Luhnow and Linch Suspended 1 year

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mazag08
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2:35p, 1/13/20
AG
Just want everyone on this board to know..

1. As an Astros fan this sucks.
2. We cheated. I do not support cheating.
3. Crane did the right thing.
4. Luhnow will be missed. This was inexcusable, but he is still unreplaceable.
5. I have no shame in still supporting the Astros. The fans did nothing wrong, and its still our city and still our team. Time to make things right and try and win the right way.
6. We were not the only ones doing this, and I'd be willing to bet there are teams (Red Sox) that took it to another level.
7. This sucks.
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Scoopen Skwert
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2:35p, 1/13/20
AG
Isn't stealing signs one of those things you do in baseball?

Like the well deserved **** you pitch.
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Marvin
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In reply to mazag08 • 2:36p, 1/13/20
AG
mazag08 said:
Just want everyone on this board to know..

1. As an Astros fan this sucks.
2. We cheated. I do not support cheating.
3. Crane did the right thing.
4. Luhnow will be missed. This was inexcusable, but he is still unreplaceable.
5. I have no shame in still supporting the Astros. The fans did nothing wrong, and its still our city and still our team. Time to make things right and try and win the right way.
6. We were not the only ones doing this, and I'd be willing to bet there are teams (Red Sox) that took it to another level.
7. This sucks.

Preach.
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Keeper of The Spirits
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2:37p, 1/13/20
AG
So you think the commish who serves at the pleasure of the owners was going to punish an owner when there are more teams still being investigated. I don't think so Kevin.

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Keeper of The Spirits
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2:38p, 1/13/20
AG
Also sign stealing technology or otherwise is not cheating, its gamesmanship. Don't @ me


Also Astros by 10 games over the Rangers this year

Finally, if the asterick isn't actually in the book its technically not an asterick
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diehard03
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In reply to mazag08 • 2:38p, 1/13/20
You left out whether you acknowledge (and I guess to what level) the 2017 championship
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07ag
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In reply to mazag08 • 2:41p, 1/13/20
AG
mazag08 said:
Just want everyone on this board to know..

1. As an Astros fan this sucks.
2. We cheated. I do not support cheating.
3. Crane did the right thing.
4. Luhnow will be missed. This was inexcusable, but he is still unreplaceable.
5. I have no shame in still supporting the Astros. The fans did nothing wrong, and its still our city and still our team. Time to make things right and try and win the right way.
6. We were not the only ones doing this, and I'd be willing to bet there are teams (Red Sox) that took it to another level.
7. This sucks.
agreed
https://ts.la/eric59704
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Ag12thman
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In reply to mazag08 • 2:43p, 1/13/20
AG
mazag08 said:
Just want everyone on this board to know..

1. As an Astros fan this sucks.
2. We cheated. I do not support cheating.
3. Crane did the right thing.
4. Luhnow will be missed. This was inexcusable, but he is still unreplaceable.
5. I have no shame in still supporting the Astros. The fans did nothing wrong, and its still our city and still our team. Time to make things right and try and win the right way.
6. We were not the only ones doing this, and I'd be willing to bet there are teams (Red Sox) that took it to another level.
7. This sucks.
Well said.
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DrZ
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2:43p, 1/13/20
AG
Jim Crane is a morally bankrupt human. He has a long history immoral/illegal behavior. Please do not be fooled by this show.
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mazag08
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In reply to diehard03 • 2:43p, 1/13/20
AG
diehard03 said:
You left out whether you acknowledge (and I guess to what level) the 2017 championship
Absolutely.

We were the best team in the league on the road that year.
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hph6203
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In reply to Keeper of The Spirits • 2:45p, 1/13/20
AG
Keeper of The Spirits said:
Also sign stealing technology or otherwise is not cheating, its gamesmanship. Don't @ me


Also Astros by 10 games over the Rangers this year

Finally, if the asterick isn't actually in the book its technically not an asterick
Sign stealing with a runner on base is gamesmanship and within the culture of baseball, sign stealing without a man on and acquiring the information with technology absolutely is not. It's why there are complaints about sign stealing every year and people shrug their shoulders, but with this they lost their coach, gm, picks, and money.
.
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Player To Be Named Later
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In reply to Scoopen Skwert • 2:46p, 1/13/20
AG
bh93 said:
Isn't stealing signs one of those things you do in baseball?

Like the well deserved **** you pitch.


I have no problem with sign stealing if it's a guy on the field.. . But what Houston did is bush league.

Letting a guy on 2nd steal your signs is your fault. A non player with binoculars/etc is different
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Marvin
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In reply to DrZ • 2:46p, 1/13/20
AG
DrZ said:
Jim Crane is a morally bankrupt human. He has a long history immoral/illegal behavior. Please do not be fooled by this show.

I've heard the same from first-hand sources and family members... but, truth can be a slippery beast to measure.
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amercer
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In reply to DrZ • 2:48p, 1/13/20
AG
DrZ said:
Jim Crane is a morally bankrupt human. He has a long history immoral/illegal behavior. Please do not be fooled by this show.


Lots of people get accused of war profiteering....

Team should still contend for a couple more years though
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wbt5845
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2:48p, 1/13/20
AG
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Tom Hagen
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2:49p, 1/13/20
AG
Crane is an Obama butt sniffing pos. Hinch and Luhnow will be kicking the Astros ass with the Angels in 2021.
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DrZ
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2:52p, 1/13/20
AG
Look for
1) Brent Strom to retire
2) Cranes son to take Luhnows job
3) Verlander and/or Grienke to retire "i dont need this foolishness"
4) Lets hear what Nolan has to say. We know he cant stand Crane

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Know Your Enemy
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In reply to Scoopen Skwert • 2:54p, 1/13/20
AG
bh93 said:
Isn't stealing signs one of those things you do in baseball?

Like the well deserved **** you pitch.
Sign #1 that you've never played the game.
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McInnis
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In reply to mazag08 • 2:56p, 1/13/20
AG
mazag08 said:
Just want everyone on this board to know..

1. As an Astros fan this sucks.
2. We cheated. I do not support cheating.
3. Crane did the right thing.
4. Luhnow will be missed. This was inexcusable, but he is still unreplaceable.
5. I have no shame in still supporting the Astros. The fans did nothing wrong, and its still our city and still our team. Time to make things right and try and win the right way.
6. We were not the only ones doing this, and I'd be willing to bet there are teams (Red Sox) that took it to another level.
7. This sucks.
As someone who has been an Astros fan since Sonny Jackson was their shortstop I agree with everything except for maybe no. 4. Not sure Luhnow can be replaced with anyone near his level of performance.
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AustinCountyAg
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2:59p, 1/13/20
Crane's son will not be in charge of the baseball roster. He is there to take Reid's place.
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DTP02
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3:01p, 1/13/20
AG
I'm not a huge MLB guy until the playoffs but I follow and root for both the Astros and Rangers (yes, it's possible, although it used to be easier when they were in different leagues). Thought I should get that out of the way before I ask my questions:

I've heard that the Astros road record was better than their home record (I think I heard that this was true in both 2017 and 2019), is this true? If this isn't true you can disregard the rest of this post.

If the Astros had a better road vs home record,, is there any allegation that the Astros were cheating on the road as well?

If they weren't cheating on the road, is there some other explanation (this seems unlikely) that would explain the road vs home discrepancy and also suggest that it would have been even more pronounced if not for the cheating at home?

If there isn't some explanation for the discrepancy in terms of how the roster was set up or something, then it looks like the Astros either didn't benefit significantly from the cheating, or were even hurt by the cheating. I could see it being a detriment if the hitters were distracted from their routines by listening for the bangs or whatever.

If the Astros didn't benefit from the cheating, then I don't see that the asterisk talk is justified. Punish them for attempting to cheat and gain an advantage, but if they didn't actually gain an advantage then the team's accomplishment isn't sullied at all.
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DrZ
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3:03p, 1/13/20
AG
Read the report.

I will assume it is accurate. This entire thing was done by players and then assistant coach Cora. The only player named was Carlos Beltran.
I assume Cora will be gone and Carlos Beltran will be fired as Mets coach.
It says Luhnow didn't know but should have. AJ should have stopped it but had nothing to do with the creation and implementation of the scheme.

Crane did the wrong thing
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Scoopen Skwert
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In reply to Know Your Enemy • 3:09p, 1/13/20
AG
Junkhead said:
bh93 said:
Isn't stealing signs one of those things you do in baseball?

Like the well deserved **** you pitch.
Sign #1 that you've never played the game.

Past high school no unless you count men's adult leagues.
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diehard03
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In reply to mazag08 • 3:10p, 1/13/20
Quote:
Quote:
diehard03 said:
You left out whether you acknowledge (and I guess to what level) the 2017 championship
Absolutely.

We were the best team in the league on the road that year.

Ah, so you don't really believe point 2 then.
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Bubba smollett
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In reply to wbt5845 • 3:11p, 1/13/20
wbt5845 said:
WTF is this supposed to be stick to marching band gayness and soliciting for camp gladiator
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Cromagnum
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In reply to Bones08 • 3:12p, 1/13/20
AG
Bones08 said:
diehard03 said:

Quote:
If it helped lead to a World Series, where do I sign up?

Yes, it's awesome to have a disclaimer mentioned every time someone references that championship going forward.

I would have thought that Houston fans would understand this, with their "Jordanless era" titles.
Championships are awesome. Championships with disclaimers are also awesome.


Right. Example:

Astros, 2017 WS Champs*

* Rangers did not appear in post-season.
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South Platte
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In reply to wbt5845 • 3:14p, 1/13/20
wbt5845 said:
This doesn't make any sense. Make one with the H behind a bunch of vertical, thin, black bars.
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wbt5845
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In reply to South Platte • 3:17p, 1/13/20
AG
South Platte said:
wbt5845 said:
This doesn't make any sense. Make one with the H behind a bunch of vertical, thin, black bars.
That's an asterisk behind the H
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Tyrone_The_Tuna
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3:20p, 1/13/20
AG
So what's going to happen with Cora?
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diehard03
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3:20p, 1/13/20
Quote:
It says Luhnow didn't know but should have. AJ should have stopped it but had nothing to do with the creation and implementation of the scheme.

Crane did the wrong thing

This is crazy and something only if it happens to "your team" do people believe.
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Bones08
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In reply to Tyrone_The_Tuna • 3:23p, 1/13/20
AG
I'm willing to bet it's more than a year. Maybe 3 years. Maybe a life-time if MLB really wants to make an example (and since the MLB seems to be handcuffed by the MLBPA in punishing the involved players).

There's a chance he doesn't survive the day as Red Sox manager but I imagine that Boston may have to wait for the MLB to conclude their part before they can take action.
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DrZ
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In reply to diehard03 • 3:30p, 1/13/20
AG
I am not saying I believe it, I am saying thats what the report says. Can we make up and insert other stuff as well.
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diehard03
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3:38p, 1/13/20
Quote:
I've heard that the Astros road record was better than their home record (I think I heard that this was true in both 2017 and 2019), is this true? If this isn't true you can disregard the rest of this post.

If the Astros had a better road vs home record,, is there any allegation that the Astros were cheating on the road as well?

If they weren't cheating on the road, is there some other explanation (this seems unlikely) that would explain the road vs home discrepancy and also suggest that it would have been even more pronounced if not for the cheating at home?

If there isn't some explanation for the discrepancy in terms of how the roster was set up or something, then it looks like the Astros either didn't benefit significantly from the cheating, or were even hurt by the cheating. I could see it being a detriment if the hitters were distracted from their routines by listening for the bangs or whatever.

If the Astros didn't benefit from the cheating, then I don't see that the asterisk talk is justified. Punish them for attempting to cheat and gain an advantage, but if they didn't actually gain an advantage then the team's accomplishment isn't sullied at all.

You can't assume that everything was going to play out the exact same if you removed the cheating. We don't know how many games would have swung away from them. You could have knock-on effects:

Pitcher gets rocked in Houston. Pitcher then goes against Houston at home does poorly because he remembers the bad outing in Houston.

Now, I am not saying the entire road record is due to this. Their players were really good even without the cheating. But we are questioning the validity of a championship if teams were a disadvantage...even if only a psychological one.
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diehard03
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3:39p, 1/13/20
Quote:
I am not saying I believe it, I am saying thats what the report says. Can we make up and insert other stuff as well.

You don't believe the report, or you don't believe that they should be fired for failing to doing the right thing?
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The Shank Ag
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3:45p, 1/13/20
Ugh, Houston sports fans could seriously be some of the best in the realm of pro sports if they got rid of the whiny, conspiratorial, victim mentality too many of them espouse.
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