***Official Houston Astros 2022-23 Offseason Thread***

1,087,645 Views | 12340 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Beat40
Nino Brown
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Just because I grew up in the Dome, ate dinner with the Express as a kid, watched Astros baseball for over 35 years and have coached doesn't means I know everything.

Having said that, under our current circumstances, I'm not giving up any draft picks for anyone on the wrong side of 30. Just doesn't make to much sense to me.
AustinCountyAg
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Nino Brown said:

Just because I grew up in the Dome, ate dinner with the Express as a kid, watched Astros baseball for over 35 years and have coached means I know everything.

Having said that, under our current circumstances, I'm not giving up any draft picks for anyone on the wrong side of 30. Just doesn't make to much sense to me.
I agree. Their are only a handful of big leaguers I'd do it for. Rizzo sure as hell aint one of them.
kegstand
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spadilly said:

"Now, those inside the Astros are asking questions that World Series-winning teams rarely must ask. Is the team that reached six American League Championship Series, four World Series and won a pair of championships in the last half-dozen seasons really considering pivoting from the analytics-heavy approach that built the team into a monster?"
Passan is a tool but this is a valid point of concern for me personally. I get the sense that Crane kind of has a money burning a hole in his pocket feel right now, what with the rumors of Houston courting Rizzo and Contreras. I've seen multiple comments from fans and media alike that now is the time for Crane to spend and make the splash acquisitions Click denied him and bust the luxury cap, etc. The Astros have won two World Series prioritizing value and home-grown talent. Signing the big time FAs at each position is absolutely no guarantee of increased success. Look at the Dodgers and the Yankees (or the Phillies for that matter.)

Maybe I've just got BAS bleeding over from other, more painful, sports fandoms in my life, but I do think there is a chance that the Astros make a radical philosophy swing here that we won't particularly enjoy. I hope I am wrong.
FrioAg 00
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AG
Even so it would take it a few years to show IMO.

I sort of feel like Crane has decided he has a 3-4 year window open to keep winning big, and he's willing to spend some money to maximize the chance at it.

Analytics and the system to identify value got us here, but that isn't necessarily what's going to be the difference I've the next few years.
BMX Bandit
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thats how its seems to me also. he knows the window will close soon. win another one before that happens appears to be his goal.
Nino Brown
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kegstand said:

spadilly said:

"Now, those inside the Astros are asking questions that World Series-winning teams rarely must ask. Is the team that reached six American League Championship Series, four World Series and won a pair of championships in the last half-dozen seasons really considering pivoting from the analytics-heavy approach that built the team into a monster?"
Passan is a tool but this is a valid point of concern for me personally. I get the sense that Crane kind of has a money burning a hole in his pocket feel right now, what with the rumors of Houston courting Rizzo and Contreras. I've seen multiple comments from fans and media alike that now is the time for Crane to spend and make the splash acquisitions Click denied him and bust the luxury cap, etc. The Astros have won two World Series prioritizing value and home-grown talent. Signing the big time FAs at each position is absolutely no guarantee of increased success. Look at the Dodgers and the Yankees (or the Phillies for that matter.)

Maybe I've just got BAS bleeding over from other, more painful, sports fandoms in my life, but I do think there is a chance that the Astros make a radical philosophy swing here that we won't particularly enjoy. I hope I am wrong.
Once again, we got tools like Passan writing hit pieces about an owner running his business how he wants to. Passan is only trying to capitalize on any and all left over ill will towards the Astros from MLB fans as whole.

This doesn't make you a journalist, it makes you a used cars salesperson scumbag leach. And even a common MLB fan that is still whining about the Stros success should be able to see through that. Crane has every rite to take the Steinbrenner approach. Not many of us work under contracts and can be let go at anytime by our employer. A man that Crane didn't see as the long term solution to run his business was offered a one year deal and declined it, end of story.
Farmer1906
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AG
The window closes if you let it close. We still have the entire pitching staff under team control for 3 more years minus JV. You have guys like McCullers, Garcia, & Brown for even longer. Offensively, you do have to make some decisions about Bregman and Altuve in 2 years and then Tucker in 3, but you do have Alvarez, Pena, and McCormick, longer. Then you factor in ~70 M coming off the books after 2024 you're going to be able to keep some players.
Wabs
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It's definitely a balance of winning as much as we can during this window while not compromising the future (2026 and beyond). Like most on here I would choose to win now, which means getting a bat like Rizzo or Abreu and re-signing JV to a 2-3 year deal.
FrioAg 00
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AG
With some of the core getting older and a lot of contract for the young guys coming up in 2-3 years, I guess I can see it.

And a whole lot of those guys are going to get raises when their times come up.

I don't hate a strategy of 1-2 big deals to add to the bats, then ride this team out while the window is open.

We are 3 ALCS appearances away from holding the record for consecutive league championship appearances. Pair that with at least one more WS ring, and this Astros dynasty gets permanently listed as on of the best 5 dynasties ever.

Farmer1906
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kegstand said:

spadilly said:

"Now, those inside the Astros are asking questions that World Series-winning teams rarely must ask. Is the team that reached six American League Championship Series, four World Series and won a pair of championships in the last half-dozen seasons really considering pivoting from the analytics-heavy approach that built the team into a monster?"
Passan is a tool but this is a valid point of concern for me personally. I get the sense that Crane kind of has a money burning a hole in his pocket feel right now, what with the rumors of Houston courting Rizzo and Contreras. I've seen multiple comments from fans and media alike that now is the time for Crane to spend and make the splash acquisitions Click denied him and bust the luxury cap, etc. The Astros have won two World Series prioritizing value and home-grown talent. Signing the big time FAs at each position is absolutely no guarantee of increased success. Look at the Dodgers and the Yankees (or the Phillies for that matter.)

Maybe I've just got BAS bleeding over from other, more painful, sports fandoms in my life, but I do think there is a chance that the Astros make a radical philosophy swing here that we won't particularly enjoy. I hope I am wrong.
I agree. I think we're teetering on the edge of a knife blade. Crane could hire someone smart like Sig and let him rebuild the systems we have to stay at the front of the line or you keep hiring "baseball people" and run the team like Jerry Jones.

I also agree homegrown talent is the way to go, but you have to supplement at times and make other moves. Early on in the run, we have pitching deficiencies so we signed a broken Morton, traded for an aging JV, and traded for an overrated Cole. Now pitching looks great so it's not the end of the world to sign a few offensive FAs after you have Springer, Correa, and Yuli either move on or kind of age out.
Ryan34
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Crane has emphasized analytics almost from day one. He hired Luhnow then Click. I don't see us pivoting from that approach, but we may spend more in free agency than in the past as well. It doesn't have to be either/or.
Farmer1906
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I feel like we're all in a negative spot. Winning just feels so good, we're all guy hungry for more.



We're in the good old days. Enjoy this.




D-Y-N-A-S-T-Y

Ag_07
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Yeah I get the sense from this thread that a lot of us are afraid to spend money.

IDGAF how much Crane wants to spend as long as it's on the right players. Avoid the boat anchor contracts on old players where you're paying for past performance and we'll be fine.

While yeah Rizzo seems to be less of a value than Abreu but as long as he isn't signed to some absurd deal that we're gonna regret and trying to dump in a few years then fck it...Spend away.

Diamonds in the rough found in the bargain bin are great but if Crane wants to spend like a big boy go for it.
Ag4life80
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A good friend of my sister-in-law worked for Jim Crane for over 20 years, until her retirement last year. When the Reid Ryan purge went down, she told my SIL that Crane really had no long-term loyalty to anyone. She would not have been surprised if one day he came into her office and simply said "I'm going to make a change and I no longer need your services.' He appears to be one of these guys that seems to think keeping everyone on edge is the way to achieve higher productivity and is his management strategy.
iamtheglove
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BMX Bandit said:

thats how its seems to me also. he knows the window will close soon. win another one before that happens appears to be his goal.
I don't understand why the window has to close. We have lots of under control young talent, including darn near a full staff of starters plus key pieces (Yordan, Peña) locked up for years to come. The beauty of the analytics based system Lunhow and Click ran was that we continued to identify and develop talent at a very high rate vs the industry. That was and still is the secret sauce to keeping the window open. If Crane is moving away from analytics that would be a big head scratcher for me.
Beat40
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Farmer1906 said:

The window closes if you let it close. We still have the entire pitching staff under team control for 3 more years minus JV. You have guys like McCullers, Garcia, & Brown for even longer. Offensively, you do have to make some decisions about Bregman and Altuve in 2 years and then Tucker in 3, but you do have Alvarez, Pena, and McCormick, longer. Then you factor in ~70 M coming off the books after 2024 you're going to be able to keep some players.
Looking from Crane's perspective, it's good to be the Cardinals and Tampa Bay making the post-season so often and being competitive for division titles, but have either of those teams had a legitimate shot at winning a WS in the last 10 years (2020 for the Rays withstanding) outside of getting hot during the post season? I can understand that line of thinking. We know it's a crapshoot once you get to the post-season, but you like to feel good that you don't have to have a full month hot streak to win it all.

I think Crane is trying to balance having enough elite talent to win it when you get in while keeping post-season success sustainable. Obviously, it's easy to tip the scales one way or another and you just hope the scales don't tip to being out of the post-season for 5+years.

It was a philosophy difference between Click and Crane. Lunhow was willing to go make the big splash (JV 2017, very close on Harper 2018, Greinke 2019) to satiate Crane realizing those things allowed him the leeway to make the value moves to keep the winning sustainable. Click never got that if he worked that way with Crane, he'd be ok. He read Crane wrong.

I hope the next GM is more like Lunhow, but without the ethical blurred lines.
kegstand
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I'm not afraid to spend money, and I'm not necessarily averse to FAs. Like Farmer mentioned, we've gotten a ton of success from bringing outside guys in. I just don't want to overpay right now on FAs that are going to threaten our ability to extend the superstars we already have. At the end of it all that's my biggest concern. I don't want overpaying on Rizzo to mean that we don't extend Tucker. I don't want to throw the bank at Contreras if that puts into jeopardy an extension of Framber or Javier.
The Porkchop Express
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Ag4life80 said:

A good friend of my sister-in-law worked for Jim Crane for over 20 years, until her retirement last year. When the Reid Ryan purge went down, she told my SIL that Crane really had no long-term loyalty to anyone. She would not have been surprised if one day he came into her office and simply said "I'm going to make a change and I no longer need your services.' He appears to be one of these guys that seems to think keeping everyone on edge is the way to achieve higher productivity and is his management strategy.
Sounds like Les Alexander's early days with the Rockets. Went through the staff like a hot knife through butter and really jangled a lot of people's nerves. of course, also won back to back titles in his first 2 years as owner.
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Beat40
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Ag_07 said:

Yeah I get the sense from this thread that a lot of us are afraid to spend money.

IDGAF how much Crane wants to spend as long as it's on the right players. Avoid the boat anchor contracts on old players where you're paying for past performance and we'll be fine.

While yeah Rizzo seems to be less of a value than Abreu but as long as he isn't signed to some absurd deal that we're gonna regret and trying to dump in a few years then fck it...Spend away.

Diamonds in the rough found in the bargain bin are great but if Crane wants to spend like a big boy go for it.
I don't think anyone is afraid to spend money. I think people want to spend the right money. There is a difference, which is what your second sentence says.

I think that is what people see couple with remembering what Drayton did. Fired a GM who had us winning a ton in the mid-90s, spent big, made big name acquisitions, and it got us to one WS. Then .500 hell culminating in a rebuild with three 100 loss seasons in a row.

It's not my money, so I don't care how much Crane spends. As a fan, I'd just like to avoid going back to 100 loss seasons as necessary to build a winning franchise again. That, and I don't want to be the Rangers.
Farmer1906
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kegstand said:

I'm not afraid to spend money, and I'm not necessarily averse to FAs. Like Farmer mentioned, we've gotten a ton of success from bringing outside guys in. I just don't want to overpay right now on FAs that are going to threaten our ability to extend the superstars we already have. At the end of it all that's my biggest concern. I don't want overpaying on Rizzo to mean that we don't extend Tucker. I don't want to throw the bank at Contreras if that puts into jeopardy an extension of Framber or Javier.
This. I am all for spending. There is no hard cap. But Crane can't blow his wad and not pay some of our guys when its their turn.
07ag
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spadilly said:

There's a Jeff Passan story on ESPN today, but its paywalled.

Houston Astros' inner turmoil through World Series run (espn.com)

Here's the intro before I'm locked out:
Quote:

In the six days between the Houston Astros winning a World Series and getting rid of their general manager, members of the organization, from players to coaching staff to front office, called one another trying to piece together what was happening.

Over the last year, the disarray in the Astros' front office had exposed itself often enough that employees at all levels wondered how, exactly, an organization so adept on the field could be so chaotic among those tasked with building that on-field unit. They knew about the palace intrigue, had watched the behind-the-scenes machinations that had persisted throughout the season. They had one Hall-of-Fame advisor with a reputation for yelling at people, another frequently questioning the organization's direction. All the while, a general manager was under siege, and the owner who had vowed to take a more hands-on approach because of that crisis watched it all play out.

But suddenly, last week, the information spigot turned off. Rumors swirled about the future of the organization, and no one could get an answer. By Friday, after the news of James Click's eyebrow-raising ouster, one thing was clear: The only person with clarity over what was happening with the Astros -- owner Jim Crane -- was disinclined to tip his hand.

Now, those inside the Astros are asking questions that World Series-winning teams rarely must ask. Is the team that reached six American League Championship Series, four World Series and won a pair of championships in the last half-dozen seasons really considering pivoting from the analytics-heavy approach that built the team into a monster? Without Click, who will shepherd the team forward? And is the answer to that question perhaps the person already at the center of the front-office dysfunction?
"Sometimes I wonder if Jim thinks he's Jerry Jones," said one Astros employee, who was among the dozen people with knowledge of the organization with whom ESPN spoke to better understand the inner workings of arguably the most successful franchise in baseball. Not since Larry MacPhail in 1947 has a championship franchise parted ways with its top baseball executive so soon after a title, but what became clear over those conversations was Crane's willingness to meddle in baseball-operations decisions, much like the Dallas Cowboys owner who also serves as GM. It's a path certainly in Crane's purview as owner but rare among his peers in baseball -- and it suggests that Click's work always came with impediments.





Crane, sources said, felt coming into the 2022 season that the team needed more "baseball men" involved in operations decisions and invited Hall of Famers Jeff Bagwell and Reggie Jackson into the team's weekly senior baseball-operations meetings. Crane, sources said, killed an agreed-upon deal for Chicago Cubs catcher Willson Contreras at the trade deadline. Crane, sources said, this week personally negotiated the three-year, $34.5 million contract that brought reliever Rafael Montero back to the team -- a deal that was widely seen in the industry as a hefty price to give a 32-year-old with only one good full big league season.



It's a trend that began in February 2020, during the Astros' first press conference addressing the crisis-causing sign-stealing scandal, when Crane said he planned to be more hands-on with baseball operations. Crane had brought on Click and manager Dusty Baker after firing GM Jeff Luhnow and manager A.J. Hinch in the wake of the scandal.
What Crane had appreciated most about Luhnow was the conviction with which he made decisions, sources said. Crane appreciated, two sources familiar with his thinking said, the efficiency and ruthlessness of Luhnow's operation, seeing it was similar to how Crane ran his other businesses.
Over time, Crane would learn that was not Click's style. Though Click wasn't indecisive, he did not preen about with what one person deemed Luhnow's "institutional arrogance, which Jim actually thought was an admirable thing." Going to an ALCS in his first season and a World Series in his second bought Click little goodwill, and he came into the 2022 season in the final year of his contract and with support at the ownership level withering, sources said.
Disagreements over player evaluations furthered the chasm between the sides and further isolated Click. Baker was among those who convinced Crane to kill the trade that would have sent right-hander Jose Urquidy to the Cubs for Contreras. Bagwell, who "Jim might trust more than anyone," according to one source familiar with their relationship and corroborated by another, was critical of the Astros' player-development system, even as it was graduating eventual ALCS and World Series MVP Jeremy Peña. Jackson, who joined the Astros in May 2021 as an "executive assistant" despite never playing for the organization, yelled at members of the team's front office this year and later would apologize, according to sources.
Passan predicts the MLB offseason

As free agency officially begins, here are the names, teams and themes that will dominate the hot stove headlines.

Had the Astros lost in the postseason, Crane almost certainly would have fired Click before his contract expired Oct. 31. But they didn't lose. The team Click helped assemble -- the team he had stabilized in the aftermath of a scandal that left it tottering -- kept winning.
When Crane did discuss a contract with Click, between the team's championship parade and Click leaving for the GM meetings in Las Vegas, Crane offered him a perfunctory deal: one year with a minimal raise, according to sources. Compared to the contracts extended to Click's peers with similar resumes, the offer was seen by the industry as an insult. Click went to Las Vegas anyway, continuing to represent the organization, and said he was "optimistic" they would come to an agreement. Instead, three days later -- six days after he earned his first World Series ring -- he was out of a job, as was Scott Powers, one of the assistant GMs he hired this year. (Click declined to comment for this story, as did the Astros.)
For now, Crane has elevated new assistant general manager Bill Firkus, one of the highest-ranking officials left from the 2017 championship team sullied by sign stealing, to manage the day-to-day operations of inquiring about free agents and potential trades, according to teams speaking with the Astros. Firkus, along with Andrew Ball, one of Click's assistant GMs, and Charles Cook, whom Crane promoted to assistant GM earlier this week, remain. They are the braintrust, though multiple people in the organization fear their authority, like Click's, will be usurped by the former players to whom Crane regularly listens.
Internally, multiple names have surfaced for who could take over as general manager, from Baltimore assistant general manager Sig Mejdal (also a vital front-office member of the Astros during the Luhnow era) to recent Oakland A's bench coach Brad Ausmus (the former Astros catcher was in Houston on Friday, according to sources, and met with Bagwell, though it was unclear whether the possibility of Ausmus joining the front office was broached). David Stearns, a well-regarded former Astros assistant GM under Luhnow, resigned in October as president of baseball operations for the Milwaukee Brewers but plans to stay for the final year of his contract in an advisory capacity. "I'm just going to reiterate what I said previously: I'm not going anywhere," Stearns told MLB.com.
The notion of Crane turning his back on the quantitative analysis that underpinned Luhnow's decision-making strikes some Astros employees as biting the hand that feeds him, though Crane has suggested he's seeking more of a balance between scouting and statistics, sources said. Which of the reported candidates becomes the ultimate decision-maker in the baseball-operations department could foretell Crane's leanings there.
Mejdal was hired in 2012 as the Astros' director of decision sciences, a title that drew sneers at the time, but today illustrates how advanced the team was. A former NASA engineer, Mejdal is regarded as one of the smartest people in the game, adept at numbers and talking baseball. He joined former Astros scouting director Mike Elias, who went to run the Baltimore Orioles in 2018, as an assistant GM and has helped oversee the organization's transition from laughingstock to budding power.
Houston is your World Series champ!

The Astros capped off an incredible postseason run with their second title since 2017.

Whether or not Ausmus is ultimately a candidate, someone of his ilk -- a former player whose ability to grasp analytics makes him more suitable to the modern game -- could appeal to Crane. Ausmus, who has managed Detroit and the Los Angeles Angels, has expressed an openness toward potentially taking a front-office job in the right situation, according to sources. He previously served as a field executive with the San Diego Padres and a special assistant to the GM with the Angels.
If Crane does fill the job -- multiple people inside the Astros believe he could decide to run the team a la Jones -- the lessons are clear: The person needs to appeal to Crane's impulses, as Luhnow did more than Click. Crane, sources said, is a demanding boss -- generally in a good way.
"He gave us resources," one longtime Astros front-office member said, "and he expected us to do the right things with them."
The undercurrent of Crane's desire to be involved, however, especially took root three years ago and only increased during Click's tenure. Now, he has advisors. He has a group of subordinates to execute his decisions. And the clock on a hire is ticking, with free agency already underway, trades being discussed and the reality that a new GM might mean even more confusion for a front-office staff that's never quite sure who to believe.
So he could hire someone to do the job. Or he could follow the path of another Texas billionaire and do it himself. For all of Arte Moreno's intrusiveness with the Angels, all of Jeffrey Loria's prying with the Miami Marlins, the last baseball owner to so assert himself was George Steinbrenner with the New York Yankees, the archetypal organizational puppeteer. Crane is not there yet, but he's come closer than most. Like Jones and Steinbrenner, his thirst for winning has taken him to places others won't go.
Regardless of who takes over, the Click affair has proven one thing unequivocally: When it comes to who's running the Houston Astros, neither titles nor contracts matter. It is one person and one person only: Jim Crane.
https://ts.la/eric59704
jopatura
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AG
I get Crane is a successful businessman and hates losing, but if there was an absolute surefire way to build a World Series winning team year over year, someone would have figured out how by now. I get he's embarrassed we've had a few losses along the way, but none of the potential moves floated out from pre-2021 make it a guarantee that we win that World Series.

Blowing it all up to put Bagwell & Ausmus in charge reads like bad fanfiction from the beginning of the Millennium.

It's Crane's money to spend, but the Astros are already one of the more expensive teams to watch, especially in person. I hate to think what all this newfound spending is going to do to the average fan's ability to watch a game.

I didn't necessarily mind getting rid of Click - he never blew me away - but the articles that have come out are really making me think Crane is the problem and we're stuck with him.
Beat40
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jopatura said:

I get Crane is a successful businessman and hates losing, but if there was an absolute surefire way to build a World Series winning team year over year, someone would have figured out how by now. I get he's embarrassed we've had a few losses along the way, but none of the potential moves floated out from pre-2021 make it a guarantee that we win that World Series.

Blowing it all up to put Bagwell & Ausmus in charge reads like bad fanfiction from the beginning of the Millennium.

It's Crane's money to spend, but the Astros are already one of the more expensive teams to watch, especially in person. I hate to think what all this newfound spending is going to do to the average fan's ability to watch a game.

I didn't necessarily mind getting rid of Click - he never blew me away - but the articles that have come out are really making me think Crane is the problem and we're stuck with him.
Crane is like anyone else, you have to read him and play him the right way.

Lunhow could and Click couldn't. That's why Lunhow was able to go after the value and pick off the heap pile and Click was asked if he'd stake his employment on Jake Meyers.
fat girlfriend
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Passan writes Astros hit pieces for ESPN.

Here is one of his past hit pieces:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28477741/why-anger-boiling-scenes-houston-astros-sign-stealing-punishments
cone
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AG
Quote:

Passan is a tool
you're right on this

he's a massive tool

i wish i could read that astros loss in the WS post mortem he had to hit delete on
cone
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AG
you can go back further

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/27901119/the-houston-astros-denial-just-made-bad-situation-worse

he's a f***ing drama queen. a glorified HR lady.
Marvin
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I watched Passan on the field before WS G1. Pencil-neck geek that didn't really interact with anyone else. Nobody walked up to him and engaged in conversation. He's the introvert that thinks he's smarter than everyone else- you'll find him standing alone by the punch bowl while everyone else is on the dance floor.

I love Texas Aggie sports, but I love Texas A&M more.
cone
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AG
here's what i know

f*** the media. especially f*** the sports media.

they know nothing, they constantly lie, and their self-regard is hard to fathom.
cone
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AG
the way the world works now is those guys get promoted to the top

so adjust your expectations accordingly
BTKAG97
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BMX Bandit said:

thats how its seems to me also. he knows the window will close soon. win another one before that happens appears to be his goal.

Looks like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

If the Astros change philosophies in order to win another WS before their window closes may be the catalyst why the window closes.
MarathonAg12
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BMX Bandit
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iamtheglove said:

BMX Bandit said:

thats how its seems to me also. he knows the window will close soon. win another one before that happens appears to be his goal.
I don't understand why the window has to close. We have lots of under control young talent, including darn near a full staff of starters plus key pieces (Yordan, Peña) locked up for years to come. The beauty of the analytics based system Lunhow and Click ran was that we continued to identify and develop talent at a very high rate vs the industry. That was and still is the secret sauce to keeping the window open. If Crane is moving away from analytics that would be a big head scratcher for me.
I shouldn't say window close, more that this core will likely be done.

Bregman and Altuve have two years left, do both come back? Altuve will. What does that mean for Tucker?

Silent For Too Long
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Is this reality? Are we really wondering if the most successful owner in Houston sports history is the problem?

The same person who said the New York Yankees were, by themselves, the top tier of baseball 4 months ago is now saying other stupid *****

That's it. That's all this is. We will be fine.
Texaggie7nine
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Quote:

When it comes to who's running the Houston Astros, neither titles nor contracts matter. It is one person and one person only: Jim Crane.
The funny thing is, when he writes things like this, he is only setting up Crane to take more credit for all the success.

I think Crane has earned enough credit, at this point, to say that although he is a stubborn owner, he listens to the right people.
7nine
Marvin
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AG
cone said:

the way the world works now is those guys get promoted to the top

so adjust your expectations accordingly

Hey, no perspective needed here. We are dogpiling!
I love Texas Aggie sports, but I love Texas A&M more.
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