***Official Houston Astros 2022-23 Offseason Thread***

1,073,092 Views | 12340 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Beat40
Harry Dunne
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12law said:

Harry Dunne said:

I agree 100%

We've got some weird undeserving retired numbers that did far less for the organization than JV, so I'm not mad at anyone that wants 35 retired…

He will always be an H-town hero for his contributions, but the dude basically played three seasons for us and I don't think anyone that plays three seasons for a franchise should have their number retired.

Two world series and two Cy Youngs in threw years? What Houston pitcher has accomplished more?
No one is questioning his accomplishments. You're still missing the point.

Has there ever been a pitcher with 100 appearances to have their number retired for a team?
JDUB08AG
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AG
If JV is in the mix for getting his jersey retired, then Yuli is equally deserving and perhaps even more so. Yuli has been a steady force since 2017 and played pretty much every day.

My point in bringing that up is many people wouldn't have considered him bc he doesn't have the pedigree as JV. Getting your jersey retired is a big deal and while I love what JV did for this city and franchise, you had a handful of other guys that were part of that too.
AggiEE
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W said:

Correa will have October off if he signs with the Cubs.

they are rebuilding


Call him mister October. He spends his Octobers in the Dior store and buys want he wants, in between providing color commentary on national TV about how dominant the Astros are in the playoffs
Faustus
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Cubs would be perfect. I can be happy for his success without it coming at our expense. Hope it happens.
Prosperdick
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AG
Another point about JV is he won't get to feast on the AL West bottom-feeders and although the Marlins and Nats aren't great the Phillies and Braves are both stacked.

He also likely is facing better teams in the NL as a lot of talent has gravitated to that league (we'll see if the trend continues this winter).

I wonder how that forgiving NY press will treat him if he gets lit up early in a few games. I also wonder how how he will look at the end of the season in a 5 man rotation rather than 6?
scd88
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AG
He also won't have Maldonado as his catcher, but I may be overestimating the impact Maldy had on JV.
PrestigeWorldwideAg12
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He will likely use Mccann
Farmer1906
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AG
JDUB08AG said:

If JV is in the mix for getting his jersey retired, then Yuli is equally deserving and perhaps even more so. Yuli has been a steady force since 2017 and played pretty much every day.

My point in bringing that up is many people wouldn't have considered him bc he doesn't have the pedigree as JV. Getting your jersey retired is a big deal and while I love what JV did for this city and franchise, you had a handful of other guys that were part of that too.


I'm not sure what point is being made here. Since a lot of people contributed no one should be retired? Why bring Yuli into it? You get retired for greatness, not being steady.
Harry Dunne
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Is it not both greatness and longevity?

If not, where do you draw the line? Roger Clemens won a CYA and was robbed of another in 3 seasons. Not quite JV, but still greatness. What about him?
Farmer1906
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AG
Harry Dunne said:

Is it not both greatness and longevity?

If not, where do you draw the line? Roger Clemens won a CYA and was robbed of another in 3 seasons. Not quite JV, but still greatness. What about him?
True. We can argue about JV due to the longevity.

Harry Dunne
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scd88 said:

He also won't have Maldonado as his catcher, but I may be overestimating the impact Maldy had on JV.
I think everyone is overestimating it. Its not like these other guys are Evan Gattis. McCann is a very good defensive catcher and they have history.
Harry Dunne
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Yep & for the record I would be happy to see JVs jersey in the rafters. It would be a Clyde Drexler situation.

But if we retire JV I think we also have to retire Correa, right?

Springer?
Farmer1906
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AG
Harry Dunne said:

Yep & for the record I would be happy to see JVs jersey in the rafters. It would be a Clyde Drexler situation.

But if we retire JV I think we also have to retire Correa, right?

Springer?
Let's start with Berkman. Odo and Hensley have already been wearing it.
Bonnettecj1
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I say retire the practice of retiring numbers.
Mr.Bond
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AG
Just create a ring of honor
Im looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. Im just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland, sir.


MAGA

Farmer1906
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AG
We have a Hall of Fame.
JDUB08AG
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AG
Farmer1906 said:

JDUB08AG said:

If JV is in the mix for getting his jersey retired, then Yuli is equally deserving and perhaps even more so. Yuli has been a steady force since 2017 and played pretty much every day.

My point in bringing that up is many people wouldn't have considered him bc he doesn't have the pedigree as JV. Getting your jersey retired is a big deal and while I love what JV did for this city and franchise, you had a handful of other guys that were part of that too.


I'm not sure what point is being made here. Since a lot of people contributed no one should be retired? Why bring Yuli into it? You get retired for greatness, not being steady.
Ultimately my point comes down to longevity. JV was great here, but if we hadn't won a WS, this wouldn't even be a discussion because he was only here 5 years. If we are going to let the WS win factor into a jersey retirement, you have to also look at more folks on that 2017 squad.
Deluxe
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AG
Harry Dunne said:

scd88 said:

He also won't have Maldonado as his catcher, but I may be overestimating the impact Maldy had on JV.
I think everyone is overestimating it. Its not like these other guys are Evan Gattis. McCann is a very good defensive catcher and they have history.
Not many people on this thread overstate it.

To the larger point, it will be interesting to see how JV does in NY. CFM didn't downtick much after he left Houston, granted he's been with two organizations that are among the best in class in terms of pitching braintrust (Rays and Braves). Cole downticked but 1) what he did in 2019 was unsustainable and 2) the sticky stuff crackdown effected him more than most.

I do think the Astros have the best pitching braintrust in baseball. Maldy is part of that mix, but it's also nerds game planning, bench coaches observing, etc. Hard to quantify exactly how many runs that saves relative to the baseline team. Maybe something like 1 run every couple games.

Based on last year, the Mets are above average in that regard. While Cohen's spending on a few high profile players gets the headlines, I suspect he brought in some high quality nerd behind the scenes. You don't go from winning 77 games to 101 games without some big improvements in day-to-day approach.

Like a previous poster pointed out, the NL East will be a tougher road to hoe than the AL West. That's probably worth half a point of ERA. I don't think the 5 vs 6 man rotation/rest will effect his regular season numbers much. That will rear its ugly head in October. Our defense is also better than theirs and we tend to structure our lineup when he pitches around the defense behind him.

In 2022, he pitched 175 innings and went 18-4 with 1.75 ERA. In 2023, my guess is he pitches 190 innings and goes 16-9 with a 2.90 ERA. Still good but not CY level elite.
n_touch
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Mr.Bond said:

Just create a ring of honor
Worked out well for the Texans
AustinCountyAg
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JV and Yuli both do not deserve to have the # retired.....only person who comes to mind that is deserving of it that it hasn't happen yet is MAYBE Berkman
Deluxe
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AG
I need more rumors. Too many Twitter and Astros thread refreshes this morning with nothing to show.
EastCoastAgNc
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AG
W
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AG
speaking of retired numbers...

both Mike Scott's and Jose Cruz's numbers were retired in October 1992 on the same day.

this was before Drayton took over the team. I originally thought it was Drayton who did all the jersey retirements.

there has to be a story as to why those number retirements were done / rushed before new ownership took over in 1993
Panama Red
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AG
Who says it was "rushed"?

I imagine McMullen wanted to be a part of it since he was owner for those players' Astros accomplishments. Does not seem to be much of a "story."
W
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AG
Mike Scott's final season with the Astros was 1991.

retiring the jersey just one year later seems rushed.

Cruz's final season with Houston was 1987
EastCoastAgNc
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AG
Deluxe
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AG
I wonder what cheating schemes a 55 year old JV will bring back to the Astros in 2035.
Farmer1906
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AG
linkdude
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AG
Lol
Deluxe
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AG
$20 mil for Bellinger? He's as bad at negotiating as he is at hitting without cheating.
EastCoastAgNc
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LOL...$20M for a guy who couldn't hit above the Mendoza line...what a diva
Farmer1906
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AG
If the Dodgers wouldn't pay him 19.5, why would anyone else?
3B Paul 97
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I'd give $20 and a Jeff Bagwell Mothers Cookies autographed card.
Farmer1906
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AG




100% would have picked the Padres over the Phillies at equal money. But and extra 50-60 M? Hell yes.
Mathguy64
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AG
Where are they playing him? He's not replacing Vlad Jr at 1B. He's not replacing George in CF. They traded for Merrifield in RF. They have Lourdes in LF.
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