this week with Bregman batting 2 and Yordan batting 3 or 4.

Doesn't matter if they are in the lineup if it's set up to fail (4.9 runs a game). The better lineup against the Oriels led to the team averaging 6.7 runs against one of the best pitching staffs.
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bearkatag15
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1:35p, 8/11/23
AG


The demise of Jose Altuve is a long way away
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Farmer1906
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1:36p, 8/11/23
AG
Jose Altuve stats for the day.

Since 2011 (active players only)

fWAR
1. Freeman - 56.7
2. Goldschmidt - 56.7
3. Betts - 55.5
4. Altuve - 51.0
5. Machado - 48.6
6. Arenado - 48.6
7. Lindor - 46.3
8. Harper - 45.2
9. McCutchen - 45.2
10. Ramirez - 43.7

Hits
1. Freeman - 2056
2. Altuve - 1988
3. Goldschmidt - 1871
4. Andrus - 1770
5. Cabrera - 1745
5. McCutchen - 1745
7. Machado - 1694
8. LeMahieu - 1659
9. Arenado - 1641
10. Votto - 1612

wRC+ (min 5000 PA)
1. Votto - 144
2. Goldschidt - 143
3. Freeman - 143
4. Harper - 140
5. Stanton - 139
6. Betts - 138
7. Cabrera - 137
8. Martinez - 131
9. McCutchen - 130
10. Altuve - 129

Now if we filter for 2B only.

fWAR
1. Altuve - 51.0
2. Semien - 30.5
3. LeMachieu - 26.7
4. Baez - 24.5
5. Merrifield - 20.8

Hits
1. Altuve - 1988
2. Lemahieu - 1659
3. Semien - 1298
4. Merrifield - 1155
5. Baez - 1028

wRC+ (no min, but qualified)
1. Altuve - 129 (7152 PA)
2. Lowe - 127 (1882)
3. Arraez - 125 (2036)
4. McNeil - 124 (2502)
5. Torres - 114 (2818)
6. Marte - 113 (3772)
7. Semien - 110 (5603)
8. Gimenez - 110 (1344)
9. Poloanco - 110 (3366)
10. Crownenworth - 109 (1986)

Keeping 2B filtered, but looking at single seasons (2011-2023, minus 2020 for non-counting stats)

fWAR
1. 2017 Altuve - 7.5
2. 2013 Carpenter - 7.2
3. 2021 Turner - 6.8 (40+ starts at 2B)
4. 2016 Altuve - 6.7
5. 2017 Ramirez - 6.7
6. 2022 Altuve - 6.6
7. 2021 Semien - 6.2
8. 2019 Marte - 6.2
9. 2018 Baez - 6.1
10. 2022 Gimenez - 6.1
--
12. 2018 Altuve - 5.8
--
15. 2021 Altuve - 5.8
--
17. 2014 Altuve - 5.2

wRC+
1. 2022 Altuve - 164
2. 2017 Altuve - 160
3. 2023 Betts - 157 (in progress)
4. 2016 Altuve - 152
5. 2019 Marte - 150
6. 2017 Ramirez - 146
7. 2013 Carpenter - 146
8. 2022 McNeil - 143
9. 2021 Turner - 142
10. 2013 Arraez - 141 (in progress)
--
12. 2019 Altuve - 137
--
14. 2014 Altuve - 137
--
17. 2018 Altuve - 135

If this doesn't scream HOF then I don't know what does. It's not even factoring in postseason success. A lot of the single-season competition are guys who aren't true second baseman but happened to play second some in a single season (Trea Turner, Mookie Betts, Jose Ramirez)
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Farmer1906
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In reply to bearkatag15 • 1:36p, 8/11/23
AG
This is the tweet that got me looking into Altuve #s today.
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Faustus
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In reply to Mathguy64 • 1:37p, 8/11/23
Mathguy64 said:
Mr.Bond said:
Beat40 said:
Mr.Bond said:
I love JV but he isn't a manager. Him dictating a lineup is ludicrous
He didn't state he wanted Dubon in CF. That was a 100% Dusty decision.




Where did Dusty say Dubon has to play CF for JV? I legit missed that


He said it last year. He thinks Dubon can cut down on triples because he has a better arm than Chas or Jake.


Am I crazy or didn't Dubon log an outfield assist in JV's start for the Astros against the Yankees? I'd say have Chas in left that would be fine if Yordan didn't hit so much better while playing in the OF.

If you have to have Maldy catching though it makes it tough to get Chas and Diaz playing unless you have Chas in CF, Yordan in left, and Diaz DH'ing. Then again Diaz hits much better playing catcher.

Frankly JV should be calling his own game, Diaz catching, Chas center, and Yordan LF if we're going by trying to score the most runs.
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texasaggie2015
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In reply to Faustus • 1:38p, 8/11/23
AG
He threw out Stanton but I think Dusty himself could have thrown him out in that instance
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Mathguy64
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In reply to Faustus • 1:42p, 8/11/23
AG
Faustus said:
Mathguy64 said:
Mr.Bond said:
Beat40 said:
Mr.Bond said:
I love JV but he isn't a manager. Him dictating a lineup is ludicrous
He didn't state he wanted Dubon in CF. That was a 100% Dusty decision.




Where did Dusty say Dubon has to play CF for JV? I legit missed that


He said it last year. He thinks Dubon can cut down on triples because he has a better arm than Chas or Jake.


Am I crazy or didn't Dubon log an outfield assist in JV's start for the Astros against the Yankees? I'd say have Chas in left that would be fine if Yordan didn't hit so much better while playing in the OF.

If you have to have Maldy catching though it makes it tough to get Chas and Diaz playing unless you have Chas in CF, Yordan in left, and Diaz DH'ing. Then again Diaz hits much better playing catcher.

Frankly JV should be calling his own game, Diaz catching, Chas center, and Yordan LF if we're going by trying to score the most runs.


He threw out Stanton. It's not hyperbole to suggest I could have thrown out Stanton.
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Faustus
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 1:45p, 8/11/23
Farmer1906 said:
This is the tweet that got me looking into Altuve #s today.
Referring to bearkatag15's post presumably?
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Farmer1906
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1:50p, 8/11/23
AG
Let's put arm strength in perspective here.

Baseball Savant tracks field runs value and splits range vs arm. Here is how the 3 players compare.

Player / Range Run Valaue / Arm Run Value / Total Fielding Run Value (Innings)
McCormick / 0 / 20 / 20 (2209)
Dubon / 1 / 13 / 14 (2438)
Meyers / -2 / 18 / 17 (1416)

A few things to note:
  • Dubon's #s include INF play. For his career, he's +16 OAA. 5 of the 16 came in the OF. Zero while playing for Houston.
  • Meyers doesn't add up correctly due to rounding

I think it's very easy to say, Chas is been the most valuable outfielder on defense. Jake has been the most valuable per inning and would be #1 if he played as many as the others. Arm strength matters very little when compared to range.
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Faustus
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In reply to Mathguy64 • 1:51p, 8/11/23
Mathguy64 said:
Faustus said:
Mathguy64 said:
Mr.Bond said:
Beat40 said:
Mr.Bond said:
I love JV but he isn't a manager. Him dictating a lineup is ludicrous
He didn't state he wanted Dubon in CF. That was a 100% Dusty decision.




Where did Dusty say Dubon has to play CF for JV? I legit missed that


He said it last year. He thinks Dubon can cut down on triples because he has a better arm than Chas or Jake.


Am I crazy or didn't Dubon log an outfield assist in JV's start for the Astros against the Yankees? I'd say have Chas in left that would be fine if Yordan didn't hit so much better while playing in the OF.

If you have to have Maldy catching though it makes it tough to get Chas and Diaz playing unless you have Chas in CF, Yordan in left, and Diaz DH'ing. Then again Diaz hits much better playing catcher.

Frankly JV should be calling his own game, Diaz catching, Chas center, and Yordan LF if we're going by trying to score the most runs.


He threw out Stanton. It's not hyperbole to suggest I could have thrown out Stanton.
True, but nevertheless funny given the scorn heaped on playing Dubon there. I don't think it's guaranteed Meyers makes the throw, and I like Meyers as a CF. Plays way better than most give him credit for since he makes a lot of the catches look easy.

Looking at Siri, somehow he has a negative dWAR (on bWAR chuckle) this year notwithstanding his speed. I would have never pegged him and Tucker as being liabilities in the OF this season.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sirijo01.shtml
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Proudag06
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In reply to bearkatag15 • 1:51p, 8/11/23
AG
bearkatag15 said:


The demise of Jose Altuve is a long way away


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Farmer1906
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In reply to Faustus • 1:52p, 8/11/23
AG
Faustus said:
Farmer1906 said:
This is the tweet that got me looking into Altuve #s today.
Referring to bearkatag15's post presumably?
Yes. You can see if someone is specifically replying to another post.You can even click it and it'll take you to the post. Just an FYI in case you didn't know.

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Faustus
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1:54p, 8/11/23
Upon retrospect that's correct, but usually when you see "this" instead of "that" you expect it in the body of the post. [/black sheep]
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bearkatag15
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1:57p, 8/11/23
AG


Dan Clark hates the Astros more than Satan himself... so for him to admit this is a lot
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Prosperdick
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In reply to bearkatag15 • 2:14p, 8/11/23
AG
bearkatag15 said:


Dan Clark hates the Astros more than Satan himself... so for him to admit this is a lot
And they didn't even have to face JV.
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EastCoastAgNc
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2:23p, 8/11/23
AG

Blink twice if you're being held hostage. Guarantee he was forced to put something like this out
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redline248
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In reply to EastCoastAgNc • 2:39p, 8/11/23
AG
I'm not sure I 100% buy the story that he was suspended for those comments about playing the Rays. If that was me, and I got suspended over that I would have quit. I can't help but wonder if there is something else we don't know. Maybe the O's did him a favor by letting that story go?
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Mathguy64
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In reply to redline248 • 2:42p, 8/11/23
AG
Given the way all the other broadcast teams have openly gone at the Orioles the last week I would think they would have known if there was something else.
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texasaggie2015
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In reply to redline248 • 2:44p, 8/11/23
AG
redline248 said:
I'm not sure I 100% buy the story that he was suspended for those comments about playing the Rays. If that was me, and I got suspended over that I would have quit. I can't help but wonder if there is something else we don't know. Maybe the O's did him a favor by letting that story go?
Yeah, I think this is likely.
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redline248
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In reply to Mathguy64 • 2:44p, 8/11/23
AG
Mathguy64 said:
Given the way all the other broadcast teams have openly gone at the Orioles the last week I would think they would have known if there was something else.
Why would they have known? Someone "leaks" the story to awful announcing, and everyone just took it as gospel?

edit: Obviously,the O's didn't address it (not that I've seen). So either it's true or they just don't care to correct it
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Mathguy64
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In reply to redline248 • 2:47p, 8/11/23
AG
redline248 said:
Mathguy64 said:
Given the way all the other broadcast teams have openly gone at the Orioles the last week I would think they would have known if there was something else.
Why would they have known? Someone "leaks" the story to awful announcing, and everyone just took it as gospel?


While it's certainly possible that's the case, if that's true and it came out later there will lots of very unhappy broadcast teams who will be angry for being duped and that guy will be a dead man walking.
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redline248
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2:50p, 8/11/23
AG
The only thing I can find is one "fact check" sports website that says
Quote:
Sports media figure Roy Firestone confirmed the suspicions that Angelos was behind the decision.

No link, no clip, nothing but that sentence. I guess if Roy Firestone says so (whoever he is)...
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EastCoastAgNc
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2:59p, 8/11/23
AG
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txags92
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In reply to Faustus • 2:59p, 8/11/23
AG
Faustus said:
Mathguy64 said:
Mr.Bond said:
Beat40 said:
Mr.Bond said:
I love JV but he isn't a manager. Him dictating a lineup is ludicrous
He didn't state he wanted Dubon in CF. That was a 100% Dusty decision.




Where did Dusty say Dubon has to play CF for JV? I legit missed that


He said it last year. He thinks Dubon can cut down on triples because he has a better arm than Chas or Jake.


Frankly JV should be calling his own game,
If you watched that interview of him on Apple TV, they asked him how he had adapted to the pitch clock. He said he would step on the rubber with the pitch he wanted to throw already in his grip in his glove, and would just keep shaking the catcher off until they called the pitch he wanted to throw. So he is already calling his own game. I suspect there is just a comfort level with Maldy that makes him have to do less shaking off since Maldy mostly knows what he wants to throw.
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redline248
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2:59p, 8/11/23
AG
Altuve
Bregman
Alvarez LF
Tucker
Diaz DH
Dubon CF
Singleton
Pena
Maldy
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