****ing hell

Good luck recovering from this you pieces of ***** Players and owners alike. With the economy the way it is, and these shenanigans baseball just pulled. Hope it ****s the whole game up.

The NFL salary cap in 2022 will be $208 million with a roster that is twice the size. Kind of an amazing comparison relative to the MLB CBT

For pre arb players, everyone getting a 25% salary increase and the top 150 getting a 60% (150 player $30 mill bonus pool) seems like it would be tough to turn down. And on CBT, there's maybe 5 teams that are over or near the current one. With the rest, it doesn't really seem to matter. I don't see the allure of missing April paychecks over this outside of this being some d*** waving contest where you want to feel like u won. The owners aren't going to agree to a bonus pool that is dang near like adding another team's payroll to the league

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I don't see the allure of missing April paychecks over this outside of this being some d*** waving contest where you want to feel like u won. The owners aren't going to agree to a bonus pool that is dang near like adding another team's payroll to the league

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This

The owners have all the leverage. They'll happily forgo April and May gate in exchange for not paying player salaries.

Not a fan of Manfred and think the idea of a lockout was terrible as this seems like a completely unnecessary stoppage when they could re-rack 2021, but at this point with the offers on the table from each side, the owners side is the one that seems most reasonable from my outsider layman view

The owners should make the players eat their words. Raise the minimum salary to $1MM and make the CBT $180MM. It isn't about the vets, it is about the young guys, right? The players want it both ways. Can't have it.

This sucks!

BOOOO0000oooo!

Saw on twitter both sides agree to:
1) pitch clocks
2) banning the shift
3) bigger bases

I consider myself a baseball guy. Played competitively, umpired competitively also, and I've gotta say I never knew the base size was a problem. How much bigger do they need to be to give the runner a half-step advantage? Another 6-10 inches? Is this essentially saying bases will now be 89 feet or am I missing another grievance?

Ags #1 said:

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Are they really talking about banning the shift?

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Right!?! The shift has been used forever. It just goes in and out of style. It's in style right now is all…

And bigger bases? Wtf?!?! That's just dumb…

I used to be against banning the shift, but actually wouldn't mind it now. The advent of technology/high speed cameras have benefitted pitching much more than hitting.

Dumb people will say gO tHe OtHeR wAy. Okay, that was fine when the average fastball was 92mph. Now you have sliders coming in at 98.

Historically I would have been against it. But the game is becoming a boring train wreck.

Robot umpires and pitch clocks aren't the answer either.

Analytics is what has made baseball boring and slow.

Funny how the game was just fine for the last 120 years, but when Manturd steps in, it becomes boring and in need of change.

I'd assume the larger bases are due to replay making "staying safe on the bag" after a slide significantly harder than it used to be.

Nitro Power said:

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Robot umpires and pitch clocks aren't the answer either.

Analytics is what has made baseball boring and slow.

Funny how the game was just fine for the last 120 years, but when Manturd steps in, it becomes boring and in need of change.

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How has analytics made it slower? Watch any older game from the 70s or 80s. The pitchers get the ball and throw it right back and batters stay in the box. That speeds up the game. Pitch clock helps that.

Robo umps would eliminate arguing balls and strikes and speed up the game.

So would giving the pitcher and catcher a headset to communicate. No more switching up signs and causing delays and confusion.

Nitro Power said:

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Robot umpires and pitch clocks aren't the answer either.

Analytics is what has made baseball boring and slow.

Funny how the game was just fine for the last 120 years, but when Manturd steps in, it becomes boring and in need of change.

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That is a screaming hot take.

Quad Dog said:

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Nitro Power said:

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Robot umpires and pitch clocks aren't the answer either.

Analytics is what has made baseball boring and slow.

Funny how the game was just fine for the last 120 years, but when Manturd steps in, it becomes boring and in need of change.

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How has analytics made it slower? Watch any older game from the 70s or 80s. The pitchers get the ball and throw it right back and batters stay in the box. That speeds up the game. Pitch clock helps that.

Robo umps would eliminate arguing balls and strikes and speed up the game.

So would giving the pitcher and catcher a headset to communicate. No more switching up signs and causing delays and confusion.

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I have watched games where they change the shift in the middle of an at bat. It could be player placement, or it could be completely having players change position. Do you think this is based on a "feel for the game"? No, it is based on percentages of balls put in play. How does this not have an impact? Further, the lefty, righty nonsense was based on analytics. Now, in fairness, they have rectified that to an extent, but it changes the overall strategy of the game.

You refer to pitchers and catchers communication. Again, was not a problem from the past 120 years.

The fact of the matter is, pitch clocks, banning the shift, robot umpires et al, are only going to make incremental changes. Like 5-10 minute / game max.

If you want to make a significant impact, limit advertising and get rid of replay except in the case of fair foul or homeruns.

ETA: Analytics like WAR. is the kind of nonsense that leads people like Jason Heyward getting $184M contracts. Does anyone really believe he justified 25% of that contract based on just his defense?

Imagine this guy with bigger bases... pic.twitter.com/AoXcQLOUUd

— S FORBES (@BigBhoyShane) March 7, 2022

Nitro Power said:

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Quad Dog said:

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Nitro Power said:

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Robot umpires and pitch clocks aren't the answer either.

Analytics is what has made baseball boring and slow.

Funny how the game was just fine for the last 120 years, but when Manturd steps in, it becomes boring and in need of change.

---

How has analytics made it slower? Watch any older game from the 70s or 80s. The pitchers get the ball and throw it right back and batters stay in the box. That speeds up the game. Pitch clock helps that.

Robo umps would eliminate arguing balls and strikes and speed up the game.

So would giving the pitcher and catcher a headset to communicate. No more switching up signs and causing delays and confusion.

---

I have watched games where they change the shift in the middle of an at bat. It could be player placement, or it could be completely having players change position. Do you think this is based on a "feel for the game"? No, it is based on percentages of balls put in play. How does this not have an impact? Further, the lefty, righty nonsense was based on analytics. Now, in fairness, they have rectified that to an extent, but it changes the overall strategy of the game.

You refer to pitchers and catchers communication. Again, was not a problem from the past 120 years.

The fact of the matter is, pitch clocks, banning the shift, robot umpires et al, are only going to make incremental changes. Like 5-10 minute / game max.

If you want to make a significant impact, limit advertising and get rid of replay except in the case of fair foul or homeruns.

ETA: Analytics like WAR. is the kind of nonsense that leads people like Jason Heyward getting $184M contracts. Does anyone really believe he justified 25% of that contract based on just his defense?

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Players have always changed positions during at bats, but it is more extreme now more than ever. I don't think I've ever heard anyone suggest limiting shifts to help pace of play. The arguments for banning shifts is always about improving offense. I don't think shifts are huge deal for pace of play.

It seems like sign stealing has become a much bigger deal the last few years than ever before, so pitchers and catchers have adjusted by changing and complicating signs. I feel like whenever a runner reaches second the pace of play grinds to a halt as pitchers and catchers change up signs, refer to cheat seats, and have to visit the mound to clarify.

Advertising isn't going anywhere. Would you trade uniform ads for less commercial breaks?

I agree, no replay. Or at least take out manager challenges. Every questionable play we have to wait for the manager holding up play while his review teams looks at the play, then he walks over to the ump to challenge, who then walks over to the headset. That headset review takes forever. Then they announce the decision and the losing manager walks over to the ump for an explanation and possibly an argument. There should just be an extra ump in a review booth who has the ability to buzz the ump and a then a short amount of time to correct obvious plays.

You could make the bases rectangles instead of squares. They could still be the same distance apart, but have more space into foul territory or the outfield. This would make things safer for shortstops and second basemen turning two.

Good idea…

MLB’s proposal, sources tell me and @Ken_Rosenthal:

• Luxury tax thresholds: 230, 232, 236, 240, 242⁰
• Prearb pool: 40m, flat over time
• Pool counts against CBT (1.33m per team)
•Minimum salary: 700, 715, 730, 750, 770

(cont’d)

— Evan Drellich (@EvanDrellich) March 9, 2022

A big issue, sources tell me and @Ken_Rosenthal: MLB wants to add a new surchage level to the luxury tax. Right now, there are three levels: base, first surcharge, and second surcharge. Now MLB wants to put in a third to deter owners who have a mind to spend well above the pack.

— Evan Drellich (@EvanDrellich) March 9, 2022

Another major part of MLB’s proposal: MLB is tying removal of the qualifying offer to instituting an international draft.

— Evan Drellich (@EvanDrellich) March 9, 2022

The players would be idiots to give up paychecks fighting that offer

So are we going to have 7 circles on the field where each player has to be positioned when a pitch is thrown.

International draft “non-starter” for Latin players and might not be acceptable to union even with major MLB give, sources tell @TheAthletic. Union in latest proposal still wants qualifying offer eliminated, as well as higher CBT thresholds and pre-arb pool than MLB has offered.

— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) March 9, 2022

Source: MLBPA proposal today moved to $65 million on prearbitration pool and $232m, $235m, $240m, $245m, $250m on CBT thresholds over the deal.

— Evan Drellich (@EvanDrellich) March 9, 2022

Quad Dog said:

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Nitro Power said:

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Robot umpires and pitch clocks aren't the answer either.

Analytics is what has made baseball boring and slow.

Funny how the game was just fine for the last 120 years, but when Manturd steps in, it becomes boring and in need of change.

---

How has analytics made it slower? Watch any older game from the 70s or 80s. The pitchers get the ball and throw it right back and batters stay in the box. That speeds up the game. Pitch clock helps that.

Robo umps would eliminate arguing balls and strikes and speed up the game.

So would giving the pitcher and catcher a headset to communicate. No more switching up signs and causing delays and confusion.

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It would just transfer it to conspiracy theories about MLB favoring the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, or whatever other favored team out there is.

I don't know why people can't see this. There is NO WAY you're going to eliminate arguments about calls. If the call goes against a team, they aren't going to like it. It doesn't matter if it comes from a computer or not. We already have unbiased sources out there, and people claim they are incompetent. Put competent sources out there and people will say they're biased.

MLB has canceled more games, pushing Opening Day to April 14. The players rejected MLB’s options, and sent back a counter proposal. That counter was not enough to convince owners not to bring down more games.

— Evan Drellich (@EvanDrellich) March 9, 2022