New Cheating Allegations - Beltre, Utley, Judge, Royals, Yankees, Dodgers, Rangers

10,871 Views | 71 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by AustinCountyAg
TarponChaser
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9:07a, 6/17/21
Neither the Red Sox nor Yankees received any real punishment beyond a slap on the wrist.

And the Cardinals guy went to jail because he committed a felony by hacking the Astros computers. It wasn't baseball that punished him.
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PatAg
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9:11a, 6/17/21
AG
I think it would have helped if so many of the Astro's players/coaching/ownership hadn't been so adamant that they didn't cheat, and condescending about it.

I think most real baseball fans know every team is cheating to some degree. I don't think stealing signs is cheating, as long as you aren't using off the field stuff in real time.
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Deluxe
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In reply to PatAg • 9:21a, 6/17/21
AG
PatAg said:
I think it would have helped if so many of the Astro's players/coaching/ownership hadn't been so adamant that they didn't cheat, and condescending about it.

I think most real baseball fans know every team is cheating to some degree. I don't think stealing signs is cheating, as long as you aren't using off the field stuff in real time.

What condescending cheating denials are you referring to?
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DrZ
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9:23a, 6/17/21
AG
MLB protects certain organizations. That is without question. Just because that received "a slap on the wrist" doesn't mean they didn't cheat.
The cardinals committed a felony in the process of cheating. If the Astros had committed crimes they would be in jail.

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1876er
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9:33a, 6/17/21
AG
Wasn't it known that other teams were stealing signs, and sometime in 2017 or 2018 MLB sent a letter telling teams to stop, and the Astros continued? Isn't that why they were punished so severely?
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Deluxe
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In reply to 1876er • 9:42a, 6/17/21
AG
1876er said:
Wasn't it known that other teams were stealing signs, and sometime in 2017 or 2018 MLB sent a letter telling teams to stop, and the Astros continued? Isn't that why they were punished so severely?

As an Astros fan, I do wonder if the penalty was more based on the egregiousness of the offense or the evidence/testimony that we continued doing it after the memo. From Manfred's perspective I think it was more the latter. But from a "hypocritical baseball community outrage" perspective, I think it was more the former.
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htxag09
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In reply to 1876er • 9:45a, 6/17/21
AG
Maybe. But the memo was sent out because of what the Red Sox and Yankees were caught doing. The Red Sox kept doing it and got caught the year after the Astros. They got a lighter punishment from MLB (their case wasn't as extensive) and a pass in the media.

Hell, you have players from that Red Sox team throwing at Astros players and being applauded for it.
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Wabs
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In reply to 1876er • 9:48a, 6/17/21
AG
1876er said:
Wasn't it known that other teams were stealing signs, and sometime in 2017 or 2018 MLB sent a letter telling teams to stop, and the Astros continued? Isn't that why they were punished so severely?
Did MLB know other teams were doing it? If so, how did they know? Did they do intensive investigations of each of those teams? If they did, where are the detailed reports of who did what?
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safety guy
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10:04a, 6/17/21
AG
To me the Astros were scapegoated by baseball because there was clear evidence that they broke rules. mlb did not want to go to the extreme and find out the extent or publish the extent of the types of rule breaking in the league because it would damage whatever integrity they had. So they hit the Astros with a severe punishment as a threat to other teams to stop. And, oh well it's just the Astros so not a big deal to mlb. No way would they hit the Yankees, Dodgers or Red Sox with that type of punishment. That's why it was funny that the angels clubhouse guy got in trouble for the substance given to other teams pitchers. Stuff like this is rampant in the sport and has always been.
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bek.90
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In reply to Wabs • 10:09a, 6/17/21
AG
Wabs said:
1876er said:
Wasn't it known that other teams were stealing signs, and sometime in 2017 or 2018 MLB sent a letter telling teams to stop, and the Astros continued? Isn't that why they were punished so severely?
Did MLB know other teams were doing it? If so, how did they know? Did they do intensive investigations of each of those teams? If they did, where are the detailed reports of who did what?
Did MLB know other teams were doing it? - Absolutely, without question.
If so, how did they know? - Through their own (MLB) investigation.
Did they do intensive investigations of each of those teams? - Yes, to the point that they know details on how each team was cheating, and when they were doing it.
If they did, where are the detailed reports of who did what? - A detailed report was sent to EVERY MLB team. Teams were ordered to keep the reports secret, and not make details public. Consequences of doing so would lead to heavy fines and possibly banishment from MLB for anyone making the report public or revealing details.
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Ag_07
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10:10a, 6/17/21
AG
If the Astros wouldn't have won the WS in 2017 it wouldn't have been a big deal to anyone.

The only reason it blew up into whatnot did both with fans and MLB is because they were winning too much.
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Wabs
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In reply to bek.90 • 11:18a, 6/17/21
AG
bek.90 said:
Wabs said:
1876er said:
Wasn't it known that other teams were stealing signs, and sometime in 2017 or 2018 MLB sent a letter telling teams to stop, and the Astros continued? Isn't that why they were punished so severely?
Did MLB know other teams were doing it? If so, how did they know? Did they do intensive investigations of each of those teams? If they did, where are the detailed reports of who did what?
Did MLB know other teams were doing it? - Absolutely, without question.
If so, how did they know? - Through their own (MLB) investigation.
Did they do intensive investigations of each of those teams? - Yes, to the point that they know details on how each team was cheating, and when they were doing it.
If they did, where are the detailed reports of who did what? - A detailed report was sent to EVERY MLB team. Teams were ordered to keep the reports secret, and not make details public. Consequences of doing so would lead to heavy fines and possibly banishment from MLB for anyone making the report public or revealing details.
Interesting.
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Farmer1906
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11:54a, 6/17/21
AG
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wangus12
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In reply to Wabs • 12:00p, 6/17/21
AG
I wanna say there is a judge up in the NE that is trying to get a court order to open the letter/report for the Yankees
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Wabs
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In reply to wangus12 • 12:13p, 6/17/21
AG
wangus12 said:
I wanna say there is a judge up in the NE that is trying to get a court order to open the letter/report for the Yankees
Yes, but it's obvious MLB is ok with the Astros being the scapegoat. You can damn sure bet if it was NY/LA/BOS, their fans would be demanding that all reports be released (and MLB would comply).
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Fat Bib Fortuna
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12:55p, 6/17/21
AG
Leagues are always going to find a scapegoat that doesn't upset too many people.

Think about the NCAA in the 1980s - who got the death penalty? Friggin' SMU. You telling me Miami and Oklahoma weren't cheating as badly as SMU? But you can't burn your giant fan bases, so you find a nice mid-level scapegoat, bury them, and move on, content that you've served "justice."
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Farmer1906
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1:02p, 6/17/21
AG
Welp

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Fat Bib Fortuna
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 1:04p, 6/17/21
AG
Farmer1906 said:
Welp

What a moron.
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Marvin
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1:06p, 6/17/21
AG
Getting sued into oblivion can definitely change your risk/reward analysis.
I love Texas Aggie sports, but I love Texas A&M more.
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JWinTX
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In reply to Fat Bib Fortuna • 1:17p, 6/17/21
Fat Bib Fortuna said:
Leagues are always going to find a scapegoat that doesn't upset too many people.

Think about the NCAA in the 1980s - who got the death penalty? Friggin' SMU. You telling me Miami and Oklahoma weren't cheating as badly as SMU? But you can't burn your giant fan bases, so you find a nice mid-level scapegoat, bury them, and move on, content that you've served "justice."
Its off-topic a bit, but this is what I will never understand about the NCAA not crushing Baylor. They are a pissant, but a big enough name to just absolutely crush into oblivion. Baylor has no power future when the Big XII falls apart, so this would have made them the perfect NCAA pinata...
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safety guy
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1:25p, 6/17/21
AG
It's almost like wrestling 30 years ago. Most people could see that things were scripted and predetermined but few on the inside wanted to go on the record because it might impact the business. Well, you can get the idea in baseball that rules are being bent, broken and stomped on all over the place but few want to come out and be on the record. Camaniti was vilified over his steroids article. It was telling that Verlander just smiled last year when the whole story was breaking almost indicating that this stuff was commonplace in the league.
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BMX Bandit
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In reply to Marvin • 1:36p, 6/17/21
Marvin said:
Getting sued into oblivion can definitely change your risk/reward analysis.
he didn't take anything back, did he? anyone that was going to sue him into oblivion still can (no one is)
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PatAg
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In reply to Deluxe • 1:38p, 6/17/21
AG
Deluxe said:
PatAg said:
I think it would have helped if so many of the Astro's players/coaching/ownership hadn't been so adamant that they didn't cheat, and condescending about it.

I think most real baseball fans know every team is cheating to some degree. I don't think stealing signs is cheating, as long as you aren't using off the field stuff in real time.

What condescending cheating denials are you referring to?
The manager
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PatAg
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 1:39p, 6/17/21
AG
Farmer1906 said:
Welp

I assumed this a meme apology, where it was a direct quote of someone that got cheating previously.
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Marvin
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In reply to BMX Bandit • 2:24p, 6/17/21
AG
BMX Bandit said:
Marvin said:
Getting sued into oblivion can definitely change your risk/reward analysis.
he didn't take anything back, did he? anyone that was going to sue him into oblivion still can (no one is)

I guess we didn't read the same tweet, if it was real.
I love Texas Aggie sports, but I love Texas A&M more.
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wangus12
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 3:19p, 6/17/21
AG
Farmer1906 said:
Welp

Lol MLB lawyers lining up and breaking out the muzzle
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DeangeloVickers
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11:04p, 6/17/21
AG
MLB owners have appointed just complete jackasses (manfred, vincent, and Selig) to run the game and this is what you get/see/deserve



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WestTexasAg
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In reply to option short side • 8:13a, 6/19/21
AG
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Farmer1906
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 11:34a, 3/21/22
AG
Maybe a little bump to the top.






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BCSGrubber
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11:41a, 3/21/22
AG
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Farmer1906
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11:42a, 3/21/22
AG
Since the tweet is now deleted - the accusation against the Yankees was that they had cameras in LF, CF, & RF getting the pitcher's grip. He then showed Judge's home/away splits of about ~230 OPS points better at home. He also said Houston got their sign-stealing methods from Beltran who was in Texas & New York.
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Moe Jzyslak
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11:55a, 3/21/22
AG
Spaeder got buried for his tweets a year ago and he really hasn't been the same content-wise since that happened. Sucked to see it happen for him telling the truth.

He's pretty well connected to some players, and I trust him more than I trust the majority of the BBWAA.
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cone
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 12:35p, 3/21/22
AG
Quote:
He also said Houston got their sign-stealing methods from Beltran who was in Texas & New York.
that's got to be completely obvious at this point

Beltran got to Houston, saw their set-up and was like

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TarponChaser
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12:36p, 3/21/22
The letter 100% needs to be made public.

If for no other reason than to confirm what anybody with a shred of honesty and intelligence knows- using tech to steal signals and relay to hitters was completely rampant in MLB and to assert the Astros were the lone bad guys or gained any real advantage from it, when everybody was doing it, is absolutely absurd.
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dixichkn
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12:25a, 4/5/22
AG
Except you know good and well with the Yankees involved (or Dodgers/Cubs/Sox for that matter)…….that letter will never see the light of day. I'll believe it when I see it. Sacred cows are sacred cows and are to be treated as such.
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